Post: #1

I assume most on this forum are fairly young?

I am 48 years old and British. I look and dress far younger though. 5ft 9in, slim, athletic with a Mediterranean look.

Anyway I would like to share my brutally honest experience of (attempting) pulling ladies whilst on holiday at my age, or gaming as it seems to be called on here

Over the last 3 years I have travelled to –

Bulgaria, Turkey, Spain and Crete.

My biggest obstacles to success have been the sheer time energy and logistics in trying to find single girls to actually engage with and then the fact that most of them wouldn’t drink any or much alcohol. I must add here that I am looking for attractive women from about 30-50. I am realistic about this and actually don’t find very young women that attractive to talk to or engage with. Not that I would turn one down I might add, should the opportunity arise

Bulgaria.

In Varna I had several dates with one very pretty 29 year old Bulgarian girl, meal out, day at the beach, evening on a park bench over-looking the cliff to the sea, lots of passionate kissing etc.

Got her back (after much difficulty) on the last night of my stay to my ground floor apartment but she headed straight for the terrace/balcony and didn’t want anymore wine. She couldn’t read my intentions any clearer, doh! It was almost has though she had read the script. Would have been a month or so of dating before she put out.

Golden Sands, Varna (went early June)

I had 16 nights. Resort was not very busy but consisted of mainly very young German people and German bars playing German music.

I couldn’t find one decent bar to operate from. I wanted a small club or bar. Somewhere I could hitch up a bar stool at a bar and then talk to women as they approached the bar or mingled. Somewhere fairly busy with a little bit of dance floor, bit of party music etc etc. Perfect for me. I never found anywhere like that, which is a consistent and frustrating theme throughout all 5 holidays.

The hotel I was staying was completely dead too. Mainly older couples and decaying flesh in swim suits – nice!

After about 14 nights of just wandering around aimlessly, I eventually just settled at a circular bar in the resort centre, somewhat resigned to my fate! Anyway out of nowhere two older Polish girls (35 years old-ish) sat next to me and it was on!
I could tell they were both interested and after a few drinks I was confidently escorting them, laughing and giggling one in each hand to the nightclub, a short walk around the corner.

Truth is neither were particularly stunners. About average maybe 5 or sixes. But I was just glad of the company.

In the club I was alternating, dancing and flirting with one and then going back and forward between both of them to keep them both interested. Eventually one of them got a bit pissed off and asked me -Look which one of us do you like ?

I must confess to getting a little bit cocky and actually thinking in terms of the 3sum. Anyway off I trundle to the toilet and by the time I get back they have gone. Instead of being upset I just laughed to myself, at least I had a good time and some engagement!

This is the sort of situation that on holiday that should have been occurring 2 or 3 times a night not once in 16 days!

Turkey – Marmaris ( September )

Stayed in a crap, dingy hotel in the British section of Marmaris. Full of Brits but low mentality and from a certain demographic.

Had the inconvenience of loud thumping music every night but not any of the advantages. The British part of the resort was virtually empty, lots of bars with mainly couples, 2 or 3 in a bar, that sort of thing.

The sea front promenade was much classier and full of nice bars and restaurants. However as in Golden Sands, couldn’t find a bar to operate from. I came here in 1998 with two mates and we used to go to the fun pubs at the sea front, but they have all gone now.

This is what they have now….
They have bars, but they are all seated. Round tables, chairs around them. They don’t want you coming to the bar, they don’t want you moving around. They want you at a table and serving you drinks.

In the meantime they are providing entertainment. A group of Turks doing dance routines, dressing up in drag, singing etc etc. Anything to keep you routed to the table whilst they milk the holiday maker for drinks for as long as possible. Every single bar is the same, same formula, every single one played that song – small box, round box, feed the pidgeons, spank the monkey etc etc. Naff Butlins holiday camp crap.

In addition most of the people sat down are couples or families. Even if (on the rarest occasion) I spotted a single woman or a couple of women sat together it’s hard to get an in or angle to talk to them. They are not coming to the bar for a drink, they are not mingling or coming on to a dance floor they are routed to a table, manipulated by Turks, who are slavering all over them even the fat, really un attractive Brits - of which by the way, were in abundance.

There is of course Bar Street in Marmaris, full of clubs charging crazy prices for drinks and music volume so loud you can hardly talk, not an ideal environment for my pulling style.

Spent most of the holiday playing killer pool for money against local Turks at a Sports bar called Cheers. My game with the ladies was at a Zero but my pool playing was at a 10 and I ended up coming home most nights with more money in my pocket, then I went out with.

For daytime I tried infiltrating all the local swimming pools from each complex to try and spot a couple of girls on holiday or a single by themselves, but most were very quiet - mainly couples and families.

I did have one Tinder date with an older woman but I didn’t fancy her when I met her and ended up legging it when she went to get some fags, cowardly I know!

I had mentioned to one of the Turkish guys that I wasn’t having any luck with the ladies and he offered to help out. He inferred he had an angle or some sort of in with the Russians, he happened to speak a little Russian too.

I took him up on the offer and we headed to the beach. I assumed were going to a hotel or something where he had some connections, how wrong I was.

To give you some context, he was around my age, about 48. Turkish, short around 5ft 6in, not fat but not particularly good looking or athletic.

We hit the beach and then he approaches (cold) 2 girls that looked to me barely older then about 22. Working along the promenade in their bikinis.

He is speaking in Russian and quite frankly I am a little bit embarrassed and getting ready to walk away, assuming the inevitable. I don’t know what he said or what Jedi night mind tricks he was playing, but the next thing I know we are walking along with them down the beach to a section with a nice jetty going out to sea and cushions on the deck etc. We end up having a drink. He tells one of the Russian girls that he will put suntan lotion on her and continues to apply it to her back, legs and bottom. He hands the lotion to me and instructs me to do the same with the other Russian girl.

I oblige and apply the lotion to her back and legs and then down to her bottom and even spank her bottom playfully which made them both giggle. I imagine doing the same thing in the UK and how I would be arrested for sexual harassment within about 10 mins, but when in Rome and all that

We eventually part ways and my Turkish wing man tells me that he they have agreed to have dinner with us later. I laugh and say yeah right, look it was a good experience but they won’t turn up.

Anyway me and my Turkish wing man turned up outside their hotel later that night and much to my surprise they did turn up. We go out for dinner, have a great meal, they have wine with the meal, a good sign! We then take them for drinks at the top of the castle that over-looks the whole of Marmaris and the marina, the scenery and ambience from the top are stunning and conducive to gaming and seduction. We then hit the buffers, they both want orange juice!

Nothing happens that night and I end up paying more than my fair share for the drinks and the food and I begin to question the modus operandi of my Turkish wing man.
He tells me the next day that we should hire a car, take some booze and take the girls into the hills at night time. I get the feeling that he is trying to manipulate both me and the girls and feel uneasy about this and who is going to pay for it and so bail out.

So some interesting experiences but again no sex and extremely limited opportunities to engage the game. Part 2 coming up….

Post: #2

Man, your persistence is admirable but you urgently need a 180° change in your strategy, not to mention a change in your travel destinations.

Post: #3

Any suggestions on both counts? How do you mean on strategy? Cheers Steve

Post: #4

(09-17-2018 12:06 PM)tillbor69 Wrote:  I am 48 years old and British. I look and dress far younger though.

yes of course, you didn't have to mention that.

Post: #5

I found Roosh's new book pretty helpful. It's perfect for players that wouldn't or aren't ready to do the 'run and stop' method of daygaming a lot of people recommend.

There's an appendix on travel too ('Love Tourism').

Post: #6

Interesting read, thus far. Dare I say, your choice of destinations seems rather poor and ill-though-out, if chosen with the intent of quick lays. Given some of your experiences it sounds as if you're reasonably good looking which is a massive boost and given your interest in a slightly older demographic you should be having no problems in many countries. I'd assume you' are poor at initiating, given that you seem reasonably capable of sustaining interest once in.

If I were you I'd peruse through the travel thread, choose a suitable spot in South America, possibly meet up with some members and have fun without focusing too much on the end game. Sex will be a natural product of putting yourself out there in a suitable location.

Post: #7

(09-17-2018 01:02 PM)tillbor69 Wrote:  Any suggestions on both counts? How do you mean on strategy?

You want strategy, my friend? OK, here is my honest advice: stop chasing (to no avail) "giggling 35 years old women" in Eastern Europe, go instead to SEA to chase (and, thanks Lord, gladly fuck) 23 years old women. Or if you're tough and speak Spanish, go to Colombia and merrily fuck cute 26 years old Latinas.

At like, 48 years of age, Europe is not for you anymore, unless you're a rock-star with insane game and massive bank account. Go have fun in SEA or even China, or in Colombia or Cuba - the exact destination depending on money and tastes and level of game and tolerance of shitty infrastructure.

For it is a sad reality of 21st century life, in the West: "older" men have to leave the West if they want to still have fun and feel alive. So set sail, old chap, and remember "Death closes all - but something near the end, Some work of noble note, may yet be done - Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods."

So come on, OP, it's not too late to seek a newer world (and newer pussy)!

Post: #8

(09-17-2018 01:14 PM)MANic Wrote:  Interesting read, thus far. Dare I say, your choice of destinations seems rather poor and ill-though-out, if chosen with the intent of quick lays. Given some of your experiences it sounds as if you're reasonably good looking which is a massive boost and given your interest in a slightly older demographic you should be having no problems in many countries. I'd assume you' are poor at initiating, given that you seem reasonably capable of sustaining interest once in.

If I were you I'd peruse through the travel thread, choose a suitable spot in South America, possibly meet up with some members and have fun without focusing too much on the end game. Sex will be a natural product of putting yourself out there in a suitable location.

You are spot on with many of your observations. I am very new to this forum but find the way the process is broken down and analysed in such detail quite fascinating.

I work in a sales environment and the psychology I use (with about 25 years experience) is very similar. Its all about the initial approach, the rapport, the timing, controlling and manipulating the situation and closing the sale in a natural way without it being contrived or forced. The only observation that you were incorrect with was my initiation. It's never been better, in terms of approach timing, creativity etc.

My issue is lack of opportunities to actually engage with right demographic and the significant shift (from my experience anyway) from even 10 years ago in the way women perceive an older guy. I am really not doing anything different from 10 years ago and have hardly changed physically. In that 10 year period by the way, when internet dating first came on the scene I bedded on estimate over 300 women (over 10 years) As brutally honest as I have been in my original post I am being genuine with this statement, not all stunners I must confess but some good quality there too. Much younger people who are finding it easy (pretty much like I did at there age) might assume that it will never change but it does.

I spent hours on trip adviser looking at destinations, feedback etc, but obviously looking at the wrong type of info. I will write part 2, and I am open to suggestions in a pragmatic way, hence the joining of this site and the posted thread.

Post: #9

(09-17-2018 01:26 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 01:02 PM)tillbor69 Wrote:  Any suggestions on both counts? How do you mean on strategy?

You want strategy, my friend? OK, here is my honest advice: stop chasing (to no avail) "giggling 35 years old women" in Eastern Europe, go instead to SEA to chase (and, thanks Lord, gladly fuck) 23 years old women. Or if you're tough and speak Spanish, go to Colombia and merrily fuck cute 26 years old Latinas.

At like, 48 years of age, Europe is not for you anymore, unless you're a rock-star with insane game and massive bank account. Go have fun in SEA or even China, or in Colombia or Cuba - the exact destination depending on money and tastes and level of game and tolerance of shitty infrastructure.

For it is a sad reality of 21st century life, in the West: "older" men have to leave the West if they want to still have fun and feel alive. So set sail, old chap, and remember "Death closes all - but something near the end, Some work of noble note, may yet be done - Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods."

So come on, OP, it's not too late to seek a newer world (and newer pussy)!

Shit that's depressing, but maybe the reality...

Post: #10

(09-17-2018 12:06 PM)tillbor69 Wrote:  I must add here that I am looking for attractive women from about 30-50. I am realistic about this and actually don’t find very young women that attractive to talk to or engage with. Not that I would turn one down I might add, should the opportunity arise

Just my $0.02 cents, and this might be just me, but maybe get your testosterone checked?

Since I went on TRT my "wouldn't turn them down" attitude became "WOULD turn them inside out". Testosterone is cheap af.. feels good too.

Hell if I found myself preferring women 30-50 and not finding young women attractive I'd actually start with a CAT scan rather than a hormone panel.

Post: #11

(09-17-2018 01:40 PM)tillbor69 Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 01:14 PM)MANic Wrote:  Interesting read, thus far. Dare I say, your choice of destinations seems rather poor and ill-though-out, if chosen with the intent of quick lays. Given some of your experiences it sounds as if you're reasonably good looking which is a massive boost and given your interest in a slightly older demographic you should be having no problems in many countries. I'd assume you' are poor at initiating, given that you seem reasonably capable of sustaining interest once in.

If I were you I'd peruse through the travel thread, choose a suitable spot in South America, possibly meet up with some members and have fun without focusing too much on the end game. Sex will be a natural product of putting yourself out there in a suitable location.

You are spot on with many of your observations. I am very new to this forum but find the way the process is broken down and analysed in such detail quite fascinating.

I work in a sales environment and the psychology I use (with about 25 years experience) is very similar. Its all about the initial approach, the rapport, the timing, controlling and manipulating the situation and closing the sale in a natural way without it being contrived or forced. The only observation that you were incorrect with was my initiation. It's never been better, in terms of approach timing, creativity etc.

My issue is lack of opportunities to actually engage with right demographic and the significant shift (from my experience anyway) from even 10 years ago in the way women perceive an older guy. I am really not doing anything different from 10 years ago and have hardly changed physically. In that 10 year period by the way, when internet dating first came on the scene I bedded on estimate over 300 women (over 10 years) As brutally honest as I have been in my original post I am being genuine with this statement, not all stunners I must confess but some good quality there too. Much younger people who are finding it easy (pretty much like I did at there age) might assume that it will never change but it does.

I spent hours on trip adviser looking at destinations, feedback etc, but obviously looking at the wrong type of info. I will write part 2, and I am open to suggestions in a pragmatic way, hence the joining of this site and the posted thread.

The 300 women in 10 years was during what period?......98-08 or 08-18?......UK only?

Post: #12

(09-17-2018 12:06 PM)tillbor69 Wrote:  I assume most on this forum are fairly young?

I am 48 years old and British. I look and dress far younger though. 5ft 9in, slim, athletic with a Mediterranean look.

Anyway I would like to share my brutally honest experience of (attempting) pulling ladies whilst on holiday at my age, or gaming as it seems to be called on here

Over the last 3 years I have travelled to –

Bulgaria, Turkey, Spain and Crete.

My biggest obstacles to success have been the sheer time energy and logistics in trying to find single girls to actually engage with and then the fact that most of them wouldn’t drink any or much alcohol. I must add here that I am looking for attractive women from about 30-50. I am realistic about this and actually don’t find very young women that attractive to talk to or engage with. Not that I would turn one down I might add, should the opportunity arise

Bulgaria.

In Varna I had several dates with one very pretty 29 year old Bulgarian girl, meal out, day at the beach, evening on a park bench over-looking the cliff to the sea, lots of passionate kissing etc.

Got her back (after much difficulty) on the last night of my stay to my ground floor apartment but she headed straight for the terrace/balcony and didn’t want anymore wine. She couldn’t read my intentions any clearer, doh! It was almost has though she had read the script. Would have been a month or so of dating before she put out.

Golden Sands, Varna (went early June)

I had 16 nights. Resort was not very busy but consisted of mainly very young German people and German bars playing German music.

I couldn’t find one decent bar to operate from. I wanted a small club or bar. Somewhere I could hitch up a bar stool at a bar and then talk to women as they approached the bar or mingled. Somewhere fairly busy with a little bit of dance floor, bit of party music etc etc. Perfect for me. I never found anywhere like that, which is a consistent and frustrating theme throughout all 5 holidays.

The hotel I was staying was completely dead too. Mainly older couples and decaying flesh in swim suits – nice!

After about 14 nights of just wandering around aimlessly, I eventually just settled at a circular bar in the resort centre, somewhat resigned to my fate! Anyway out of nowhere two older Polish girls (35 years old-ish) sat next to me and it was on!
I could tell they were both interested and after a few drinks I was confidently escorting them, laughing and giggling one in each hand to the nightclub, a short walk around the corner.

Truth is neither were particularly stunners. About average maybe 5 or sixes. But I was just glad of the company.

In the club I was alternating, dancing and flirting with one and then going back and forward between both of them to keep them both interested. Eventually one of them got a bit pissed off and asked me -Look which one of us do you like ?

I must confess to getting a little bit cocky and actually thinking in terms of the 3sum. Anyway off I trundle to the toilet and by the time I get back they have gone. Instead of being upset I just laughed to myself, at least I had a good time and some engagement!

This is the sort of situation that on holiday that should have been occurring 2 or 3 times a night not once in 16 days!

Turkey – Marmaris ( September )

Stayed in a crap, dingy hotel in the British section of Marmaris. Full of Brits but low mentality and from a certain demographic.

Had the inconvenience of loud thumping music every night but not any of the advantages. The British part of the resort was virtually empty, lots of bars with mainly couples, 2 or 3 in a bar, that sort of thing.

The sea front promenade was much classier and full of nice bars and restaurants. However as in Golden Sands, couldn’t find a bar to operate from. I came here in 1998 with two mates and we used to go to the fun pubs at the sea front, but they have all gone now.

This is what they have now….
They have bars, but they are all seated. Round tables, chairs around them. They don’t want you coming to the bar, they don’t want you moving around. They want you at a table and serving you drinks.

In the meantime they are providing entertainment. A group of Turks doing dance routines, dressing up in drag, singing etc etc. Anything to keep you routed to the table whilst they milk the holiday maker for drinks for as long as possible. Every single bar is the same, same formula, every single one played that song – small box, round box, feed the pidgeons, spank the monkey etc etc. Naff Butlins holiday camp crap.

In addition most of the people sat down are couples or families. Even if (on the rarest occasion) I spotted a single woman or a couple of women sat together it’s hard to get an in or angle to talk to them. They are not coming to the bar for a drink, they are not mingling or coming on to a dance floor they are routed to a table, manipulated by Turks, who are slavering all over them even the fat, really un attractive Brits - of which by the way, were in abundance.

There is of course Bar Street in Marmaris, full of clubs charging crazy prices for drinks and music volume so loud you can hardly talk, not an ideal environment for my pulling style.

Spent most of the holiday playing killer pool for money against local Turks at a Sports bar called Cheers. My game with the ladies was at a Zero but my pool playing was at a 10 and I ended up coming home most nights with more money in my pocket, then I went out with.

For daytime I tried infiltrating all the local swimming pools from each complex to try and spot a couple of girls on holiday or a single by themselves, but most were very quiet - mainly couples and families.

I did have one Tinder date with an older woman but I didn’t fancy her when I met her and ended up legging it when she went to get some fags, cowardly I know!

I had mentioned to one of the Turkish guys that I wasn’t having any luck with the ladies and he offered to help out. He inferred he had an angle or some sort of in with the Russians, he happened to speak a little Russian too.

I took him up on the offer and we headed to the beach. I assumed were going to a hotel or something where he had some connections, how wrong I was.

To give you some context, he was around my age, about 48. Turkish, short around 5ft 6in, not fat but not particularly good looking or athletic.

We hit the beach and then he approaches (cold) 2 girls that looked to me barely older then about 22. Working along the promenade in their bikinis.

He is speaking in Russian and quite frankly I am a little bit embarrassed and getting ready to walk away, assuming the inevitable. I don’t know what he said or what Jedi night mind tricks he was playing, but the next thing I know we are walking along with them down the beach to a section with a nice jetty going out to sea and cushions on the deck etc. We end up having a drink. He tells one of the Russian girls that he will put suntan lotion on her and continues to apply it to her back, legs and bottom. He hands the lotion to me and instructs me to do the same with the other Russian girl.

I oblige and apply the lotion to her back and legs and then down to her bottom and even spank her bottom playfully which made them both giggle. I imagine doing the same thing in the UK and how I would be arrested for sexual harassment within about 10 mins, but when in Rome and all that

We eventually part ways and my Turkish wing man tells me that he they have agreed to have dinner with us later. I laugh and say yeah right, look it was a good experience but they won’t turn up.

Anyway me and my Turkish wing man turned up outside their hotel later that night and much to my surprise they did turn up. We go out for dinner, have a great meal, they have wine with the meal, a good sign! We then take them for drinks at the top of the castle that over-looks the whole of Marmaris and the marina, the scenery and ambience from the top are stunning and conducive to gaming and seduction. We then hit the buffers, they both want orange juice!

Nothing happens that night and I end up paying more than my fair share for the drinks and the food and I begin to question the modus operandi of my Turkish wing man.
He tells me the next day that we should hire a car, take some booze and take the girls into the hills at night time. I get the feeling that he is trying to manipulate both me and the girls and feel uneasy about this and who is going to pay for it and so bail out.

So some interesting experiences but again no sex and extremely limited opportunities to engage the game. Part 2 coming up….

We've been here before.
This shouldn't be in the travel section, this should be in the newbie section.

OP you should be spending more time reading and less time posting.

Blaming bar layouts, resort destinations, relying on alcohol on your dates..

we've all had our struggles and we've all had our low points but the crucial thing is recognising where we start from and what is our contribution, what we can control.
There have been posters on here claiming that they are better than 95% of any competition.
Further digging reveals that >may not be the case<

OP, I will be frank.

You have zero game.
You come off as cheesy and unpleasant.
If you cannot convert even the situations you do describe setting up then you need to start looking at your own game.
Which is more, you need to look at yourself.
You need to change your life and change yourself.
Someone else in your body at your age could convert plenty of 30-50 year olds in European resorts, even plenty of 22 year olds.

Strip things right down and start learning.

If you're not willing to do that then resign yourself to romancing ugly Polish women so badly they wait until you are gone to disappear.

Post: #13

I think the OP made a huge effort to have fun and get laid and I support him, while most of the guys here call him newbie and amateur.
He's been to so many places and 'gamed' or hung out with so many women. Russian women ARE NOT EASY even the older ones, so his failure to get bangs is not related to his gaming skills. Russian women take time and are not same night lays. Especially, the older ones on holiday are very difficult.
OP, props for your efforts, you just need to calibrate your game a bit and choose better targets and you'll be fine even in Europe. Going to the Philippines and bang 3s & 4s is not really rewarding, you can do that in Europe.

Post: #14

(09-19-2018 02:02 AM)weallbang5s Wrote:  I think the OP made a huge effort to have fun and get laid and I support him, while most of the guys here call him newbie and amateur.
He's been to so many places and 'gamed' or hung out with so many women. Russian women ARE NOT EASY even the older ones, so his failure to get bangs is not related to his gaming skills. Russian women take time and are not same night lays. Especially, the older ones on holiday are very difficult.
OP, props for your efforts, you just need to calibrate your game a bit and choose better targets and you'll be fine even in Europe. Going to the Philippines and bang 3s & 4s is not really rewarding, you can do that in Europe.

Well, mr. *We-all-bang-5s*

I'm sure you are a decent guy and I'm sure that so is the OP and I'm sure that if we all met we'd all be good friends HOWEVER I am Not going to pull my punches out of a misplaced sense of kindness.

If you and OP manage to set up a separate sub-forum entitled "the Thirst forum" detailing the 'huge' efforts involved in banging the otherwise un-fuckable middle aged dregs of female Russian tourism
=then=
I promise to post ***there*** celebrating the step by step, drink-by-drink seduction process involved and all those even-partial successes with wrinkled bitter slavic cat ladies who have their children in the next door room when/if you bang them.

Until then, read the forum rules and guidelines, especially around the need to accumulate so many posts in the newbie forum before venturing forth putting the world to rights and running down the members who try to give their honest and helpful advice on where would be better to go and the members in the Phils who are apparently, according to you, banging 3 and 4s all the time.

Because at the moment, if the OP doesn't seem to know that he doesn't even know.. and if you are championing huge(?) and yet totally misplaced efforts then it does seem that older forum members are correct when they say that.. "the internet is not sending its best".

Post: #15

Not trolling when I say Weallbang5s is fairly spot on. I’m in the Philippines and every month or so I’ll meet up with a group of expats. They’re all in their late 20s, early 30s, and not autists, and they’ve all said the girls have gotten way harder than just a year or two ago. Even pulling a 6 is not exactly “easy” anymore. I can’t speak for other countries although I’m sure it’s mostly the same elsewhere.

Post: #16

(09-19-2018 12:27 AM)Bienvenuto Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 12:06 PM)tillbor69 Wrote:  I assume most on this forum are fairly young?

I am 48 years old and British. I look and dress far younger though. 5ft 9in, slim, athletic with a Mediterranean look.

Anyway I would like to share my brutally honest experience of (attempting) pulling ladies whilst on holiday at my age, or gaming as it seems to be called on here

Over the last 3 years I have travelled to –

Bulgaria, Turkey, Spain and Crete.

My biggest obstacles to success have been the sheer time energy and logistics in trying to find single girls to actually engage with and then the fact that most of them wouldn’t drink any or much alcohol. I must add here that I am looking for attractive women from about 30-50. I am realistic about this and actually don’t find very young women that attractive to talk to or engage with. Not that I would turn one down I might add, should the opportunity arise

Bulgaria.

In Varna I had several dates with one very pretty 29 year old Bulgarian girl, meal out, day at the beach, evening on a park bench over-looking the cliff to the sea, lots of passionate kissing etc.

Got her back (after much difficulty) on the last night of my stay to my ground floor apartment but she headed straight for the terrace/balcony and didn’t want anymore wine. She couldn’t read my intentions any clearer, doh! It was almost has though she had read the script. Would have been a month or so of dating before she put out.

Golden Sands, Varna (went early June)

I had 16 nights. Resort was not very busy but consisted of mainly very young German people and German bars playing German music.

I couldn’t find one decent bar to operate from. I wanted a small club or bar. Somewhere I could hitch up a bar stool at a bar and then talk to women as they approached the bar or mingled. Somewhere fairly busy with a little bit of dance floor, bit of party music etc etc. Perfect for me. I never found anywhere like that, which is a consistent and frustrating theme throughout all 5 holidays.

The hotel I was staying was completely dead too. Mainly older couples and decaying flesh in swim suits – nice!

After about 14 nights of just wandering around aimlessly, I eventually just settled at a circular bar in the resort centre, somewhat resigned to my fate! Anyway out of nowhere two older Polish girls (35 years old-ish) sat next to me and it was on!
I could tell they were both interested and after a few drinks I was confidently escorting them, laughing and giggling one in each hand to the nightclub, a short walk around the corner.

Truth is neither were particularly stunners. About average maybe 5 or sixes. But I was just glad of the company.

In the club I was alternating, dancing and flirting with one and then going back and forward between both of them to keep them both interested. Eventually one of them got a bit pissed off and asked me -Look which one of us do you like ?

I must confess to getting a little bit cocky and actually thinking in terms of the 3sum. Anyway off I trundle to the toilet and by the time I get back they have gone. Instead of being upset I just laughed to myself, at least I had a good time and some engagement!

This is the sort of situation that on holiday that should have been occurring 2 or 3 times a night not once in 16 days!

Turkey – Marmaris ( September )

Stayed in a crap, dingy hotel in the British section of Marmaris. Full of Brits but low mentality and from a certain demographic.

Had the inconvenience of loud thumping music every night but not any of the advantages. The British part of the resort was virtually empty, lots of bars with mainly couples, 2 or 3 in a bar, that sort of thing.

The sea front promenade was much classier and full of nice bars and restaurants. However as in Golden Sands, couldn’t find a bar to operate from. I came here in 1998 with two mates and we used to go to the fun pubs at the sea front, but they have all gone now.

This is what they have now….
They have bars, but they are all seated. Round tables, chairs around them. They don’t want you coming to the bar, they don’t want you moving around. They want you at a table and serving you drinks.

In the meantime they are providing entertainment. A group of Turks doing dance routines, dressing up in drag, singing etc etc. Anything to keep you routed to the table whilst they milk the holiday maker for drinks for as long as possible. Every single bar is the same, same formula, every single one played that song – small box, round box, feed the pidgeons, spank the monkey etc etc. Naff Butlins holiday camp crap.

In addition most of the people sat down are couples or families. Even if (on the rarest occasion) I spotted a single woman or a couple of women sat together it’s hard to get an in or angle to talk to them. They are not coming to the bar for a drink, they are not mingling or coming on to a dance floor they are routed to a table, manipulated by Turks, who are slavering all over them even the fat, really un attractive Brits - of which by the way, were in abundance.

There is of course Bar Street in Marmaris, full of clubs charging crazy prices for drinks and music volume so loud you can hardly talk, not an ideal environment for my pulling style.

Spent most of the holiday playing killer pool for money against local Turks at a Sports bar called Cheers. My game with the ladies was at a Zero but my pool playing was at a 10 and I ended up coming home most nights with more money in my pocket, then I went out with.

For daytime I tried infiltrating all the local swimming pools from each complex to try and spot a couple of girls on holiday or a single by themselves, but most were very quiet - mainly couples and families.

I did have one Tinder date with an older woman but I didn’t fancy her when I met her and ended up legging it when she went to get some fags, cowardly I know!

I had mentioned to one of the Turkish guys that I wasn’t having any luck with the ladies and he offered to help out. He inferred he had an angle or some sort of in with the Russians, he happened to speak a little Russian too.

I took him up on the offer and we headed to the beach. I assumed were going to a hotel or something where he had some connections, how wrong I was.

To give you some context, he was around my age, about 48. Turkish, short around 5ft 6in, not fat but not particularly good looking or athletic.

We hit the beach and then he approaches (cold) 2 girls that looked to me barely older then about 22. Working along the promenade in their bikinis.

He is speaking in Russian and quite frankly I am a little bit embarrassed and getting ready to walk away, assuming the inevitable. I don’t know what he said or what Jedi night mind tricks he was playing, but the next thing I know we are walking along with them down the beach to a section with a nice jetty going out to sea and cushions on the deck etc. We end up having a drink. He tells one of the Russian girls that he will put suntan lotion on her and continues to apply it to her back, legs and bottom. He hands the lotion to me and instructs me to do the same with the other Russian girl.

I oblige and apply the lotion to her back and legs and then down to her bottom and even spank her bottom playfully which made them both giggle. I imagine doing the same thing in the UK and how I would be arrested for sexual harassment within about 10 mins, but when in Rome and all that

We eventually part ways and my Turkish wing man tells me that he they have agreed to have dinner with us later. I laugh and say yeah right, look it was a good experience but they won’t turn up.

Anyway me and my Turkish wing man turned up outside their hotel later that night and much to my surprise they did turn up. We go out for dinner, have a great meal, they have wine with the meal, a good sign! We then take them for drinks at the top of the castle that over-looks the whole of Marmaris and the marina, the scenery and ambience from the top are stunning and conducive to gaming and seduction. We then hit the buffers, they both want orange juice!

Nothing happens that night and I end up paying more than my fair share for the drinks and the food and I begin to question the modus operandi of my Turkish wing man.
He tells me the next day that we should hire a car, take some booze and take the girls into the hills at night time. I get the feeling that he is trying to manipulate both me and the girls and feel uneasy about this and who is going to pay for it and so bail out.

So some interesting experiences but again no sex and extremely limited opportunities to engage the game. Part 2 coming up….

We've been here before.
This shouldn't be in the travel section, this should be in the newbie section.

OP you should be spending more time reading and less time posting.

Blaming bar layouts, resort destinations, relying on alcohol on your dates..

we've all had our struggles and we've all had our low points but the crucial thing is recognising where we start from and what is our contribution, what we can control.
There have been posters on here claiming that they are better than 95% of any competition.
Further digging reveals that >may not be the case<

OP, I will be frank.

You have zero game.
You come off as cheesy and unpleasant.
If you cannot convert even the situations you do describe setting up then you need to start looking at your own game.
Which is more, you need to look at yourself.
You need to change your life and change yourself.
Someone else in your body at your age could convert plenty of 30-50 year olds in European resorts, even plenty of 22 year olds.

Strip things right down and start learning.

If you're not willing to do that then resign yourself to romancing ugly Polish women so badly they wait until you are gone to disappear.

Okay well you are making some pretty bold and somewhat sweeping statements there based on not a whole lot of information to go on. My posts were self deprecating, tongue-in-cheek off the cuff observations, quite were you find all the information from that to provide lifestyle advice on changing my life is a little beyond me. Some of your advice is rather generic, vague and sweeping. If anybody of the people that I employ in the sales-related business that I successfully run, heard someone suggesting that I change my life and myself, they would probably look at you a bit gone out.

You have never met me, don't know what I look like, how I come across, my conversational style, my energy, timing, level of emotional intelligence and so on and so forth.

However I do concede that there maybe elements that I can certainly improve on. And of course that's what drew my attention to the site.

You infer that given the situations I had (in fact I had many more in part 2 of my thread) I could have made more of them. So okay I will play devils advocate. so what would you have done? Let me paint the picture and you tell me what techniques I could have employed to get a better result?

Lets take the situation in Marmaris that I write about.

So I am on the double date with my Turkish wing man with 2 Russian girls. We take them out to dinner and then go on another bar and they order orange juice. So were are at the point.

Remember I don't speak and Russian and they don't speak any English. My Turkish wing man is doing all the translation, which by the way actually ended up as being quite fun as they laughed as I looked at creative ways to get my sense of humour across to them.

In actual fact after we had left the roof top bar of the castle in Marmaris, we went to visit a water fountain display not far from the bar. As the 2 Russian girls took pictures I spoke to my Turkish wing-man more candidly. I said to him "you have done this a million times haven't you" He laughed and agreed.

We then went on to his friends Jewellers shop that he used to part own. Of course the girls loved trying on all the jewellery and rings, all part of the game to enhance our status etc etc.

They then got a taxi home. The next day Yusuf (not his real name but easier then calling him my Turkish wing man) suggested to me on whats app that we hire a car and take them to hills and take some booze.

He inferred that the girls were all up for it. From their body language the night before I highly doubted that was the case.

I didn't like the sound of. I might have been completely wrong in his intention, but taking some girls to a quiet place and getting them drunk is not what I feel comfortable with. You inferred that I was an unpleasant person. I think had I been such a person I would have gone along with the idea, but I declined the offer, which by the way really pissed Yusuf off.

Now let me tell you about more about Yusuf. He lives in another city in Turkey but comes back to spend 3 months of the year in Marmaris. He is well known by the local Turks in the resort, admired and even revered for what you all refer to on this forum as his game.

That's all he does, daytime approaches on the beach, with a lot of success. Of course he is there for 3 months, so has time and logistics on his side.

So okay, you are inferring that I have a poor game, what would you have done?

Would you have been more assertive when they were getting the taxi home on the first the date? Maybe google something assertive through translator maybe?

It wasn't as though Yusuf came up trumps either. So he is a lousy game player too? Does he need lifestyle advice too?

Or pragmatically thinking, are there just some situations that are just not on? That might have been on given different circumstances, logistics etc.

Can we not be intelligently philosophical about the process without inferring that if it doesn't come up trumps you are failure, or your game is weak?

I will take your advice and start to read the newbie section, and I love the art of reasoned debate.

My name is Steve by the way. I don't want to hide behind an Avatar .

Post: #17

Regarding the "easy Philippinos" , I remember 3-4 years ago, they were somewhat easy targets- the fresh off the boat ones- even in London and banged a couple nurses. 5s ofc. Now they have disappeared from the dating sites, since the hookup culture gone mainstream in London.

Post: #18

(09-19-2018 03:42 AM)OnlySightseeing Wrote:  Not trolling when I say Weallbang5s is fairly spot on. I’m in the Philippines and every month or so I’ll meet up with a group of expats. They’re all in their late 20s, early 30s, and not autists, and they’ve all said the girls have gotten way harder than just a year or two ago. Even pulling a 6 is not exactly “easy” anymore. I can’t speak for other countries although I’m sure it’s mostly the same elsewhere.

I think its safe to say that if pulling a 6 in Phil's is not easy then it won't be easy anywhere else.

Perhaps it has gotten worse but if it has so has then it is worse everywhere else too.

Post: #19

Let's accept for the sake of argument that I am wrong in my assertions as to your game etc. etc.

Happy to go into that later, in the meantime..

None of this should need saying.

I would have preferred leaving it to more experienced members to say this but:

1. Do Not just READ the Newbie Forum - until you get to 250 posts, POST ANY NEW THREADS in the Newbie forum.

2. READ the Forum Guidelines before posting. This forum is an excellent place, on the flip side - people get banned all the time.

3. READ the whole forum, there is gold upon gold in there. That will help you more than posting new threads outside the newbie forums.

4. DO NOT USE REAL NAMES - Roosh is banned from entering the Uk for writing a satirical article, his books have just been banned on Amazon. The advice on this forum is to use burner emails and anonymity. That is not idle paranoia. I know people with good jobs and families who know Roosh. Many people can be affected if people start dealing in even first names.

5. This is not a You Tube page you can just go on and comment on.
This is a rare resource for many men and there are many good people on here with great insights. Many are leaving unfortunately because of the antics of newcomers.
You thought you would "give this site a try."
DON'T 'give it a try.' READ the guidelines.
READ the many many volumes of good advice. DON'T get banned.
BECOME an experienced poster with, hopefully, better game and a better life.

Post: #20

(09-19-2018 09:12 PM)Bienvenuto Wrote:  Let's accept for the sake of argument that I am wrong in my assertions as to your game etc. etc.

Happy to go into that later, in the meantime..

None of this should need saying.

I would have preferred leaving it to more experienced members to say this but:

1. Do Not just READ the Newbie Forum - until you get to 250 posts, POST ANY NEW THREADS in the Newbie forum.

2. READ the Forum Guidelines before posting. This forum is an excellent place, on the flip side - people get banned all the time.

3. READ the whole forum, there is gold upon gold in there. That will help you more than posting new threads outside the newbie forums.

4. DO NOT USE REAL NAMES - Roosh is banned from entering the Uk for writing a satirical article, his books have just been banned on Amazon. The advice on this forum is to use burner emails and anonymity. That is not idle paranoia. I know people with good jobs and families who know Roosh. Many people can be affected if people start dealing in even first names.

5. This is not a You Tube page you can just go on and comment on.
This is a rare resource for many men and there are many good people on here with great insights. Many are leaving unfortunately because of the antics of newcomers.
You thought you would "give this site a try."
DON'T 'give it a try.' READ the guidelines.
READ the many many volumes of good advice. DON'T get banned.
BECOME an experienced poster with, hopefully, better game and a better life.

Okay, okay calm down, we are not discussing military grade plutonium production here. We are discussing what should be a fun subject that enriches our lives.

There is a fine balance between having a set of guidelines and encouraging a culture (I understand and respect that and get the point now!) and then sounding like a traffic warden with Jack boots on, otherwise it starts to get - dare i say it, well, a bit cultish which is not pleasant or healthy.

In your rush to act all important and be the first person to put the NEWBIE in his place with your block capitals and so and so forth, did it not occur to you to actually show some warmth and emotional intelligence and welcome to me to the forum?

That would have been nice

This forum is supposed about healthy empowerment is it not?

Post: #21

(09-19-2018 02:02 AM)weallbang5s Wrote:  I think the OP made a huge effort to have fun and get laid and I support him, while most of the guys here call him newbie and amateur.
He's been to so many places and 'gamed' or hung out with so many women. Russian women ARE NOT EASY even the older ones, so his failure to get bangs is not related to his gaming skills. Russian women take time and are not same night lays. Especially, the older ones on holiday are very difficult.
OP, props for your efforts, you just need to calibrate your game a bit and choose better targets and you'll be fine even in Europe. Going to the Philippines and bang 3s & 4s is not really rewarding, you can do that in Europe.

Thanks I appreciate your comments. I am humble and all for self improvement and will go back to basics and re-tune, re-calibrate to be the best I can. I just wanted an avenue to get it to vent it, get off my chest. I may have put in the wrong section and done things back to front, but I hope it at least made an interesting read.

Post: #22

Tillbor the problem is you’re 48 but acting like an 18 year old. When you hook a hottie on vacation you should sink your teeth in. Don’t count euros and don’t count whether she’s drinking coffee or alcohol. You need to show her a good time over a few dates and become her holiday mini romance.

This is if you’re gonna hit these summer vacation spots. Which for your age (and increasingly mine) are all about finding the lone stragglers.

You may miss the drunk teenagers of your youth but those girls aren’t gonna wanna sleep with you in 99.9999% of cases.

Post: #23

Beirut, I don't know your age, but why don't you ask yourself? Would you or others here have the courage and the balls to do what the OP does in your 48?

Post: #24

(09-20-2018 04:54 PM)Beirut Wrote:  Tillbor the problem is you’re 48 but acting like an 18 year old. When you hook a hottie on vacation you should sink your teeth in. Don’t count euros and don’t count whether she’s drinking coffee or alcohol. You need to show her a good time over a few dates and become her holiday mini romance.

This is if you’re gonna hit these summer vacation spots. Which for your age (and increasingly mine) are all about finding the lone stragglers.

You may miss the drunk teenagers of your youth but those girls aren’t gonna wanna sleep with you in 99.9999% of cases.

^^^ This is about the most magnanimous critique there could be of this.

A lot of what you say, OP, (and you say a LOT) is just cringingly embarrassing behavior for a 48 year old man.

Post: #25

(09-18-2018 11:36 PM)seaofp Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 01:40 PM)tillbor69 Wrote:  

(09-17-2018 01:14 PM)MANic Wrote:  Interesting read, thus far. Dare I say, your choice of destinations seems rather poor and ill-though-out, if chosen with the intent of quick lays. Given some of your experiences it sounds as if you're reasonably good looking which is a massive boost and given your interest in a slightly older demographic you should be having no problems in many countries. I'd assume you' are poor at initiating, given that you seem reasonably capable of sustaining interest once in.

If I were you I'd peruse through the travel thread, choose a suitable spot in South America, possibly meet up with some members and have fun without focusing too much on the end game. Sex will be a natural product of putting yourself out there in a suitable location.

You are spot on with many of your observations. I am very new to this forum but find the way the process is broken down and analysed in such detail quite fascinating.

I work in a sales environment and the psychology I use (with about 25 years experience) is very similar. Its all about the initial approach, the rapport, the timing, controlling and manipulating the situation and closing the sale in a natural way without it being contrived or forced. The only observation that you were incorrect with was my initiation. It's never been better, in terms of approach timing, creativity etc.

My issue is lack of opportunities to actually engage with right demographic and the significant shift (from my experience anyway) from even 10 years ago in the way women perceive an older guy. I am really not doing anything different from 10 years ago and have hardly changed physically. In that 10 year period by the way, when internet dating first came on the scene I bedded on estimate over 300 women (over 10 years) As brutally honest as I have been in my original post I am being genuine with this statement, not all stunners I must confess but some good quality there too. Much younger people who are finding it easy (pretty much like I did at there age) might assume that it will never change but it does.

I spent hours on trip adviser looking at destinations, feedback etc, but obviously looking at the wrong type of info. I will write part 2, and I am open to suggestions in a pragmatic way, hence the joining of this site and the posted thread.

The 300 women in 10 years was during what period?......98-08 or 08-18?......UK only?

That's an interesting point. It almost developed simultaneously with the development of the internet and faster broadband, from about 1998 to about 2008, and maybe a bit later. Most of that number from the internet dating sites. But a few from normal day to day meets, mainly bars/nightclubs. probably 70/30 split.

I remember websites like yahoo dating and the one I used the most Udate. I used to love Udate. In the same way that people tend to use Tinder and Whats App in conjunction, I used to use Udate and MSN messenger. as a combination I sorely miss MSN messenger, you could see the live video stream of the other person but still had to type the conversation, it somehow made it more fun and exciting.

Anyway I remember back in 1998, when it all started. I was 28 at the time and sharing a house with 2 mates. I started going on an abnormal number of dates and they were both puzzled, and of course it was a bit taboo or not really cool, but I eventually told them and most of mates started doing it as well.

I remember my very first internet date, in which I ended up with getting laid on the first night and marvelling at the brilliance of the internet. It was so easy back then and I mean easy.

I also recall, on one occasion that without even seeing a profile photo, going all the way to Holland for the weekend to see an American girl that was living out there in a language school. Meeting her at the railway station, going back to her apartment (next to a canal, would you believe it) and getting laid within about an hour of being there. It was like having the keys to a sweet shop. I just happened to be the right age at the right time when most people weren't in on it.

I think my best year was 2005. I met a stunning 8/9 Polish girl that wasn't getting much attention from her Polish boyfriend. I pulled her at a nightclub and we saw each other a few times, before she got cold feet and went back to her BF.

Fortunately this was after she gave me the best ever Blowjob I have ever had whilst watching the World Snooker final and a night of amazing sex.

In that same year, I was having some filthy conversations with a MILF who I think was about 44 or something like that on MSN messenger. I was 35 at the time.

The next day I get a request from a new contact to add on to MSN messenger. I was a bit suspicious as to who it was and she seemed to know a lot about me and the conversation from the previous day. Anyway it turns out to be the 18 year daughter of the mother who I had the filthy MSN conversations with. It turns out that she had read all the conversation threads and was TURNED ON by the discussion and fancied me. She eventually turned on the webcam and there was she this cute little petite blonde with the tiniest mini-skirt and pert boobs spilling out of her minuscule low cut vest.

Next thing I know I am picking her up at the end of her street and taking her back to my flat. She was seriously that cliched nympho you read about and dream about.

I never did meet the mother!

I have had some amazing experiences and have been fairly prolific, but remember that's over a stretch of about 10 years maybe even longer.

I am finding it about 90% harder now, maybe due to lots of complex factors such as my age and sheer number of people on these sites.