Post: #1

So, I`ve been doing a lot of research lately on antioxidants, trying to find the best health promoting, life extending and disease/cancer preventing substance there is out there. I have a background in molecular biology, and anti aging is sort of my main interest. Anyway, having tried a lot of different supplements over the years, I must say that most of them have been a disappointment. I try to get most of my nutrients from actual food these days, as well as sunlight. This implies a nutrient dense Paleo diet for the most part. I also see good health more and more as a consequence of avoiding what is detrimental, rather than always adding something. (Magic pill) But at the same time I realize that even if you have the "perfect" diet there will still be a basal rate of ageing. To get further from this point things like telomerase inducers and gene therapy is needed. But in the mean time antioxidants can help a lot.


   
Green tea. Pleasant medicine.


I was really into astaxanthin for a long time, and probably read half the studies on pubmed on it. A lot of indication it does wonders in vitro and in mice models etc. But like many other supplements I`ve used, when you actually try them in real life it`s hard to notice any effect. Of course you could argue that only long term use will yield results. (Like in decades.) But I also, even though I always do my homework thoroughly, like to actually notice a positive difference in whatever biomarker you`re monitoring. Of the things I`ve tried over the years I must say that for now, only organic green tea, high quality Antarctic krill oil, (contains astaxanthin that protects lipids from oxidation, unlike cod liver oil) and pastured desiccated beef liver/organs have stuck with me.

So why is green tea the best antioxidant currently available? It`s basically the combination of tons of studies proving it`s effectiveness, coupled with no known side effects. (More on that later.)

Green tea and Cancer

Cancer is caused by mutations, and what causes mutations is oxidative damage from many different sources. Poor diet, smoking, alcohol, radiation etc. Also short telomeres as a consequence of cell division gives rise to mutations. So anything you can do to avoid mutations is a good thing. The main antioxidant in tea, and particularly green tea is Epigallocatechin gallate. (EGCG) EGCG turns out to be a very efficient molecule when it comes to neutralizing free radicals, both on it`s own, and by stimulating the cells own antioxidant functions (enzymes etc.) I always try to find meta-data (analysis of all studies done on a certain topic) when it`s available, since it`s sort of the gold standard in science. Here`s just a couple of many done on green tea and cancer;

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28095030
"The summary relative risk for the highest consumption (≥5 cups/day) of green tea on liver cancer incidence compared with nondrinkers was 0.62"
In other words, drinking 5 cups or more of green tea a day reduced the risk of liver cancer with a very substantial 38 percent.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5380255/
This meta-analysis looked at prostate cancer (PC) which is particularly interesting, both since it`s the second most common diagnosed cancer over all, and also because there might be a connection between caffeine/coffee and PC. Green tea of course contains caffeine, but in small amounts compared to coffee. Anyway the study indicated a linear and inverse relationship between cups of green tea a day and risk of PC. "
"Our dose–response meta-analysis further demonstrated that higher green tea consumption was linearly associated with a reduced risk of PCa with more than 7 cups/day. In addition, green tea catechins were effective for preventing PCa with an RR of 0.38"

Green tea and Cardiovascular disease

There`s so much data here that I`ll just make some quick references to the most profound studies and meta-data again.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-hea...sease-risk

-A study of 40,530 Japanese adults found that participants who drank more than five cups of green tea a day had a 26% lower risk of death from heart attack or stroke and a 16% lower risk of death from all causes than people who drank less than one cup of green tea a day.

-Last year, a meta-analysis of observational studies—13 conducted in green tea drinkers and five in black tea drinkers—found that people who drank the most green tea had a 28% lower risk of coronary artery disease than those who drank the least green tea. Black tea had no effect on heart risk.

-Another 2011 meta-analysis of 14 randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trials found that green tea significantly lowered LDL cholesterol and triglyceride levels. Many of the studies had been conducted with capsules containing catechins, the active polyphenols in green tea, rather than with the beverage itself.
(This summary also mentions dose and potential side effects, but I`ll deal with that at the end. Including why you should avoid tea pills)

Green tea and longevity

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3830687/
"Further analysis showed that compared to consistently infrequent tea drinkers, subjects who reported frequent tea drinking at both age 60 and at baseline (80 and above) survey had a 10% reduction in mortality"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22243697
32 606 individuals (men) aged 65 and above.
"Hazard regressions showed that men who drink tea almost every day have a 10-20 % lower risk of death compared to their counterparts who seldom drink tea, after adjusting for numerous confounders"

Although the type of tea is not specified here, the Chinese tend to drink a lot of green tea, as well as white tea and Oolong etc. that all have high levels of EGCG.

Dose and Toxicity

There has never been a reported case of clinical toxicity with a green tea beverage. And clinical studies with healthy individuals indicate that a dose of 800mg in the form of green tea extract was well tolerated by healthy subject. There has been a few individual cases however of mostly women with severe liver toxicity from diet pills containing green tea extract in the dose range of 700-1600mg approximately. But I suspect there might be other things at play here like dehydration and alcoholism etc. The take home point however is that if you consume the EGCG in tea form rather than a pill you will basically eliminate any risk of overloading your liver, since the liquid that goes with tea means the water soluble molecules in question can be handled without any issues. The only exception would be if you have severe liver problems, and/or struggle with alcoholism. It`s difficult to calculate the amount of EGCG in a cup of tea since it varies depending on the type of tea, amount used, brewing time etc. But a fair estimate would be something like 50-80mg from one cup of Sencha loose leaf tea. Maybe a little less from a tea bag of the same tea type. So if you stay within the 3-7 cups a day range there is no risk of any liver issues at all. It`s also worth mentioning that very high doses of any antioxidant is associated with a pro-oxidative effect on cells.

The best tea and Bioavailability


   


You want a tea that is high in EGCG, low in caffeine (I see no health benefit of caffeine, only downsides) and that is relatively inexpensive. I`m sure there are many options here, but organic Sencha tea seems like a good choice. It`s very high in antioxidants and relatively low in caffeine. Organic really matters when it comes to tea since tea leaves absorb more chemicals than say a sleek tomato or apple. (Plus it`s steeped in water.) Loose leaf will have more EGCG than tea bags, but it`s not really about `more is better` as I talked about above, so organic tea bags would be fine as well.

Despite all the positive effects described here, green tea catechins actually have very poor bioavailability. There is a way of greatly enhancing it`s effectiveness however. If you consume the green tea in conjunction with omega-3 long chain fatty acids the cells ability to utilize the EGCG will be greatly increased.
https://nccih.nih.gov/research/results/s...031610.htm
"Researchers from the University of South Florida divided Alzheimer’s disease‑model mice into five feeding groups. During a period of 6 months, each group was fed one of five diets: fish oil only; high‑dose EGCG; low‑dose EGCG; low‑dose EGCG and fish oil; or a regular diet (control). The researchers observed that low‑dose EGCG alone did not reduce the Alzheimer’s disease-related chemical processes in the brain. However, the mice fed the combination of fish oil and EGCG had a significant reduction in amyloid deposits that have been linked with Alzheimer’s disease."

So if you also supplement with krill oil, which I much prefer to other types of fish oil, it will be much more effective. (You don`t have to take the krill oil at the same time as you drink the tea.)

In conclusion

-Consistently drinking green tea in the dose range of 3-4 and up to 7 cups a day as a part of your daily routine seems to be one the best and simplest things you can do to extend life and reduce your risk of pretty much all disease, including cancer, diabetes 2, cardiovascular disease, neuro-degenerative diseases etc.

-A tea low in caffeine and high in EGCG is the best choice. (Sencha is a safe bet.) It`s vital to go organic.

-Taking omega-3`s in conjunction with your tea drinking will greatly enhance the effects of the antioxidants. A good quality Antarctic krill oil is the best omega-3 source in my opinion. (Mostly because of the naturally occurring astaxanthin protecting the EPA, DHA from oxidation.)

-Low dose and consistency in the long term will get you further than higher dose/short term supplementation.

Post: #2

Dupe

/thread-11041.html

Post: #3

(04-26-2018 07:26 PM)redbeard Wrote:  Dupe

/thread-11041.html

I think my perspective on it is a bit different than in the other thread. But thx for the heads up.

Post: #4

Good sheet. Green tea is great. If you have the time and good diet I think it's worth it to throw in teas for health benefits.
Fish oil + green tea = longevity/nootropic supplementation 101




White tea is supposed to be better though because it has more antioxidants but it has less caffiene. Green tea is just more common probably because of the ltheanine + caffiene combo.

I'm gonna nit pick your choice of #1 Omega 3 scource though.The best by far would be Norwegian cod liver oil. Krill oil is touted as being the best by areas / people that pimp it out.
Cod liver oil speaks for itself and doesn't need to be pimped out because it's the best of the best hands down.
I've never seen an advertisement for cod liver oil on TV. Nor is the good stuff sold at Walmart. Meanwhile krill oil is all over Walmart and on tv. Krill oil is a marketing ploy to make money off of people.

Post: #5

Has anybody tried chaga tea? It claims to be the highest source of antioxidants.

Post: #6

What about matcha beverages? Matcha is just concentrated green tea leaves I believe.

As for caffeine, recent studies have found many benefits, including protection from most cancers

https://www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j5024

Post: #7

I have heard that you should drink green tea with lemon juice to increase bioavailability, is this correct?

Post: #8

(04-27-2018 09:40 AM)Montrose Wrote:  What about matcha beverages? Matcha is just concentrated green tea leaves I believe.

As for caffeine, recent studies have found many benefits, including protection from most cancers

https://www.bmj.com/content/359/bmj.j5024

Matcha is good, but has more caffeine and less antioxidants. Tastes great also. Have to disagree with the caffeine is good part though. Caffeine increases levels of androgens, (among many other effects) DHT promotes epithelium cell proliferation, which in turns means increased rate of telomere shortening, unstable chromosomes, mutations and then eventually either apoptosis or cancer. I would say that caffeine is one of the leading causes of prostate cancer. The antioxidants in coffee might partially attenuate for some of these effects, but only partially.

Post: #9

(04-27-2018 12:48 PM)Savage Wrote:  I have heard that you should drink green tea with lemon juice to increase bioavailability, is this correct?

Omega 3`s or quercetin. Maybe pepper also. Don`t know about lemon juice.

Post: #10

Do you have a source regarding the effect of caffeine? Every study I find links caffeine with decreased cancer risk.

Post: #11

Yep. I drink 2-4 cups a day and add theanine supplements too for relaxation/concentration.

Post: #12

The king of antioxidants is fasting. Green tea works if your stomach is empty. If your body is already full of toxins, green tea has minimal effects.

Post: #13

(04-28-2018 05:09 AM)Montrose Wrote:  Do you have a source regarding the effect of caffeine? Every study I find links caffeine with decreased cancer risk.

You have to separate between long term and short term effects here. It`s well proven that caffeine promotes increased cell proliferation in androgen sensitive tissues, like the prostate. It turns out most of the studies done on caffeine have not looked at the chronic effects, which are often the exact opposite of the more short term ones. (Coffee for example was always associated with elevated serotonin, but with chronic use it actually causes lower basal serotonin levels.)

With low dose and chronic use caffeine promotes benign prostate hyperplasia. (BPH) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23136995

And BPH is associated with higher risk of prostate cancer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4863764/

But it`s important to understand why this is. Coffee has potent antioxidants, which protects cells from oxidative damage, but at the same time it causes certain cells to divide faster. And when those cells eventually get to a point where the telomeres are critically short, you will see chromosome instability, mutations and probably cancer. Caffeine will accelerate this process.

Post: #14

If I'm drinking flavored green teas like lemon and apple, does the sugar nullify the health benefits?

Post: #15

Johnyvee, thanks for a great contribution.

You mentioned krill oil instead of cod liver, and it sounds like you have put some investigation into that.

Wondering if you have an opinion on the skate liver oil by these guys:
http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Produ...eLiverOil/

Post: #16

(04-29-2018 02:14 AM)Il Bersagliere Wrote:  If I'm drinking flavored green teas like lemon and apple, does the sugar nullify the health benefits?

That's kind of like a less extreme version of smoking after an hour of cardio. Buy the good stuff (admittedly easier for me in Asia) and over time you will grow to appreciate the taste unsweetened.

Post: #17

I have never been able to get into drinking tea, I much prefer coffee.

It sounds like the benefit to tea is the antioxidants. Well, a cup of blueberries has twice as many antioxidants as green tea. I put a cup into my smoothy daily which for me is a lot easier than making tea, especially if I have to buy loose leaf tea, organic, worry about pesticides on the tea, and then have to brew/steep it.

As far as caffeine, there are health benefits to coffee and caffeine.

Post: #18

(04-29-2018 05:31 AM)Hypno Wrote:  I have never been able to get into drinking tea, I much prefer coffee.

It sounds like the benefit to tea is the antioxidants. Well, a cup of blueberries has twice as many antioxidants as green tea. I put a cup into my smoothy daily which for me is a lot easier than making tea, especially if I have to buy loose leaf tea, organic, worry about pesticides on the tea, and then have to brew/steep it.

As far as caffeine, there are health benefits to coffee and caffeine.

I really like green tea but don't drink it enough to make much of a difference. Maybe 2-3 cups a week. Like Hypno I do have a cup of blueberries in my morning smoothy.

A partial reason for the avoidance of 2-3 + cups/day of Green tea as I have read it can lower T levels, and as a mid-40's guy I need to increase my levels not hold them back.

Post: #19

(04-29-2018 02:50 AM)TooFineAPoint Wrote:  Johnyvee, thanks for a great contribution.

You mentioned krill oil instead of cod liver, and it sounds like you have put some investigation into that.

Wondering if you have an opinion on the skate liver oil by these guys:
http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Produ...eLiverOil/

I`m not familiar with that producer specifically, but in general I would recommend krill oil over fish oil, provided it`s from Antarctic krill, meets international fishing standards and hexane has not been used in the extraction of the krill oil. Basically avoid the cheapest supplements! I also like to break one capsule open and smell the content, or smell the fish oil. If it`s too rancid, I`m sceptical of taking it. You can`t do that with products that have lemon oil etc etc to mask any smell. The Astaxanthin in krill oil should protect it from lipid oxidation.
I`m to lazy to write down all the reasons for krill oil being superior at the moment, but I agree with the following points from Dr. Mercola`s site listed below.
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic...h-oil.aspx

Higher potency

Studies have shown that krill oil may be 48 times more potent than fish oil. This means you need far less of it than fish oil, as confirmed by a 2011 study published in the journal Lipids.1
Researchers gave subjects less than 63 percent as much krill-based EPA/DHA as the fish oil group, yet both groups showed equivalent blood levels — meaning the krill was more potent.

Contains phospholipids

Fatty acids are water soluble, but they can't be transported in their free form in your blood — they require "packaging" into lipoprotein vehicles. In krill oil, the omega-3 fat is attached to phospholipids, which means your body can readily absorb it.
In fish oil, the omega-3s are attached to triglycerides that must be broken down in your gut to its base fatty acids of DHA and EPA. About 80 to 85 percent is simply eliminated in your intestine. Studies confirm krill oil is absorbed 10 to 15 times better than fish oil.
It's also able to efficiently cross your blood-brain barrier to reach important brain structures.
Phospholipids are also one of the principal compounds in high-density lipoproteins (HDL), which you want more of, and by allowing your cells to maintain structural integrity, phospholipids help your cells function properly.

Contains phosphatidylcholine

When you consume fish oil, your liver has to attach it to phosphatidylcholine in order for it to be utilized by your body. Krill oil already contains phosphatidylcholine, which is another reason for its superior bioavailability.
Phosphatidylcholine is composed partly of choline, the precursor for the vital neurotransmitter acetylcholine, which sends nerve signals to your brain, and for trimethylglycine, which protects your liver.
Choline is important to brain development, learning and memory. In fact, choline plays a vital role in fetal and infant brain development, so it's particularly important if you are pregnant or nursing.

Resists oxidation

Fish oil is quite prone to oxidation, and oxidation leads to the formation of free radicals. Consuming free radicals further increases your need for antioxidants.
Fish oil is very low in antioxidants whereas krill oil contains astaxanthin — probably the most potent antioxidant in nature — which is why krill oil is so stable and resistant to oxidation.
(According to industry expert Rudi Moerck, Ph.D. the vast majority of fish oil being sold is actually rancid before you even open the bottle, because it doesn't have this protective antioxidant.)
Independent Oxygen Radical Absorbance Capacity (ORAC) evaluations have established that krill oil (courtesy of the astaxanthin) has over 300 times the antioxidant power of vitamin A and vitamin E; 47 times that of lutein; over 34 times the antioxidant power of CoQ10.

Contaminant-free

Fish are very prone to mercury and other heavy metal contamination, courtesy of widespread water pollution. Antarctic krill is not prone to this contamination.
Not only are they harvested from cleaner waters, but since krill is at the bottom of the food chain, it feeds on phytoplankton and not over other contaminated fish.

Environmentally sustainable

Krill is far more sustainable than fish because it's the largest biomass in the world, making krill harvesting one of the most sustainable practices on the planet. Harvesting of krill is also carefully regulated, and only 1 to 2 percent of the total krill biomass is harvested each year.
The krill population is monitored by The Commission for the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources (CCAMLR). The Marine Stewardship Council (MSC) certifies that harvesting is done in compliance with strict sustainability criteria to avoid overfishing.

Post: #20

Would you mind listing some specific brands you recommend?

Post: #21

(04-28-2018 06:22 AM)Bain Wrote:  The king of antioxidants is fasting. Green tea works if your stomach is empty. If your body is already full of toxins, green tea has minimal effects.

This is interesting. Is there more information on this? If there is any truth to pushing toxins out, that's more reason to drink more of it.

Post: #22

(04-29-2018 07:51 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Would you mind listing some specific brands you recommend?

Brands? LOL!

Go to your nearest Chinatown and buy some from a traditional medicine shop. They will weight it and put it in a bag for you. If you are not sure take an Asian chick with you. If you moved too far away from one, I could ship you some grown on a mountain in China I guess. One smell of that and you will realize the gulf in tea quality from what is bought in a supermarket.

Get a good tea pot while you are buying some.



They look something like this. You put the leaves inside the middle part and it keeps the leaves from floating around in the tea itself. Only the high quality stuff can be bought in loose leaf form. Green tea in packets like Lipton or Bigelow is garbage. They spray shit on those leaves and the tea itself has a shitty color.

You can buy instant tea bags from Japan, from the Asian grocery stores. They have Sencha and Matcha variants. Sometimes a blend of both in the same tea bags. Most Green Tea from China is like the Sencha style in Japan, just an FYI.

Post: #23

I quite like Itoen's green tea for daily consumption. It's the real deal Japanese tea, no additives, and reasonably priced.

https://www.amazon.com/Itoen-Ryokucha-Gr...B004M89V6K

Of course, green tea is a whole field in itself like wine. You can go much more upper end than this.

Edit: Forgot to mention this one has a touch of Matcha added which I think makes it taste more interesting, but probably raises the caffeine content slightly.

Post: #24

(04-30-2018 12:29 AM)Bushido Wrote:  I quite like Itoen's green tea for daily consumption. It's the real deal Japanese tea, no additives, and reasonably priced.

https://www.amazon.com/Itoen-Ryokucha-Gr...B004M89V6K

Of course, green tea is a whole field in itself like wine. You can go much more upper end than this.

Edit: Forgot to mention this one has a touch of Matcha added which I think makes it taste more interesting, but probably raises the caffeine content slightly.

Good points. Green tea can get really expensive in a hurry. I have seen bags going up to 800usd. I have drank tea and stuff like expensive hong cha (red/black tea) that would sell for a few hundred bucks in the US, but I can get it for 50 bucks in China. Then there is the panda pooped out green tea which has a retarded price range.

I used to buy a big box of that Itoen brand, from Ranch 99 Asian supermarket, and put it on the kitchen counter in the office for me and the other Asian and Otaku/japanese fan boy-like guys. Every now and then we could get a Latino or a white guy to convert to our tea. There's does have some matcha inside it. They also have brown rice ones with a nice flavor, which is typical green tea for eating sushi with.

Post: #25

This is what I ended up getting for now, 100 bags for $4:

Quote:Our Organic Legends of China Green Tea (camellia sinensis) comes from the high mountains in the Fujian Province of China and is grown without pesticides, with natural fertilizer and with careful attention for the preservation of the ecosystem. The caffeine content of our organic green tea is below industry average at approximately 20 to 40 mg of caffeine per cup. In comparison, our black tea contains 50 to 55 mg and typical coffee contains 100 to 120 mg. Our tea bags are always oxygen bleached without the use of any chemicals.

http://www.unclelee.com/