Post: #1

I'm not by any stretch a newbie or a virgin or anything like that, but this topic seems more appropriate for the newbie forum.

Simply put, my mind is worn out and my spirit is broken when it comes to pursuing women. They just do not meet me halfway, or even a tenth of the way. I take an interest in them, make a concerted effort to learn about them, rack my brain to think of funny or clever or interesting things to say, and 95% of the time they return the favor by answering in the most succinct, boring, conversation-killing way conceivable. Virtually all women take zero interest in getting to know me.

The question you'd naturally have after reading that is "look in the mirror, are you the type of guy women should want to get to know?" Totally fair question as plenty of fat unkempt losers make these complaints, but I'm not one. I have the physique of a serious athlete, I have a fantastic job and pays nicely and provides good work/life balance, I pay closer attention to clothing and grooming than most guys, and since these unfortunately matter to girls, I'll throw in that I'm tall and white. What adds to my bewilderment is the fact that most of these girls are no more attractive (often less) than ones I've been with in the past.

Again there's a natural question here- "Well how did you get attractive girls in the past?" Same way as now, just grinding countless hours talking to shitty timewasters until a miracle happened and a cute girl actually showed some life and enthusiasm. But honestly every time that happened, it felt like a fluke. And things seem to be getting worse and worse as time goes on and the dating market gets more efficient... every non-fat, non-hideous girl who puts herself out there has a practically unlimited supply of offers from guys like me.

At this point, in my head it least, it feels like I won't get another miracle. My mind is conditioned to associate dating only with the soul-crushing experience of putting in tons of effort and getting none in return from girls who are in worse shape, dumber, and less accomplished than me, and it has killed my energy and motivation. It just feels like I have no power over the situation; I've taken care of everything within my control (all of which is frankly easy compared to this), but I can't control the motivations of other people. Male attention is just cheap as fuck to young women and there's nothing any of us can do about it.

I'm not sure what point I'm even trying to make here, I guess I just wanted to vent and get my thoughts down in writing. It'd also be nice to know if I'm the only one going through this crisis. Maybe I give off an off-putting vibe, maybe I'm in an exceptionally terrible location, or maybe I was just naive ever expecting things to be any other way. I really don't know.

Post: #2

So are you in a rut right now? You banging any girls?

I get that way sometimes, admittedly I don't have the best job, I'm not in as good of shape, I am tall and white though. I think it's just player fatigue my dude. Happens to everyone who is in the game long enough.

How is your diet? How about satisfaction with life in general? Are you happy other than western women being western women? I find if I'm projecting that I'm depressed or cynical even a little bit it turns the vast majority of girls off me. When I'm having a great time and helping other people enjoy themselves girls definitely are more interested. And it's like a persistent mindset that takes upkeep and effort.

I know you're not a newbie or anything but you may be making the rookie mistake of basing your happiness and contentment on how women interact with you. I seriously believe most people (women especially) aren't exactly great people. Most or self-serving, disloyal, lying, and boring. Not really on any malevolent shit, just on some real lazy path of least resistance shit. While it may be useful to pay attention to how people treat you i think it's a mistake to stake any serious part of yourself on it. And of course it helps to remember there are great people out there, women included. All it takes is meeting that one exceptional person to turn your attitude all the way around be it a cool chick, business contact, new friend, someone with a lot of value and utility etc. Of course you have to be open to it, optimistic in your approach to the relatiinship, and provide value yourself.

Anyway with stats like yours and seeing your complaints you need to work on your inner game. Whatever is getting you down probably needs a change of mindset and attitude. It's not easy but do what you need to do to get there.

Sometimes I'll take work off and go play pool all day until I'm warmed up enough to beat people out of therr money, and even if I lose I'm happy about the lesson. Sometimes talking to a good friend about what's going on gets me back. Sometimes I call my dad. Sometimes I take the battery out of my phone and go out to a rural area to shoot or hike or swim.

Find some stuff like that that will help you reset

I also think some of your observation are valid. Male attention is cheap to hot girls. Women don't put in much effort especially initially. Those things are fairly objective. It doesn't have to be negative. When a girl isn't giving me the time of day when I sincerely put in my best effort I next her, she's blowing all of her human capital on the now, not the potential, she's stupid it's not my problem. If a girl isn't putting in effort I set my expectations sharply and intently. I find having a dominance mindset really helps with mid-long term interactions. The old "I am the prize" mentality. Maybe you skipped some of this stuff when it came to internalizing basic inner game stuff. I tend to test and challenge womens value - "prove it" - i think and even say sometimes. A lot fuck off after so many tests but the ones that stick around usually do want to please and add value, so you might screen better too. Women actually are very good at this, i know it sounds like some gay shit but I've taken a lot of lessons from them in that department

Post: #3

Need some more information.

Where are you meeting these women exactly?
Do you tend to be more introverted?
Do you have a good group of guy friends?
And since you hinted at it, what type of location (major city, suburbs, rural)?

Post: #4

The mind is a reflex organ -- 78,000 thoughts a day which you can't control.

In this life, and in this game, you are going to have ups and downs. You're going to have great thoughts and depressing thoughts. You're going to feel like you have more women than you know what to do with and then you are going to feel completely alone.

Hang on for a little longer. Things get better. Get rid of the thought that you have to be completely happy all the time and if you are not then something is wrong with you. Real life isn't a perfect little Instagram profile like society portrays. It's a struggle to fight for what you want.

Post: #5

(07-07-2018 05:38 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  So are you in a rut right now? You banging any girls?

I get that way sometimes, admittedly I don't have the best job, I'm not in as good of shape, I am tall and white though. I think it's just player fatigue my dude. Happens to everyone who is in the game long enough.

I was never a player. I never went through the phase where spending time with girls I didn't like so I could fuck them seemed fulfilling. So no, I'm not banging any girls right now and haven't for a few months, but that's because I choose to leave pussy on the table if it's someone I would never consider for a relationship. You can imagine with my stats I have no shortage of opportunities from fat chicks and desperate 30-somethings on dating sites, but I ignore those. Nonetheless, "unicorn hunting," as it's called, can produce its own type of fatigue when you realize just how difficult it is to find what you're looking for.

(07-07-2018 05:38 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  How is your diet? How about satisfaction with life in general? Are you happy other than western women being western women? I find if I'm projecting that I'm depressed or cynical even a little bit it turns the vast majority of girls off me.

I'm happy with most things in my life. But when I go on dates, I keep getting that nagging feeling that it's going to be a waste of time, and it kills my mood. I end up having to feign enthusiasm which girls can probably see right through. And worse, they don't even pretend to give a shit, which exacerbates my own lack of enthusiasm.

(07-07-2018 05:38 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  I seriously believe most people (women especially) aren't exactly great people. Most or self-serving, disloyal, lying, and boring. Not really on any malevolent shit, just on some real lazy path of least resistance shit.

Dude get out of my head. I never used to believe this until I started going out of my way to meet a lot of people for dating purposes, after which my view of humanity has become about 1000x more negative. And it's exactly as you describe; I never feel as though people are going out of their way to harm me, but at the same time, the vast majority of people are far too thoughtless, disloyal, lazy and selfish to ever make decent friends or companions.

(07-07-2018 05:38 PM)Eugenics Wrote:  Anyway with stats like yours and seeing your complaints you need to work on your inner game. Whatever is getting you down probably needs a change of mindset and attitude. It's not easy but do what you need to do to get there.

Sometimes I'll take work off and go play pool all day until I'm warmed up enough to beat people out of therr money, and even if I lose I'm happy about the lesson. Sometimes talking to a good friend about what's going on gets me back. Sometimes I call my dad. Sometimes I take the battery out of my phone and go out to a rural area to shoot or hike or swim.

Find some stuff like that that will help you reset

It's funny you say that- I recently had a great weekend hanging out with some male friends, just enjoyed it without thinking about this shit at all... then the minute I got back home I was just like "fuck, what now" and the emptiness enveloped me once again. What should've reset me and given me some perspective... didn't.

Post: #6

(07-07-2018 05:39 PM)Synezthetic Wrote:  Need some more information.

Where are you meeting these women exactly?
Do you tend to be more introverted?
Do you have a good group of guy friends?
And since you hinted at it, what type of location (major city, suburbs, rural)?

1. Mostly online. I've tried night game and it just isn't my thing, and day game/social circle produce almost no leads out where I am.

2. Yes

3. Yes and no. I socialize a lot with people at work, we hang out during the week, etc. But my weekends can be more empty than I'd like sometimes- most of the closest guy friends I grew up with have moved on to the next phase of their life and drifted apart, which I suspect is natural.

4. Suburbs. But wayyy out into the suburbs, not close at all to the actual city.

Post: #7

A few things my friend. First, read Linux's post over and over again. This is essentially what life boils down to. There are ups and downs and it can go from up to down and vice versa in a split second. It's okay to be miserable sometimes, it just is. Now if you can get to the point in your life where even if the stuff going on around you is misery making but deep inside you're still at peace, then you've reached the holy grail. That takes a lot of living and suffering and most people never achieve this level of consciousness. To me this is the ultimate goal of life.

As to your burn out with women issue, man you are not alone in the least. The more time you spend with them, the more anxious you will get. The more time you spend with many random women, you can multiply that anxiety by 100. Women can be a great asset, provide love and support and so on but many times they are a time, money and emotional drain, even one that is in love with you. I got to the point after my divorce that I just didn't worry too much about chasing pussy. I just did my thing and some pussy came my way. The constant chasing of pussy is tiresome and I don't do it anymore at my age. If I get a good feeling about a chick I've just met, I'll go for it, if not, I ain't gonna worry about it. I'm very picky as to who I will give my time and energy to. Reading the forum ironically can make you more anxious too because everyone is writing about the pussy chase and conquer which is giving you and many others FOMO (fear of missing out).

I think you will eventually get out of your current rut, they almost always run their course. In the meantime, think of this. You only need one chick. You don't need a few plates, random bangs, tinder ho's, you just need one to get you going. Now she won't be perfect, a unicorn, but she should and will check enough boxes for you to get with her for a while. She will eventually come along. The older I get, the more I'm convinced that too many guys are trying to be players that shouldn't be based on their make up but since everyone these days is pursuing the player lifestyle, its making a wreck of a lot of men. Tinder, Seeking Arrangement and dating apps in general has fucked a lot of dudes up. And women as well of course. Hang in there man, you'll be ok, just define to yourself what you want from your dating life and then live your life, hang with your boys, work your career, travel (definitely do this) and be as happy as you can be with what you've got. Takes time, lots of time to find a decent chick. Which is how it's always been man.

Post: #8

Delta, you should read this post I wrote almost exactly 4 years ago:

Don't Let Frustration With Women Make You Feel Bad About Life In General

Yes, women are bad news these days -- it's only gotten worse since I wrote that, if that's possible. But that's no reason not to enjoy the rest of your life just as much. The world does not revolve around eros -- or at least, it doesn't need to if you can let go of the idea that it must.

One more thing:

(07-07-2018 07:03 PM)Delta Wrote:  It's funny you say that- I recently had a great weekend hanging out with some male friends, just enjoyed it without thinking about this shit at all... then the minute I got back home I was just like "fuck, what now" and the emptiness enveloped me once again. What should've reset me and given me some perspective... didn't.

This "fuck, what now" and this "emptiness" is f'ing classic -- and it's laughably silly and childish, if I may say so. If you were able to have a good time with some friends, just relish it and appreciate it for what it is; do not challenge it or demand some sort of "reset" from it, as if its only value were instrumental, rather than a good in itself. And do not let your mind subside into an ingrate's "emptiness" for which there is neither need nor excuse in a world that has never been more various, enjoyable, and full of interest and possibility.

In short, and once again, don't let frustration with women make you feel bad about life in general. So many men will waste their lives and minds in a rut of whining about the vagaries of eros in one way or another -- but you can always free your mind of that inanity and have a much better and more enjoyable life as a result (and ultimately a better time with women as well).

Post: #9

Looks like it's time for a change of surroundings. Not saying you should up and leave everything behind, but a trip for a week or two some place new sounds like it could help. If you're into adventurous shit, look into Intrepid tours - lots of cool adventure travel to be had. If you like big cities, fly out to NYC or even some international hub like London or somewhere in LatAm.

Basically - sometimes the one thing you need is just a change of environment, even for a brief period of time, to help you break the poor mental habits. Good luck.

Post: #10

Sorry to hear about the rut. A lot of us have been there. Seems like it's a rough time for a lot of guys, I run in some pretty high-quality-man circles and except for those already married, guys are pretty uniformly discouraged about what they can get out there.

One thing that helped me - might not help you, but was good for me - was to think, "what would I do to lead a happy life if I was told I wouldn't get laid again in my life?" A hard thought I know, but worth it to think about what you'd build your life around if it didn't involve women at all. (For me, I deleted all dating apps and stopped approaching at all for a couple of months.) That at least helped the disappointment of meeting substandard girls not eat at me so much.

Post: #11

You've got to master your emotions and find meaning outside of women. We have such a strong drive to fuck and care for them I know the feeling when your hind brain is demanding you seek affection from them.

Most people can't handle that first sting of loneliness, that's why they rush into marriages. The first girl gives them the time of day they want to wife her up just to ease the fear in their mind. Modern life has made their sexuality valuable beyond what nature intended.

I say this is an opportunity to increase your mental toughness. Any chump can get married. Having a female occupy the same living space as you isn't going to solve your problems. That's why guys like Anthony bourdain and robin Williams killed themselves after their women left them. They didn't have inner peace, a woman can't solve that for you.

If I'm really in a slump, I'll buy a hot hooker then re-focus on my job, plans, and hobbies. But that's me you'll have to find the answer for yourself.

Post: #12

(07-07-2018 05:23 PM)Delta Wrote:  I'm not by any stretch a newbie or a virgin or anything like that, but this topic seems more appropriate for the newbie forum.

Simply put, my mind is worn out and my spirit is broken when it comes to pursuing women. They just do not meet me halfway, or even a tenth of the way. I take an interest in them, make a concerted effort to learn about them, rack my brain to think of funny or clever or interesting things to say, and 95% of the time they return the favor by answering in the most succinct, boring, conversation-killing way conceivable. Virtually all women take zero interest in getting to know me.

The question you'd naturally have after reading that is "look in the mirror, are you the type of guy women should want to get to know?" Totally fair question as plenty of fat unkempt losers make these complaints, but I'm not one. I have the physique of a serious athlete, I have a fantastic job and pays nicely and provides good work/life balance, I pay closer attention to clothing and grooming than most guys, and since these unfortunately matter to girls, I'll throw in that I'm tall and white. What adds to my bewilderment is the fact that most of these girls are no more attractive (often less) than ones I've been with in the past.

Again there's a natural question here- "Well how did you get attractive girls in the past?" Same way as now, just grinding countless hours talking to shitty timewasters until a miracle happened and a cute girl actually showed some life and enthusiasm. But honestly every time that happened, it felt like a fluke. And things seem to be getting worse and worse as time goes on and the dating market gets more efficient... every non-fat, non-hideous girl who puts herself out there has a practically unlimited supply of offers from guys like me.

At this point, in my head it least, it feels like I won't get another miracle. My mind is conditioned to associate dating only with the soul-crushing experience of putting in tons of effort and getting none in return from girls who are in worse shape, dumber, and less accomplished than me, and it has killed my energy and motivation. It just feels like I have no power over the situation; I've taken care of everything within my control (all of which is frankly easy compared to this), but I can't control the motivations of other people. Male attention is just cheap as fuck to young women and there's nothing any of us can do about it.

I'm not sure what point I'm even trying to make here, I guess I just wanted to vent and get my thoughts down in writing. It'd also be nice to know if I'm the only one going through this crisis. Maybe I give off an off-putting vibe, maybe I'm in an exceptionally terrible location, or maybe I was just naive ever expecting things to be any other way. I really don't know.

I hear you and let's not ignore the elephant in the kitchen. An attractive women who likes you is a huge turn on which makes a man happy. I am not one to tell you to focus on other things because our DNA loves attractive feminine women regardless if they are westernized. I do have some wisdom I am going to post on a new thread..

Durden

Post: #13

Delta, we have all been there, some longer than others but I think the lesson to learn in the end is about the same for all of us. From your post, it sounds like you are basing a large part of your happiness on your success with women which as we know is not the best for inner game. You mention about having a good physique, height etc. This reminds me of something I read a while back, trying hard with women does not work well for guys who feel that to women, they might be 'good looking'. You might come across as being a try hard when you dont have to try much at all. At the same time, you might also be showing your disappointment early on in a date due to past failures, when in the present, you might still have had a shot. Girls dont care about your past, they are in the present and want to have fun now and such a vibe is a turn off.

You also mention a good job, enough money and you live in the suburbs How about a move to the city, you are bound to meet more people without even trying and take up some hobbies to occupy your spare time. Like some said, travelling is a good idea if you think you are burnt out, latin america, europe, asia etc, it can take your mind off things, give a new perspective and might even convince you that the majority of anglo women or women in general might not be worth mulling over that much.

Post: #14

Thanks for all the responses. I have to say, without even unpacking the main content of the posts here, I already feel better knowing that it's not just me. Nobody in my life seems to have any clue how grim things are out there. The men I surround myself with tend to be the sort who stuck with their first serious girlfriend from their early 20's, and then there's my parents who obviously are from a different era... people like this simply don't believe there's any asymmetry in dating. They see someone like me struggling and assume either I'm being totally retarded about it, or I have outrageous standards. Struggling with a problem is bad enough, but it's a special kind of torture when people who haven't given it more than ten seconds of thought insist your problem that consumes you hours per day is imaginary. I'm grateful to have this refuge of people who have fought to overcome the same difficulties.

Post: #15

Women don't have genuine agency. They're not independently *choosing* anything. So while you take their disinterest personally, you need to understand its more akin to a pack of dogs responding to their environment. They don't have a higher thinking ability to understand what they're really doing and *why*. They're entirely emotionally driven, modern life (created by logical men like you) has made it so their sexual impetus is only triggered by extreme men.
This is why every religion and society created structures and regulations for women to be constrained by. You're correct, in your grandparents' age you would have your pick of hot young women. It's not *you* that's the problem it's them, or rather a society that is deliberately misleading them.

I used to go to bars doing cold approaches and get severely blown out, called creepy, etc.. Then at house parties I could slay decent girls consistently. Well, at a house party the girl assumes you have a certain level of social value by knowing the same people. I'm the same guy but get completely different reactions depending the situation. You realize how much their minds are influenced by other factors and you stop viewing them as intellectual equals.

Their sexuality responds to market conditions. Their base needs are met so they only fuck for extreme emotional triggers instead of decent, hard-working men whom they perceive as boring. If you viewed them as objects incapable of higher thought it makes perfect sense and you won't be offended by it.

Same reason they'll fuck a drug dealer or DJ over an accountant. It's more fun to them but they can't articulate *why*.

Post: #16

You’ve got it all wrong buddy.

You have to get to know HER until you feel you can predict her behavior, and the less she knows about you the better.

You should always remain a mystery—you’re a lover and possibly a protector down the road—not her little brother. She should hold you in admiration and awe and be afraid to ask you about yourself. If she ever does, then brief aloof answers are what you feed her.

If you love her like a child, she will return respect and admiration. That’s all you can ask. Don’t hope for her to understand you—no man should ever want that.

Women don’t want your soul, just your love. When they say you’re cold, unavailable, distant, or whatever complaint in those veins, they don’t mean they want to know you better, but rather that your love is not enough for them.

Love is doing the right thing even if it hurts her in the moment. Love is truly caring even if it means being harsh. Love is accepting that she doesn’t have the capacity to love you like you love her.

Women are mirrors that reflect the love you have for yourself—they have limited ability to create love or anything else for that matter.

Only men can create.

Post: #17

(07-07-2018 07:09 PM)Delta Wrote:  

(07-07-2018 05:39 PM)Synezthetic Wrote:  Need some more information.

Where are you meeting these women exactly?
Do you tend to be more introverted?
Do you have a good group of guy friends?
And since you hinted at it, what type of location (major city, suburbs, rural)?

1. Mostly online. I've tried night game and it just isn't my thing, and day game/social circle produce almost no leads out where I am.

2. Yes

3. Yes and no. I socialize a lot with people at work, we hang out during the week, etc. But my weekends can be more empty than I'd like sometimes- most of the closest guy friends I grew up with have moved on to the next phase of their life and drifted apart, which I suspect is natural.

4. Suburbs. But wayyy out into the suburbs, not close at all to the actual city.

Pretty much every answer was what I expected. These sort of things correlate to the feelings you're having. But by far, number one is the biggest issue. Look, I get that cold approaching is incredibly difficult, and that social circle game, etc. is easier said than done (especially for an introvert who keeps a close circle and doesn't really let new people in) but relying on online game is a disaster - it's going to make you think your target quality is lower than it should be, and you're going to be getting a constant stream of damaged women who are also narcissistic and unable to give their attention to one man for longer than 15 minutes.

It's tough, but developing a larger social circle, and just putting yourself in more situations where there's decent-looking girls (a different gym, new coffee shop, anything) and grinding out some in-person work is the only way you'll end up making moves.

Swiping more on a herd of damaged fatties is only going to make the problem worse.

Post: #18

(07-07-2018 05:23 PM)Delta Wrote:  I'm not by any stretch a newbie or a virgin or anything like that, but this topic seems more appropriate for the newbie forum.

Simply put, my mind is worn out and my spirit is broken when it comes to pursuing women. They just do not meet me halfway, or even a tenth of the way. I take an interest in them, make a concerted effort to learn about them, rack my brain to think of funny or clever or interesting things to say, and 95% of the time they return the favor by answering in the most succinct, boring, conversation-killing way conceivable. Virtually all women take zero interest in getting to know me.

The question you'd naturally have after reading that is "look in the mirror, are you the type of guy women should want to get to know?" Totally fair question as plenty of fat unkempt losers make these complaints, but I'm not one. I have the physique of a serious athlete, I have a fantastic job and pays nicely and provides good work/life balance, I pay closer attention to clothing and grooming than most guys, and since these unfortunately matter to girls, I'll throw in that I'm tall and white. What adds to my bewilderment is the fact that most of these girls are no more attractive (often less) than ones I've been with in the past.

Again there's a natural question here- "Well how did you get attractive girls in the past?" Same way as now, just grinding countless hours talking to shitty timewasters until a miracle happened and a cute girl actually showed some life and enthusiasm. But honestly every time that happened, it felt like a fluke. And things seem to be getting worse and worse as time goes on and the dating market gets more efficient... every non-fat, non-hideous girl who puts herself out there has a practically unlimited supply of offers from guys like me.

At this point, in my head it least, it feels like I won't get another miracle. My mind is conditioned to associate dating only with the soul-crushing experience of putting in tons of effort and getting none in return from girls who are in worse shape, dumber, and less accomplished than me, and it has killed my energy and motivation. It just feels like I have no power over the situation; I've taken care of everything within my control (all of which is frankly easy compared to this), but I can't control the motivations of other people. Male attention is just cheap as fuck to young women and there's nothing any of us can do about it.

I'm not sure what point I'm even trying to make here, I guess I just wanted to vent and get my thoughts down in writing. It'd also be nice to know if I'm the only one going through this crisis. Maybe I give off an off-putting vibe, maybe I'm in an exceptionally terrible location, or maybe I was just naive ever expecting things to be any other way. I really don't know.

"I used to go to bars doing cold approaches and get severely blown out, called creepy, etc.. Then at house parties I could slay decent girls consistently. Well, at a house party the girl assumes you have a certain level of social value by knowing the same people. I'm the same guy but get completely different reactions depending the situation. You realize how much their minds are influenced by other factors and you stop viewing them as intellectual equals.

Their sexuality responds to market conditions. Their base needs are met so they only fuck for extreme emotional triggers instead of decent, hard-working men whom they perceive as boring. If you viewed them as objects incapable of higher thought it makes perfect sense and you won't be offended by it.

Same reason they'll fuck a drug dealer or DJ over an accountant. It's more fun to them but they can't articulate *why*."

THIS and or foreign women.

Post: #19

[/quote]

Swiping more on a herd of damaged fatties is only going to make the problem worse.
[/quote]

TRUTH, Every man should reject the basic assumption that online game is good. It is NOT!

Want the feeling of low self esteem and low value then do online digital game.

Post: #20

(07-08-2018 12:45 AM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  I used to go to bars doing cold approaches and get severely blown out, called creepy, etc.. Then at house parties I could slay decent girls consistently. Well, at a house party the girl assumes you have a certain level of social value by knowing the same people. I'm the same guy but get completely different reactions depending the situation. You realize how much their minds are influenced by other factors and you stop viewing them as intellectual equals.

It's funny you mention that... a couple times in college (when I had no game, confidence, money, or style and ~15 fewer lbs of muscle than now), girls blatantly threw themselves at me at house parties. Unfortunately, back then I had no idea how to respond to such a thing... like I literally thought I should avoid making moves on them so they'd appreciate how nice and respectful I was. But anyway that's beside the point; you're absolutely correct, that shit NEVER happens at bars. And at my current age, "house parties" are now small, tame affairs where every girl is some dude there's girlfriend. If only I knew back in college what I know now...

I've noticed this same principle in other contexts too. If I see a halfway attractive girl walking by, I usually try to look her in the eye, just to see how she reacts. Here's what I've noticed, with remarkable consistency:
Her reaction when I'm alone or with other men- OMG OMG AVOID EYE CONTACT
Her reaction when I'm with a girl- Look me dead in the eye and smile warmly
It's quite the catch 22.

(07-08-2018 12:57 AM)BadKing Wrote:  You’ve got it all wrong buddy.

You have to get to know HER until you feel you can predict her behavior, and the less she knows about you the better.

You should always remain a mystery—you’re a lover and possibly a protector down the road—not her little brother. She should hold you in admiration and awe and be afraid to ask you about yourself. If she ever does, then brief aloof answers are what you feed her.

If you love her like a child, she will return respect and admiration. That’s all you can ask. Don’t hope for her to understand you—no man should ever want that.

Women don’t want your soul, just your love. When they say you’re cold, unavailable, distant, or whatever complaint in those veins, they don’t mean they want to know you better, but rather that your love is not enough for them.

Love is doing the right thing even if it hurts her in the moment. Love is truly caring even if it means being harsh. Love is accepting that she doesn’t have the capacity to love you like you love her.

Women are mirrors that reflect the love you have for yourself—they have limited ability to create love or anything else for that matter.

Only men can create.

I appreciate the point you're making dude, but you missed my point entirely. I'm not complaining that the girls I meet are too self-centered or whatever; of course that's a given; what I'm saying is that they talk to me in a way that's so listless and devoid of any attempt to make a connection, the only two possibilities are them being really, really, REALLY dumb and boring, or them being totally uninterested in me. In either case I have zero motivation to try and push the interaction forward. I know many of you still go for the bang in the former case, but that's not for me. I just don't think the benefit outweighs the cost.

Post: #21

The point about looking for substance via online dating is the realest shit I’ve read on these forums in a loooong time.
Sadly, I too learned this the hard way

Post: #22

OP you have two choices; either you lower your standards and move on girls that are giddy and nervous around you; or you learn to create an atmosphere and fully carry the conversation with the level of girls you’re currently approaching.

What’s happening is they think they’re better than you, so unless you prove to have amazing conversational abilities—they are not interested.

When you feel you’re too good for someone you make minimal effort. Girls dig it.

You have to be more attractive than them to pull it off. In your case you’re on the other end.

Post: #23

(07-08-2018 06:22 PM)Delta Wrote:  

(07-08-2018 12:45 AM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  I used to go to bars doing cold approaches and get severely blown out, called creepy, etc.. Then at house parties I could slay decent girls consistently. Well, at a house party the girl assumes you have a certain level of social value by knowing the same people. I'm the same guy but get completely different reactions depending the situation. You realize how much their minds are influenced by other factors and you stop viewing them as intellectual equals.

It's funny you mention that... a couple times in college (when I had no game, confidence, money, or style and ~15 fewer lbs of muscle than now), girls blatantly threw themselves at me at house parties. Unfortunately, back then I had no idea how to respond to such a thing... like I literally thought I should avoid making moves on them so they'd appreciate how nice and respectful I was. But anyway that's beside the point; you're absolutely correct, that shit NEVER happens at bars. And at my current age, "house parties" are now small, tame affairs where every girl is some dude there's girlfriend. If only I knew back in college what I know now...

I've noticed this same principle in other contexts too. If I see a halfway attractive girl walking by, I usually try to look her in the eye, just to see how she reacts. Here's what I've noticed, with remarkable consistency:
Her reaction when I'm alone or with other men- OMG OMG AVOID EYE CONTACT
Her reaction when I'm with a girl- Look me dead in the eye and smile warmly
It's quite the catch 22.

(07-08-2018 12:57 AM)BadKing Wrote:  You’ve got it all wrong buddy.

You have to get to know HER until you feel you can predict her behavior, and the less she knows about you the better.

You should always remain a mystery—you’re a lover and possibly a protector down the road—not her little brother. She should hold you in admiration and awe and be afraid to ask you about yourself. If she ever does, then brief aloof answers are what you feed her.

If you love her like a child, she will return respect and admiration. That’s all you can ask. Don’t hope for her to understand you—no man should ever want that.

Women don’t want your soul, just your love. When they say you’re cold, unavailable, distant, or whatever complaint in those veins, they don’t mean they want to know you better, but rather that your love is not enough for them.

Love is doing the right thing even if it hurts her in the moment. Love is truly caring even if it means being harsh. Love is accepting that she doesn’t have the capacity to love you like you love her.

Women are mirrors that reflect the love you have for yourself—they have limited ability to create love or anything else for that matter.

Only men can create.

I appreciate the point you're making dude, but you missed my point entirely. I'm not complaining that the girls I meet are too self-centered or whatever; of course that's a given; what I'm saying is that they talk to me in a way that's so listless and devoid of any attempt to make a connection, the only two possibilities are them being really, really, REALLY dumb and boring, or them being totally uninterested in me. In either case I have zero motivation to try and push the interaction forward. I know many of you still go for the bang in the former case, but that's not for me. I just don't think the benefit outweighs the cost.

To be honest dude, I think most guys here would agree that few women you game and meet give really spectacular responses to anything you say. They might agree noddingly or say yes I totally understand, but that is likely more a response to you giving her the tingles then actually resonating your thoughts with hers.

I have an LTR of over 2 years who is head over heels for me and there will never be an evening where I can dump everything inside my head on the plate for her to consider. Information overload would overtake her and she will go silent or change the topic. It is kind of sad to think this way but the way I deal with it is to remember that how I perceive things and how she perceives things are 2 completely different realities. I think there are some guys who have met women out there who can do this but the other thing to consider is is that what you really want out of your partner/chick?

Anyways dude - my advice if you are feeling low is to try a new venture, buy a gun or a bow and learn to shoot, try brazilian jiu jitsu. Like most guys said, a new environment can work wonders for a fella....and usually stir up some new trim as a bonus.

Post: #24

"Her reaction when I'm with a girl- Look me dead in the eye and smile warmly
It's quite the catch 22."

I had 18 yo girls doing that shit to me when I was with my wife. WTH!!! Fucking predators.

Post: #25

Quit online and start approach in real life, travel, learn a foreign language...
Problem solved.