Post: #151

Most of it still standing, truly remarkable piece of engineering.

Post: #152

(04-15-2019 05:31 PM)LEMONed IScream Wrote:  Zero rep chumps with not even 100 posts jumping out of the woods to act Hollier Than Thou and recommend caution!

Not suspicious at all.

Sanity is more important than reps. What are you still doing posting? I thought you were going to join the military?

Post: #153

The internet has no chill

Post: #154

(04-15-2019 12:54 PM)Glaucon Wrote:  God's sign

Prepare for antichrist.

Post: #155

In a bizarre twist, a roof fire is alleged to have broken out at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem at almost the same time.

https://www.newsweek.com/notre-dame-fire...ue-1397259

Post: #156

Donno why but it reminded me of the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan that the Taliban blew up....
(ima ijit and cant embed the images)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamyan

I remember having a similar feeling to this day as it sounds like a few of you have expressed ...abet I not being French nor particularly religious but....yea that feeling of loss is hard to describe.

I was in a helicopter running missions in and out of the region the statues stood and remember passing by them a few days before they were destroyed...then a week later passed by the bombed out site and was caught off guard how, as a young man we really kinda let shit go until...huh, yea its gone... and so goes the opportunity to take in something that's irreplaceable, which I'd imagine pisses us off the most.

It's like, its an affront not only to the fact that we never made it a priority to go see and bask in the history that these monuments represented the accomplishments of bygone men..but Fukn angry at both the desecration both to the religious context AND loss of a beautiful piece of historical link to our past...

So began probably the realization about how finite shit is. Much like today to some here I imagine....That Buddhist statue destruction brought home the gravity of war, to a very young and naiive guy I was... the job I was doing over there. It 'woke' me up to the cost our souls would pay, and eventually bring to light that like many young men, I/we hunger to experience as young men to be proven in War in a very misguided way, the way our forefathers were (mine was a WWII, Korean AND Vietnam Veteran...). That may be what some of the feeling some on here are expressing and...its ramifications I hope we are prepared for should this be a nefarious act.

God forbid it was. Truth hopefully will prevail as the alternative isn't going to be pretty. I find solace in reading what most of you write as it help me not feel so alone and despondent...

That there are like-minded men out there.

Stay Frosty Gents.

Post: #157

NBC News reporting there were two fires: "Michel Picaud, from the Friends of Notre Dame organization responsible for the renovation efforts at the cathedral, told NBC News that, to his knowledge, the church's organ and stained glass windows were not damaged. 'The entire roof is fully destroyed,' Picaud said. 'The fire started up near the roof top while another fire started in the north bell tower.'"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/europe/notr...es-n994646

Post: #158

And wait.... There is more!

Article 1:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/04...cathedral/

Article 2:
https://www.rt.com/news/456629-french-ca...s-attacks/

Article 3:
https://www.meforum.org/58238/european-churches

Quote:BREAKING: ON FRIDAY Female Jihadi Jailed Over Attempted Car Bombing Outside Notre Dame Cathedral
Jim Hoft by Jim Hoft April 15, 2019 253 Comments

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On Friday Islamic terrorists Inez Madani was jailed for eight years for her attempted car bombing outside of Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris.
Madani was wounded with a knife in the belly of a police officer during the arrest in 2016.
On Friday she was jailed for eight years in the attempted attack.

The Journal.ie reported:

ONE OF THREE women allegedly involved in a foiled plot in 2016 to blow up a car packed with gas canisters near the Notre Dame cathedral in Paris was today sentenced to eight years in prison by a French court for earlier offences.

Ines Madani, 22, was sentenced following a three-day trial during which she was accused of encouraging would-be jihadists to go to Syria and participate in attacks against France between March 2015 and June 2016.

She used Telegram – an encrypted messaging app widely used by jihadists to communicate.

Judge Isabelle Prevost-Desprez said that Madani was “recruited” by Oumar Diaw, also known as Abou Barrou, an influential jihadist of the Islamic State group.

She used different pseudonyms on social networks, pretending for example to be Abu Souleymane, a jihadist returned from Raqa to carry out attacks in France.

“You had some autonomy in the management of your personality…. Your determination marks your dangerousness,” Prevost-Desprez said.

Quote: Notre Dame fire follows months of arson, vandalism & desecration of French Catholic churches
Published time: 15 Apr, 2019 19:33 Edited time: 15 Apr, 2019 23:37
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Notre Dame fire follows months of arson, vandalism & desecration of French Catholic churches
© REUTERS/Benoit Tessier

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While the world watched in horror at Paris’ historic Notre Dame Cathedral erupting in flames Monday, the fire is only the latest in a series of incidents that have left social media awash in images of heavily damaged churches.

France has been hit with a string of fires at Catholic churches, some of which occurred alongside desecration of sacred objects and acts of vandalism. While the fire at Notre Dame appears to be an accident connected to renovations of the church, the image of the famous spire engulfed in flames is a hard hit on the historically deeply Catholic France, as well as Catholics all over who have seen their religion reeling from devastating scandals, cover-ups and attacks.
Also on rt.com Historic Saint-Sulpice church burns in Paris (VIDEO)

While Notre Dame is undoubtedly the most well-known landmark to be affected, Paris’ second largest church, Saint-Sulpice, briefly burst into flames on March 17, the fire damaging doors and stained glass windows on the building's exterior. Police later reported that the incident had not been an accident.

“The images of flames in Saint Sulpice church this weekend are one more example of the violence committed against Catholics,” said Philippe Gosselin and Annie Genevard of France’s National Assembly, tying the incident into a wider trend of attacks on Catholic places of worship.

Don't jump to conclusions before the facts come out, but keep in mind that churches have been burned across France for the last few months. #NotreDamehttps://t.co/6P6q20CBIn
— Nate Madden (@NateOnTheHill) April 15, 2019

February saw a series of such attacks across France. In one incident, a cross of human excrement was smeared on the wall of the Notre Dame des Enfants in Nimes, the vandals also looting the church and spreading consecrated wafers in the garbage.

The same month, the altar at Saint-Alain Cathedral in Lavaur was set on fire, while statues and crosses were smashed throughout the premises. Two teenagers were later arrested in relation to the incident.
Also on rt.com Catholic churches in France vandalized, set on fire & smeared with excrement (PHOTOS, VIDEO)

In another incident on February 4, a statue of the Virgin Mary was found smashed on the ground at St. Nicholas Catholic Church in Houilles, Yvelines. Just days later, the Eucharist was scattered and the altar cloth soiled at Church of Notre Dame de Dijon.
Also on rt.com Notre Dame fire news

The attacks come at a time when the Church is hurting for sympathy, enwrapped in child sex abuse scandals that have left even the pope declaring “all out battle” on criminal clergy.

Quote:European Churches: Vandalized, Defecated On, and Torched "Every Day"

by Raymond Ibrahim
Gatestone Institute
April 14, 2019
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In February, vandals desecrated and smashed crosses and statues at Saint-Alain Cathedral in Lavaur, France, and mangled the arms of a statue of a crucified Christ in a mocking manner. In addition, an altar cloth was burned. (Image source: Eutrope/Wikimedia Commons)

Countless churches throughout Western Europe are being vandalized, defecated on, and torched.

In France, two churches are desecrated every day on average. According to PI-News, a German news site, 1,063 attacks on Christian churches or symbols (crucifixes, icons, statues) were registered in France in 2018. This represents a 17% increase compared to the previous year (2017), when 878 attacks were registered— meaning that such attacks are only going from bad to worse.

Among some of the recent desecrations in France, the following took place in just February and March:

Vandals plundered Notre-Dame des Enfants Church in Nîmes and used human excrement to draw a cross there; consecrated bread was found thrown outside among garbage.
The Saint-Nicolas Church in Houilles was vandalized on three separate occasions in February; a 19th century statue of the Virgin Mary, regarded as "irreparable," was "completely pulverized," said a clergyman; and a hanging cross was thrown to the floor.
Vandals desecrated and smashed crosses and statues at Saint-Alain Cathedral in Lavaur, and mangled the arms of a statue of a crucified Christ in a mocking manner. In addition, an altar cloth was burned.
Arsonists torched the Church of St. Sulpice in Paris soon after midday mass on Sunday, March 17.

Similar reports are coming out of Germany. Four separate churches were vandalized and/or torched in March alone. "In this country," PI-News explained, "there is a creeping war against everything that symbolizes Christianity: attacks on mountain-summit crosses, on sacred statues by the wayside, on churches... and recently also on cemeteries."

Who is primarily behind these ongoing and increasing attacks on churches in Europe? The same German report offers a hint: "Crosses are broken, altars smashed, Bibles set on fire, baptismal fonts overturned, and the church doors smeared with Islamic expressions like 'Allahu Akbar.'"

Another German report from November 11, 2017 noted that in the Alps and Bavaria alone, around 200 churches were attacked and many crosses broken: "Police are currently dealing with church desecrations again and again. The perpetrators are often youthful rioters with a migration background." Elsewhere they are described as "young Islamists."

Sometimes, sadly, in European regions with large Muslim populations, there seems to be a concomitant rise in attacks on churches and Christian symbols. Before Christmas 2016, in the North Rhine-Westphalia region of Germany, where more than a million Muslims reside, some 50 public Christian statues (including those of Jesus) were beheaded and crucifixes broken.

In 2016, following the arrival in Germany of another million mostly Muslim migrants, a local newspaper reported that in the town of Dülmen, "'not a day goes by' without attacks on religious statues in the town of less than 50,000 people, and the immediate surrounding area."

In France it also seems that where the number of Muslim migrants increases, so do attacks on churches. A January 2017 study revealed that, "Islamist extremist attacks on Christians" in France rose by 38 percent, going from 273 attacks in 2015 to 376 in 2016; the majority occurred during Christmas season and "many of the attacks took place in churches and other places of worship."

As a typical example, in 2014, a Muslim man committed "major acts of vandalism" inside a historic Catholic church in Thonon-les-Bains. According to a report (with pictures) he "overturned and broke two altars, the candelabras and lecterns, destroyed statues, tore down a tabernacle, twisted a massive bronze cross, smashed in a sacristy door and even broke some stained-glass windows." He also "trampled on" the Eucharist.

For similar examples in other European countries, please see here, here, here, here, and here.

In virtually every instance of church attacks, authorities and media obfuscate the identity of the vandals. In those rare instances when the Muslim (or "migrant") identity of the destroyers is leaked, the perpetrators are then presented as suffering from mental health issues. As the recent PI-News report says:

"Hardly anyone writes and speaks about the increasing attacks on Christian symbols. There is an eloquent silence in both France and Germany about the scandal of the desecrations and the origin of the perpetrators.... Not a word, not even the slightest hint that could in anyway lead to the suspicion of migrants... It is not the perpetrators who are in danger of being ostracized, but those who dare to associate the desecration of Christian symbols with immigrant imports. They are accused of hatred, hate speech and racism."

Fucking bastards!! Hope someday they rot in hell!

Post: #159

(04-15-2019 06:13 PM)Manbeline Wrote:  So I ask: for all the beauty and history of Notre Dame, was it serving its purpose? Did it remind men to glorify God and face their eyes towards the eternal? Or had it become just another familiar monument, a tourist attraction largely taken for granted when not being used for photo ops? Surely, given the sad state of France and the rest of (what we can currently barely consider) Christendom, we must regretfully admit that while the building endured for 850 years, Notre Dame was destroyed in the hearts of Western men many years ago. But now Notre Dame has burned, and perhaps the flames will serve as the cathedral's final glorious service to God, by igniting a heretofore forgotten zealous faith in the hearts of men who had grown cold. A revival of the Christian faith in Europe could very well rise from the ashes of its greatest monument. Out of the darkness; light.

I was being baited into an argument about this morning, when someone who has done nothing but disparage the corrupt and Satanic Nature of the Catholic Church was now expecting me to lead a crusade over this. I stated my case as best I could, was accused of passivity, nihilism and a lack of masculinity; realised that it's impossible to sum up the weight of years of experience and infused knowledge that result in seeing both consolation as suffering as gifts from God to be accepted with joy; so shrugged and went up to the Monastery for 7 am mass.

The Father, who I've noted for a long time has that strong sense of detachment from the world, simply said "I'm sure you've seen the news of Notre Dame." He wasn't remotely-upset. "There can be no resurrection without death." I nodded, having innately understood that this this morning.

He smiled "The Pride of Human Endeavor."

Five words containing worlds of understanding. If you don't understand yet, ask for the grace to be able to.

Then we got on with what we are there to do, offer up the sacrifice of the mass. This is why I'm a Catholic: we can do this in a cathedral or in a catacomb, and I've been preparing for the latter for a couple of years now.

----

This is likely-related to this understanding: I talked for about 20 minutes with a 95-year-old deaf nun on Saturday Morning. She was born completely-deaf, has the most eloquent speaking voice I've ever heard, with no trace of deafspeak, and is a joyous soul to be around. Communication is hard, considering her deafness, my beard hiding my lips, and that I'm still in the early stages of being able to read lips reliably.

We were discussing abandonment to divine providence, and that after a point in the process self-abnegation, consolation and suffering become hard to distinguish from each other, and that lead into the higher stages of contemplation.

She walked me to the window, and patted my hand. "Look out there in the Garden. Everything out there is an expression of the Lord and reveals his presence to us."

I nodded. I often exist as this now: say, I'll walk past a tree, notice an awkward, tiny shoot from the weirdest place growing a plum and instantly see the expression of God: "The most unlikely branches on the vine are still capable of producing fruit."

Or I'll walk past some rubble on the ground, consider that, to the world, it would look like garbage to be trodden underfoot, and then be granted with a deep understanding of divine mercy: God can look at what the world thinks is garbage, and see how it could be used for his purpose.

Or I'll see an eagle soaring high above the graveyard by the Hill here, being attacked by a murder of crows, soaring on the breeze in stillness, not the slightest bit bothered by the annoyance, and immediately see the use of complete detachment from the furious distractions of the world.

This way everything you experience become a form of Prayer.

So, the sister and I are standing there, side by side, the elderly Religious holding the hand of a Tattooed Biker Thug, both taking in the beauty around us, existing in the moment. Then she motioned to one side, with a huge smile: "... and of course, there's the graveyard, to remind us that everything we are and can do exists purely by his Grace, and, well," [mischievious smile, bemused whisper] "we're all going to die."

I'll admit I laughed at the truth of this. I then commented that I'd most likely get to Heaven before her, and it would be purely by his Grace, since I've done absolutely-nothing to merit such a gift.

"Well, that's His beauty: none of us do. And I have no doubt you will get there before me, Dear Bosch." She looked over her glasses at me. "Did I ever tell you I'm 95? I'm so, so old."

It was said with such a twinkle in her eye, that I'll admit I was completely-charmed.

She wasn't downcast this morning. She, and the other Sisters, had the Divine Office to pray, and got on with their duty.

Post: #160

(04-15-2019 06:00 PM)Syberpunk Wrote:  

(04-15-2019 05:45 PM)Horus Wrote:  Had anyone considered the possibility that one of the workmen was the arsonist? Or is that getting too far fetched?

Some talk on 4chan about a worker spilling a 5 litre bucket of acetone.....

Might be a clumsy, or malignant, worker - or a "security" guard on site. I mean, everybody who has recently been to Notre-Dame has to have noted that all of these "security guards" at the Cathedral's doors, are ill-tempered youths, from say "very diverse" backgrounds. Wouldn't surprise me to learn that one of them, willingly or not, set our Christian patrimony on fire. An insider job then, I suspect.

Post: #161

Post: #162

(04-15-2019 07:01 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  Or I'll see an eagle soaring high above the graveyard by the Hill here, being attacked by a murder of crows, soaring on the breeze in stillness, not the slightest bit bothered by the annoyance, and immediately see the use of complete detachment from the furious distractions of the world.

No eagle stays forever airborne, though. "Complete detachment" is fine, but only for the precious (and short) moments when the wind blissfully carry us, or the proverbial eagle.

Post: #163

It's sad that such a beautiful monument was burned. I hope we will find the useful idiot(s) who did it quickly.

The timing is crazy.

The real news in France today is Alain Soral condemnation for prison. It's an important debate over free speech. Passion has taken over reason, people are calling for the next crusade in here because Muzzies burned the Cathedral.. lol This is a smokeshow. Lets wait and see who did this. Those who will be found guilty are the useful idiots who were manipulated. Those who did it will never see the inside of a cell. Remember 911?

The important news today in France is Alain Soral condemnation for prison. A case that shows that Justice condemns opinions in some cases and cautions others in all contradiction. Those who go against mainstream are warned. We are not talking about censuring from platforms. They will send you to jail. This is the future in the US since similar legislation is in place.

Post: #164

(04-15-2019 07:10 PM)Going strong Wrote:  No eagle stays forever airborne, though. "Complete detachment" is fine, but only for the precious (and short) moments when the wind blissfully carry us, or the proverbial eagle.

Not under his own power, no.

The more you detach, the lower you make yourself, the less you understand you can actually do, the more He carries you.

This is how the little Fledgling who dreams of flying with the big eagles towards the sun, but whose own wings lacks the power to lift him up, eventually gets there by trust and abandonment.

This is important to know, because very, very few of us are Eagles, and it's safer to assume you're not.

This is what I meant about not being able to tell consolation from suffering: what seems to us like the apparent absence of wind doesn't mean the wind isn't still there, and what might seem like falling is giving us the strength to soar.

Hard to explain until you get there, I guess.

Post: #165

Reminds me of 8:08 :

Post: #166

Oh, I see that 'something happened' in Paris today.

(04-15-2019 04:46 PM)Roosh Wrote:  

This event was also a crime against Climate Change...

Post: #167

(04-15-2019 05:53 PM)Jetset Wrote:  

That is a truly affecting photo.

Fuck, man. I can't imagine what I'd feel, being the first guy to walk into that. All the ashes and smoke and ruin, all the dread and sadness of the day. People crying and praying in the streets, shocked and distressed. The faithful are in mourning and even people who don't share the faith, or any faith whatsoever, are distraught and saddened at the loss of history and art and innovation, and you just steel yourself to see centuries of work completely, irretrievably destroyed.

Then the doors open, and you see the cross is still standing.

Post: #168

Special People still hold Middle Ages grudges, that come out under stress.

Post: #169

They will restore the lower area and there will be a minaret on that bitch by October.

Post: #170

Why does alien Bill Kristol feel the need to make that point right now?
If a famous Muslim, Hindu or Jewish monument was burning, would he do the same?

it's almost as if he's trying to say "woah, hold on there, Christians, don't let this incident get you too passionate and united, calm down and resume your lethargy as soon as possible, like a good goy"

Post: #171

Post: #172

(04-15-2019 07:01 PM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  ...

The Father, who I've noted for a long time has that strong sense of detachment from the world, simply said "I'm sure you've seen the news of Notre Dame." He wasn't remotely-upset. "There can be no resurrection without death." I nodded, having innately understood that this this morning.

He smiled "The Pride of Human Endeavor."

...

Or I'll walk past some rubble on the ground, consider that, to the world, it would look like garbage to be trodden underfoot, and then be granted with a deep understanding of divine mercy: God can look at what the world thinks is garbage, and see how it could be used for his purpose.

Percy Shelley's "Ozymandias"

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert... near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed;

And on the pedestal these words appear:
'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings;
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.




Horace Smith's "Ozymandias"

In Egypt's sandy silence, all alone,
Stands a gigantic Leg, which far off throws
The only shadow that the Desert knows:—
"I am great OZYMANDIAS," saith the stone,
"The King of Kings; this mighty City shows
"The wonders of my hand."— The City's gone,—
Naught but the Leg remaining to disclose
The site of this forgotten Babylon.

We wonder,—and some Hunter may express
Wonder like ours, when thro' the wilderness
Where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace,
He meets some fragment huge, and stops to guess
What powerful but unrecorded race
Once dwelt in that annihilated place.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias



'My name is Ozymandias, king of kings;
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!'



Scorpion (and others here) are right: the true church of God resides within the heart.

We can squabble and quibble about all else.

Structures rise and fall.



T.S. Eliot

EAST COKER
(No. 2 of 'Four Quartets')

I

In my beginning is my end. In succession
Houses rise and fall, crumble, are extended,
Are removed, destroyed, restored, or in their place
Is an open field, or a factory, or a by-pass.
Old stone to new building, old timber to new fires,
Old fires to ashes, and ashes to the earth
Which is already flesh, fur and faeces,
Bone of man and beast, cornstalk and leaf.
Houses live and die: there is a time for building
And a time for living and for generation
And a time for the wind to break the loosened pane
And to shake the wainscot where the field-mouse trots
And to shake the tattered arras woven with a silent motto.

In my beginning is my end. Now the light falls...



Whether you believe in God or not. If you want to make a higher connection with 'something', then speak those words out loud and make them manifest.

They are not a curse. They will do you no harm. They may even bring a strange kind of comfort to you. Like some kind of strange prayer. The word of God made manifest, by your own voice.

In my beginning is my end...

In my end is my beginning...

Post: #173

Post: #174

Guys, the cathedral didn't burn to the ground. Could have been much worse. And there's simply no evidence of arson or terrorism.

Post: #175

Think about it. The cross of Christ still stands.