Post: #1

Saw this tweet by Cernovich and thought it was interesting.

People who've traveled significantly internationally, is this true in your experience? Compared to the other countries you've visited, how does the US stack up?

Some observations I've made:

1. Our airports are an absolute disgrace. The planes don't take off on time. The buildings are falling apart. The employees are surly and the security scans are invasive. We look terrible to the outside world.
2. America feels significantly less safe than the places in Asia I've been to. One night in Asia, I was angry and insomniac and stormed out of my apartment at 3:00 AM, wandering the streets randomly. I ended up blundering into a homeless encampment. Nobody paid me any attention and I just walked right through it unmolested. If that happened in the US I'd be lucky to escape with my life.
3. US Supermarkets are astonishingly well stocked. The sheer variety of stuff you can get at a simple Ralphs is unbelievable, and there's one on every corner.
4. Road infrastructure is pretty bad, and public transit is non-existent. Taking the bus is a last resort, as opposed to a default mode of transportation.
5. Housing in America is bigger and nicer than Asia, and not significantly more expensive unless you're trying to live in a major city or California. My apartment would be considered palatial in Asia.
6. It's extremely difficult to make friends in the United States. Asia has a ton of little bar and places in every neighborhood, where you can stop in and have a drink, and it's expected that you'll chat with the people around you. American bars are unbelievably expensive, and they're set up so that everyone sits at their own table and doesn't interact with the people around them.
7. The American healthcare system is terrifying. I've had Asian friends with 7 figure bankrolls tell me they don't want me to come to the US 'cause they're worried about being sent to the hospital and ending up with a gigantic bill. I can't say that they're wrong.
   

What kinds of things have you guys noticed when comparing the US to the rest of the world? Is the US a dump?

Post: #2

I haven't been there in a while, but tend to agree from what I remember.

Namely, due to multi ethnic demographics, no one has long term skin in the game. When the next guy is out to exploit as much as they can, trust disappears.

Everything is firstly avoided due to cost, when pushed, its built as cheap and easy as possible for no purpose than to ensure a profit margin.

The built environment is functional, but lacks soul, a statement that says "we are here", because in a generation or two, they won't be, they'll be usurped by third world in grates.

The parts of Australia that are like that resemble it too, nice, spacious public amenity replaced by apartments resembling battery chickens, overseen by third world immigrant mayor's.

Post: #3

Don't we have enough of these, "America sucks" threads?

Haven't we beaten this topic dead?

To answer the question: no, it's not.

Quote:No one visits America and says," this is the future"

I've never heard anyone say that, yet there are people from all over the world who would give their left nut to live here.

Post: #4

(01-14-2019 05:21 PM)The Beast1 Wrote:  Don't we have enough of these, "America sucks" threads?

Well, maybe. I'm curious in hearing answers from people who've traveled widely.

Quote:To answer the question: no, it's not.
I've never heard anyone say that, yet there are people from all over the world who would give their left nut to live here.

How does it stack up against other places you've been to?

Post: #5

People are very cool in the southern parts of America, we run the world, and can kick any military ass, and women from foreign countries will literally have sex with you for a chance to come here. America my not be perfect, and may be in decline-but currently young fertile women from other countries want to move here so..... USA! America, Fuck Yeah!

Post: #6

Those shiny new airports and public infrastructure projects always seem to be in countries trying to prove something. Like all those fake buildings they put up in China before the Olympics.

Post: #7

(01-14-2019 04:51 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Some observations I've made:

1. Our airports are an absolute disgrace. The planes don't take off on time. The buildings are falling apart. The employees are surly and the security scans are invasive. We look terrible to the outside world.
   
   Planes don't take off on time? Are you kidding me. Considering the size and scope of airline infrastructure that we enjoy at extremely competitive prices and VERY safe travel I'd say we're setting a global standard. People love to complain about lack of quality in air service but these are the same people who wants the absolute cheapest tickets. US airline companies have some of the best safety records. They're not perfect but in context of the millions of flights, it's damn good.
2. America feels significantly less safe than the places in Asia I've been to. One night in Asia, I was angry and insomniac and stormed out of my apartment at 3:00 AM, wandering the streets randomly. I ended up blundering into a homeless encampment. Nobody paid me any attention and I just walked right through it unmolested. If that happened in the US I'd be lucky to escape with my life.
   
   Some American neighborhoods are very dangerous, but most neighborhoods are fine. This is true anywhere in the world. Most crime is committed against their own kind in neighborhoods. Rarely do tourists and outsiders get attacked. When that happens the media blows it up. Most middle and upper middle class neighborhoods in America are safe and provide QOL that's unmatched world over.
3. US Supermarkets are astonishingly well stocked. The sheer variety of stuff you can get at a simple Ralphs is unbelievable, and there's one on every corner.
   
   I've traveled the world over and lived in Japan and also a true shithole third world country. Food quality is best in the US if you can afford it and live in the right neighborhood. Most places in the world you can't get fresh produce like you do in America. Sure some places in the world have great local produce but that's not consistent across the entire country. In America if you can afford to go to a Whole Foods or upper end grocery store you can always buy fresh produce. Little harder in midwest and "food deserts" as Michele Obama called it, which despite how much I hate her, I agree with.
4. Road infrastructure is pretty bad, and public transit is non-existent. Taking the bus is a last resort, as opposed to a default mode of transportation.
   
   Again road infastracture is very good if you look at the scale and quantity of the US. Lots of variation between states. Crossing from NC to SC on I-95 is a day and night difference in road quality going from smooth asphalt to cracked dilapidated roads. One spends more on roads and taxes a bit more, other believes in "reduced government with less taxes."
5. Housing in America is bigger and nicer than Asia, and not significantly more expensive unless you're trying to live in a major city or California. My apartment would be considered palatial in Asia.
   
   Housing is definitely bigger and better in the US for quality due to competition for raw materials and contractors, but it's prohibitively expensive in most major cities. This is probably the biggest down point of America, but it makes sense because the real estate market responds to the demand. With lots of jobs and opportunities the housing price naturally goes up.
6. It's extremely difficult to make friends in the United States. Asia has a ton of little bar and places in every neighborhood, where you can stop in and have a drink, and it's expected that you'll chat with the people around you. American bars are unbelievably expensive, and they're set up so that everyone sits at their own table and doesn't interact with the people around them.
   
   I agree here. Lack of communities and work focused "hustle" culture in America means people have less time for spontaneous and unplanned encounters with strangers, acquaintances, and friends. This type of interaction is what makes people bond and help develop lasting relationships. This is why people stay strong friends with college buddies, everybody lived together and had plenty of free time to drop in on each other and do stuff "just for fun." Modern grind makes us tired and weary at the end of the day. Everything has to be planned, which sucks the energy out of it. Even if you have something planned you probably have to get in your car and drive 30min to get to see them.
   
   Commuters living in the burbs of large cities live in a silo'd cycle of commute, office staring at computer, commute, errands, go to sleep tired, wake up, repeat.
7. The American healthcare system is terrifying. I've had Asian friends with 7 figure bankrolls tell me they don't want me to come to the US 'cause they're worried about being sent to the hospital and ending up with a gigantic bill. I can't say that they're wrong.
   
   American healthcare system is designed to benefit corporations. Health care and insurance corporations make good money. Large corporations provide good healthcare by providing subsidies. If you don't have decent insurance through work then you're SOL. Individuals buying personal coverage for self or family or poor people who can't afford insurance are royally fucked. Companies are not providing health care out of the kindness of their heart either, they get tax benefits for providing coverage to their employees and the exact amount they give is calculated to the hundredths of a cent by actuaries and HR accountants. Plus if you're not sick then you can be working to do your part for the bottom line.
   
   

What kinds of things have you guys noticed when comparing the US to the rest of the world? Is the US a dump?

I've traveled non stop all over the world for work and pleasure for the last 10 years. Lived in japan and a third world country. Lived on both coasts of the US in major cities, and also in the midwest and the south. Bottom line: US has the most opportunities to make money and build a career, but that comes at the price of commuting long hours, traveling to client sites, not having a hometown as you move every couple of years for work and promotion opportunities, and worst of all living a high stress lifestyle.

I make good money and save well over 40% of my gross income that's going into "storage" and investments that are accruing over time. I have financial goals and routinely re-evaluate them to make sure my savings and investment goals make sense. Despite my consistent increase in annual earnings I've always kept my COL the same (inflation adjusted). Yes even in expensive metropolitan areas. I've always lived with roommates to cut costs down. I never share a wall between bedrooms and always have my own bathroom. I make sure to meet people ahead of time and always room with over 35 working professionals. This avoids 90% of roommate problems. Rest you gotta deal with in situ and part of the compromise of having roommates. But I've saved tens of thousands over the past 10 years living with roommates. This also allows me to spend more money on quality food. I don't mind shopping at Whole Foods and spending an extra one to two hundred per month. Of all the things I spend money, food is the only thing that's going into my body that will directly affect my health. Why cut back on that?

Making enough money to have more freedom and ability to take care of yourself without relying on somebody else is the carrot. I'm still on my journey to achieve that independence. Until then I'm gonna hustle in the US and take vacations and travel around whenever I can.

Post: #8

Post: #9

America is #1... Well, maybe Dump #1

Post: #10

I think a lot of this depends on where you live. The idea that the whole of America is in decline may be valid, but that has more to do with the law of averages and certain regions/states rapidly degenerating in comparison to others. For example, we all know California is on its way to becoming a third world shithole. Whether that's the poor urban planning, water mismanagement, wildly irresponsible spending, etc.

On the other hand, you have beautiful areas of the country that are lesser known but booming. Raleigh-Durham in North Carolina comes to mind. Same with Tampa. Areas of the country that aren't population centers, but are on the rise from a social and an economic perspective.

Now I can't say I'm the most well traveled guy here, but my experiences abroad have shown me that we have it pretty good. The first time I went to Argentina, I went to some of the barrios south of Buenos Aires, and what I saw in the eyes of the people there I will never forget.

It wasn't hunger, nor was it longing. It was fear. You could see it in the sideways glances, the defensive body language, and the positioning close to an exit.

They were afraid.

I could see this too in more urbanized areas like Paris. Walking down from Montmartre, which is supposedly the creme of Paris, I witnessed it. I saw the fear in the eyes of two young women who carefully avoided a crowd of rowdy Arabic speakers.

I saw it in Istanbul, where woman would avoid my glances for fear of inviting the ire of the men in their lives.

I can say many things about America, but ultimately I can say that living here, you never live in fear. Be it because of our ability to own weapons, or the competent police force we have defending us, I have never seen true fear in America. Even in the projects of Chicago, or the urban wasteland that is California, an escape to a better place is never far away. On the other hand, those stuck in the barrios in Argentina, or the favelas in Brazil have no such escape.

America may be on the decline. It may not be the best country in the world. It may have politicians on both sides of the aisle seeking to exploit the system.

But ultimately, what sets America apart from every other country in the world is that the people of America aren't afraid. That, to me, makes America the greatest country in the world.

Post: #11

(01-14-2019 05:23 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  How does it stack up against other places you've been to?

I've been to and traveled extensively around Europe for work so let's address each point you've made.

(01-14-2019 04:51 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  [*]Our airports are an absolute disgrace. The planes don't take off on time. The buildings are falling apart. The employees are surly and the security scans are invasive. We look terrible to the outside world.

LAX, Logan, JFK, SFO, O'hare, Detroit, and Dulles are dreams to fly in and out of. LAX sometimes is an nightmare to get into because of LA traffic, but the place is a tightly run ship. Unless there's a massive snow storm on the east coast, my flights are always on time and i've never lost luggage (knock on wood).

Contrast that with some of Europe's airports and it makes me shake my head. Shittiest airport experience was Luton in the UK. I paid 100 quid more to fly out of Stansted.

(01-14-2019 05:23 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  [*]America feels significantly less safe than the places in Asia I've been to. One night in Asia, I was angry and insomniac and stormed out of my apartment at 3:00 AM, wandering the streets randomly. I ended up blundering into a homeless encampment. Nobody paid me any attention and I just walked right through it unmolested. If that happened in the US I'd be lucky to escape with my life.

I've also heard women say that college campuses feel like there are rape gangs all over the place. Doesn't mean it's true.

(01-14-2019 05:23 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  [*]US Supermarkets are astonishingly well stocked. The sheer variety of stuff you can get at a simple Ralphs is unbelievable, and there's one on every corner.

I can get more variety of goods in American supermarkets, in bigger quantities, and at far better prices than anywhere I've ever seen abroad. Yeah we may be fat, but who cares. With the trade war going on, meat products are even cheaper.

(01-14-2019 05:23 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  [*]Road infrastructure is pretty bad, and public transit is non-existent. Taking the bus is a last resort, as opposed to a default mode of transportation.

I drive a sports car as my daily driver with a firm and harsh suspension. The roads here in souther california are a dream to drive on. The roads back east are just as fine. Europes are ok too!

(01-14-2019 05:23 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  [*]Housing in America is bigger and nicer than Asia, and not significantly more expensive unless you're trying to live in a major city or California. My apartment would be considered palatial in Asia.

And depending on where you want to live, even cheaper to with less taxes.

(01-14-2019 05:23 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  [*]It's extremely difficult to make friends in the United States. Asia has a ton of little bar and places in every neighborhood, where you can stop in and have a drink, and it's expected that you'll chat with the people around you. American bars are unbelievably expensive, and they're set up so that everyone sits at their own table and doesn't interact with the people around them.

While this resonated with me when I lived in New England, this was not my experience in New York or Los Angeles.

(01-14-2019 05:23 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  [*]The American healthcare system is terrifying. I've had Asian friends with 7 figure bankrolls tell me they don't want me to come to the US 'cause they're worried about being sent to the hospital and ending up with a gigantic bill. I can't say that they're wrong.
[/list]

Not as terrifying as the 6 month wait my wife had for an oncologist in the NHS system in the UK.

I can book an appointment for the same week for a doctor here in the US. Since I don't have healthcare, I can even negotiate prices for services to be paid with cash. My healthcare sharing ministry pays me back in a month.

Wholly disagree with your opinion and Cernovich's that America is a dump.

Post: #12

It's not my opinion, it's Cerno's opinion.

I don't think it's a dump. I think it probably will be in a decade or two, but it's rather nice now if you're smart.

Post: #13

(01-14-2019 04:51 PM)SamuelBRoberts Wrote:  Saw this tweet by Cernovich and thought it was interesting.

People who've traveled significantly internationally, is this true in your experience? Compared to the other countries you've visited, how does the US stack up?

Some observations I've made:

1. Our airports are an absolute disgrace. The planes don't take off on time. The buildings are falling apart. The employees are surly and the security scans are invasive. We look terrible to the outside world.
2. America feels significantly less safe than the places in Asia I've been to. One night in Asia, I was angry and insomniac and stormed out of my apartment at 3:00 AM, wandering the streets randomly. I ended up blundering into a homeless encampment. Nobody paid me any attention and I just walked right through it unmolested. If that happened in the US I'd be lucky to escape with my life.
3. US Supermarkets are astonishingly well stocked. The sheer variety of stuff you can get at a simple Ralphs is unbelievable, and there's one on every corner.
4. Road infrastructure is pretty bad, and public transit is non-existent. Taking the bus is a last resort, as opposed to a default mode of transportation.
5. Housing in America is bigger and nicer than Asia, and not significantly more expensive unless you're trying to live in a major city or California. My apartment would be considered palatial in Asia.
6. It's extremely difficult to make friends in the United States. Asia has a ton of little bar and places in every neighborhood, where you can stop in and have a drink, and it's expected that you'll chat with the people around you. American bars are unbelievably expensive, and they're set up so that everyone sits at their own table and doesn't interact with the people around them.
7. The American healthcare system is terrifying. I've had Asian friends with 7 figure bankrolls tell me they don't want me to come to the US 'cause they're worried about being sent to the hospital and ending up with a gigantic bill. I can't say that they're wrong.
   

What kinds of things have you guys noticed when comparing the US to the rest of the world? Is the US a dump?

I would agree with all of this aside from #1. Most of the airports I travel through are pretty good and I rarely experience flight delays. Just don't fly through O'Hare in the winter.

Flight delays are usually due to bad weather. Bad weather in one area of the country sets up a propagation through the system that causes delays everywhere else.

Post: #14

It could also be possible that forum members (MikeCF included!) have a shifted perception of the rest of the world because of the strength of the dollar.

If OP lived in Asia on their average salary, would it seem as nice?

Post: #15

The healthcare sharing ministry is the way to go in the US. Decent monthly premiums, can go and see any physician with no bullshit PPO/HMO networks to deal with along with reasonable deductibles. Funny how no one in socialized medical systems want to talk about their wait times for treatment.

I don't think it's that hard to make friends in the US but certain areas are easier than others no doubt.

America has it's problems for sure but I don't think its a dump. Cernovich is just being his usual negative self (so much for having a gorilla mindset).

Post: #16

(01-14-2019 06:06 PM)redbeard Wrote:  It could also be possible that forum members (MikeCF included!) have a shifted perception of the rest of the world because of the strength of the dollar.

If OP lived in Asia on their average salary, would it seem as nice?

Nailed it. That's a very important point to consider.

Those of us spending time abroad are very likely drawing on the strength of the dollar. Those of us that have the economic mobility to travel often tend to gravitate to additional amenities that are available abroad at a lower cost that may not otherwise be within reach in the US.

In a way I find it deeply depressing that I made more in 2018 than some families abroad will make in their entire lives, especially considering my age.

Being the top 1% anywhere is an experience, and it's much easier to be in that class when you're abroad especially considering the high concentration of wealth in the United States.

(01-14-2019 06:08 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  America has it's problems for sure but I don't think its a dump. Cernovich is just being his usual negative self (so much for having a gorilla mindset).

Cosign. Seems like there's a lot of negativity going around these days.

Post: #17

Manila is/was a dump. I don't think the US really compares. That taxi drive into the city for the first time, fat ghetto guy showing off his belly. Kowloon was/is a dump. Staying on the 40th floor in a 2x2 m2 hotel room with no window in a building full of shady nigerians. That's a dump.

Forgot one, bringing someone with a maybe heart attack to an open air hospital in Saigon. Dump.

Post: #18

It probably is hyperbole. If he is serious he doesn't seem to have a lot of credibility, unless he knows something I don't.

Relative to Australia/NZ, the friendships with Americans who weren't rabid leftists have always been deep and meaningful and Americans always care about other people. Aussies and Kiwis do not.

The American health insurance system seems really bad. However the healthcare system seems world-class.

Post: #19

America's infrastructure is behind the curve (I left that broad on purpose), but our real asset has always been our people, our values, and our processes (republic, constitution, etc.). Healthcare, buildings/roads, internet could all be much better if we invested smarter and our government actually functioned. We have some of the most caring and hardest-working people in the world. Things seem to be changing for the better (despite all the pessimism on here and as far left as we seem to have veered), we'll see what happens. The media is broken, and they've broken our government, but we all know the river is full of twists and turns. People do seem to be waking up and it's righting the proverbial ship.

Yeah you're going to find a lot of exceptions and bad apples sprinkled in, but there's a reason so many people risk it all to come live here. And this is coming from someone who 5+ years ago was looking to leave the states and never come back.

So no, America is not a dump. But it does have parts of it that are rotten to the core (i.e. SF), that need to be cut out before the next generation can flourish.

Post: #20

As opposed to what exactly?

Pre-migrant Germany, Austria or France, pre-Euro Ireland, or 1980s-90s Japan then yes perhaps you might have some argument there.
Nowadays, I can't point at a place that I would rather be than in the U.S.

Quote:Our airports are an absolute disgrace. The planes don't take off on time. The buildings are falling apart. The employees are surly and the security scans are invasive. We look terrible to the outside world.

TSA is a waste of taxpayer money but in all honestly it is a 15 min added inconvenience at worst. Otherwise:
Foreign international > U.S. international. You basically get what you pay for.
U.S. domestic >>>>>>>>>>>> Foreign domestic. Flying domestically in most foreign countries is the nut low of anything you can experience in life in comparison to the U.S., especially in the Asias despite their great international service. Heaven help you if you are doing an LCC.

Post: #21

(01-14-2019 05:27 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  People are very cool in the southern parts of America

While I agree with this and southerners are probably my favorite people in the world, I think certain cities and areas of the south have been overrun by miserable narcissistic northerners from areas like the Rust Belt, Jersey and New England who have brought their toxic culture with them.

In some parts of the south there are not that many of them so the few who are there assimilate into the local culture and become more easygoing, chill and cool. In other parts of the south there are plenty of them and they end up defining the culture so its culturally like being in Pennsylvania or New Jersey.

Post: #22

America is an enormous place that unlike every other enormous place is almost completely habitable.

It also is fractured racially and increasingly sexually, so certain things in certain places will not be very well run.

1. Airports: Yes, LAX, JFK, and O'Hare suck. However, DFW and Denver are really nice. Given the sheer scale of what it has to deal with, Atlanta is actually quite good. It's just sadly dominated by Delta Airlines and has to deal with corruption due to Georgia's racial problems. Even DC's Dulles may stop sucking once the metro line to it is complete. Though given it does not go to the terminal that remains to be seen.

2. To put it quite bluntly, if you avoid non asian minority neighborhoods America is quite safe. You can get apps on your smart phone to help you avoid them. Though it is true that NAM neighborhoods are often terrifyingly dangerous, even for their residents.

3. In Italy, they eat Italian food. In France, they eat French food. In America, we eat whatever we feel like. It's also far safer than anywhere else, including places like Japan.

4. Roads in America, including interstates, are built and kept by the local jurisdictions. I have been on appalling roads in inner city Baltimore that will rip up tires and ruin steering. I have also driven on West Virginia interstates, which majestically weaved through the mountains, that left the autobahn in the dust. As for public transport, due to inter racial violence starting in the 1960s much of it was abandoned. Things are slowly starting to change due to better law enforcement. As for buses, Seattle and Pittsburgh have great bus systems.

5. If you keep out of the out of control expense cities: New York, LA, SF, DC, Boston, Seattle, maybe a couple of others, housing is very cheap in the USA.

6. Depends where you are in the USA. People in DC are status obsessed. In Nashville, everyone is very closed in but polite. In Boston, everyone is very closed in but rude. However, New Yorkers are quite friendly at the bar, but not when you get in their way getting to work.

7. Every time we try to have market based reforms they get blocked because voters are fed an endless stream of propaganda about the supposed benefits of government healthcare. If we could get rid of the employer tax benefit, open insurance between states, and reform tort America's health costs would fall dramatically.

Post: #23

Yea an no. If you visit the 2 biggest cities, NY and LA, you might come away with the impression that it is indeed a dump. And you wouldn't be wrong because those cities are absolute fucking shitholes. From the broken subway systems to the smell of piss on the street, it's hard to believe you're in a first world country.

Post: #24

I've been a lot of places. America is not a dump at all.

Just to tackle the points you made.

1. On-airport quality, with the exception of rich countries in Europe like Germany, Scandinavia, Switzerland, U.S. Airports compete just fine. Atlanta and Dallas come to mind specifically of having pretty nice airports. The TSA sucks but security is pretty annoying everywhere else too. I got my bags searched at in Buenos Aires, Stockholm and at train stops in Thailand.

2. America is less safe then Europe and Asia but safer than everywhere else.

3. Not just food but the vast amount of retail options. All cheaper than Europe or Asia.

4. Roads are pretty good in certain parts of the country. They can be awful in the Northeast if you've spent your time there. However, I've yet to be in a county that has large and vast highways as America does.

5. True that. We have by far the largest housing.

6. True that again. However, in many countries, bars are like this as well. Latin America especially.

7. The American health system is amazing if your employer pays for a good health care plan.

Certain places in America really are a dump though. Indian Reservations come to mind. They would make Africa look ok.

Post: #25

Dumb quote. Cernovich obviously hasn't travelled too far if he thinks the US is a dump. You can only make that statement if you're only travelling to the upmarket areas of another country.