Post: #1

I've had issues over the last decade with my back and it now pretty
much goes out a few times every year. It's gotten worse and worse,
especially since I've gotten really sedentary over the last few years as I
focused on working online.

But earlier this year I started swimming on a daily basis and my back felt
completely different. I can't say the issue went away because it wasn't
long enough to know, but before there was always this feeling like it
could go at any minute if I pushed it. And that feeling was really gone.

Until I stopped swimming. Now it's out again after a couple months of no
pool and I'm laid up in bed with a pulled muscle in my back. Connection?
I think yes.

Obviously I need to just get serious about taking care of my body again.
And obviously swimming does my back wonders, but I want to do more
than just that to develop a strong core and hopefully retrain whatever
muscles in my back are not doing their job.

I truly believe that I can eradicate the problem if I focus my attention in
the right areas.

Here are some things I'm considering:

Yoga
Pilates
The Alexander Technique (when I have the money for real training)
Kettlebells (once I've strengthened my core)

I realize you guys aren't doctors and can't give medical advice but any
input is appreciated....

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #2

Swimming and taking walks everyday is what really helped me with my back problems. Plus, my chiropractor helped me out a lot also. I go in for an adjustment twice per week. I'm sure you've seeked medical attention?

Post: #3

I have been to a chiropracter but it has been a long time. I'm planning to start going in regularly again for adjustments - it's kind of a part of my life I've sort of just adapted to but I realize now I need to start being far more proactive about it.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #4

Yoga!

Boat pose & Superman pose. Simple for starters.. Not heavy on the back (take some guidance) and strengthen your core & back like crazy.

The above you could try on your own.. and then take up a yoga class. PS: As with any workout.. start slow.

Post: #5

(12-10-2011 02:25 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I have been to a chiropracter but it has been a long time. I'm planning to start going in regularly again for adjustments - it's kind of a part of my life I've sort of just adapted to but I realize now I need to start being far more proactive about it.

I kept telling myself the pain would go away. I am very proactive and i finally decided it was time to go see my chiropractor. He took my x-rays and we found out I actually misaligned my back. Probly while snowboarding. I spent about $900 for a 6 month program with him where I see used to see him 3 x a week and now i'm seeing him 2 x per week. The money has been put to good use! I am finally back at the gym lifting hard at least 3 x per week. Plus, I've been running full court basketball again and my back doesn't get soar anymore. Feels great!
I hope you find the solution to your back. I know what a pain the ass it can be. I would feel so down on myself after going to the gym and having to leave early due to back pain. I really think you should see a chiropractor. Or maybe a Physical therapist?
One lesson i've learned is the pain won't go away on its own. i tried Yoga for a month, stretching everyday. pain never went away :/

Post: #6

I had back problems, too. It was work related (too much sitting in front of the computer) and affected the muscles in my upper body, shoulders and neck. I tried Yoga back then, and Pilates. Pilates was actually better. Also hot showers and sauna helped wonders. Now I work out 3 - 4 times a week and if I don't I do at least some light stretching in the mornings. No problems since.

This may be unrelated to what you have. So I recommend you go to a doctor first to make sure there's no serious condition.

Post: #7

Try trigger point self-massage:

http://www.triggerpointbook.com/examples.htm

Basic idea is that alot of chronic "back" pain is actually referred pain from knots in your glutes.

I absolutely screwed my back deadlifting and thought it was a disc or spine issue. Turns out it was tears in both my glutes that I've somewhat healed by rolling my ass on a hard lacrosse ball. It doesnt completely go, and comes back somewhat after walking or intense leg/back stuff in the gym, but is 60-90% better depending on how much activity I'm doing. And a trigger point session will instantly reduce it.

It's amazing how much join pain is due to trigger points in muscles. I woke up one day with chest pains that felt like a heart attack, tracked it down to a point in my serratus anterior (under armpit), massaged it and boom pain absolutely gone.

The book is what you need to find the specific trigger points:
http://www.amazon.com/Trigger-Point-Ther...341&sr=8-1

Post: #8

I have also had some chronic back problems. Over the years, I have had several acute episodes, and seen a variety of medical specialists, as well as the faith healers (chiropractors and the like - there is virtually no legitimate research or double blind controlled studies to support any of the claims they make for the efficacy of their treatments).
Here is what I have learned:
1. A lumbar MRI is the best way to see what is going on with discs and soft tissues.
2. Chiropractors can severely injure you, and are not recommended.
3. Surgery should be a last resort, as the current available technqiues have a modest rate of success. Also, get evaluated by someone who does not work with the surgeon who would be operating on you!!! A close friend of my family is a retired surgeon, and he told me to do this to avoid being used to pad the doctors profits, as they will do unnecessary operations to make money.
4. Make lifestyle changes, swimming is great, pay attention to your posture, always use proper body mechanics when lifting anything, avoid running on pavement as much as possible, be very careful with any sort of weightlifting routine.

Post: #9

Thanks for all the input guys! Great to hear from some of you who have actually been able to work through it.

How about "The Alexander Technique?" Does anyone know about it or has anyone tried it out? I remember when I talked with a chiropractor in the past and he basically said there was a muscle in one side of my back that I'd never learned to use correctly and so it was somehow underdeveloped. And so every once in a while I do something and that muscle doesn't do it's job so "bam" something just slips and I feel a stretching sensation and I'm done for 3 days to a week.

One time this happened just when I reached out to pick up a toothbrush!

Anyways, based on my experiences with my own back, what the chiropractor said rang true, and I think the Alexander Technique is supposed to be all about retraining your body posture. It's a philosophy and science based on the belief that almost everyone holds their body wrong after a lifetime of bad habits, and that this causes a lot of our issues with our health - it was originally designed as a way to cure singers who kept losing their voices but they later realized it solved a mess of other problems and has a long history of healing chronic back issues. (my knowledge is limited on the subject so excuse me if I'm a little off on some of this)

The training involves sessions with a certified practitioner though, and I've heard it takes about 40 to really "fix" your posture.

Just curious if anyone knows more. It's popped up a few times in my reading of PUA and human potential material, and a friend of mine read some books on the subject and was really intrigued.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #10

I can't say I could diagnose it in any case, let alone from what you have described. But your body works all its muscles like a pulley system.

I used to have frequent lower back pain. I tend to sleep on my stomach and get a lock of compression pains there.

I used to focus more on the back thinking it would fix the problem.

I found out it wasn't the back that needed work.

Firstly, through tension, your lower back is linked to your gluts and hamstrings. My body has a natural tendency for tighter than normal hamstrings. It has meant I can kick a ball a mile, but even when in shape I find it hard to touch my toes for example. I did yoga focusing on stretching my hamstrings and it reduced a lot of my pain.

Secondly, your core is involved in virtually everything. In another thread, an opinion was given in response to doing 1,000 ab crunches that he would never do ab work until the fat disappeared. I can't say I would view that as sound advice. Core conditioning is important, and your back muscles are small, weak and not that efficient. You core should be supported by your abs first and foremost. Muscles strain in your lower back can occur when they are having to support too much.

To summarise, sounds advice made me work on my hamstrings and abs to solve my lower back pain.

Post: #11

I used to deal with lower back pain fairly frequently.

Yoga was huge for me. Swimming for a half hour every night was even better, but wasn't feasible after I moved out of my condo with a pool in the basement.

A few guys have mentioned it already, but it's true that back pain is usually linked to muscular imbalances and poor flexibility in glutes, hamstrings, hips, even calves. You won't be able to fix your back just by fixing your back. Rather, you need to bring your entire body into a healthy alignment, not to go all Yoda on you.

A few other things to consider:

- Do you work at at a desk? Try to minimize your time spent sitting down. Standing workstation if possible.
- Flexibility. I mentioned yoga, but I've found this to be the unchallenged king of stretches:

http://www.google.co.th/search?q=couch+s...=firefox-a

If you spent your days in a desk, a few minutes of this each night is essential

- Foam rolling. You should roll out your back, but more importantly your calves, hams, quads and IT band.

- Vibram shoes. Regular sneakers throw your gait off, create muscular imbalances and can eventually cause back pain. if you're a runner, vibrams will give you a softer gait which which take stress off your spine and connective tissues, while naturally increasing your calf/hamstring flexibility.

Post: #12

Here is some hollistic advice for you...

Find a personal trainer who specializes in FMS training (Functional movement screening). FMS is a series of 7 tests.. (Deep squat, in line lunge, shoulder mobility, etc). The person administering the test will watch your form, and give you an "FMS score" (0-3) based on how well you perform each movement. A poor performance on a test can reveal many things that you need to work on. For example, if your deep squat form isn't good, it might indicate that your hamstrings or hip flexors are too tight (a flexibility issue). Corrective exercises can be used to correct certain deficiencies. Do some research on corrective exercises

Remember this when starting an exercise program: Mobility > Stability > performance (strength, speed, etc). For example, don't start doing fancy movements such as kettlebell swings, everything else isn't in place. It's like building a skyscraper on a foundation of sand, etc etc. If 1 link is weak in your kinetic chain, you will overcompensate with another and end up hurting yourself down the road.

Post: #13

squats, deadlifts and stretching have helped my back

Post: #14

I've had a longstanding back problem twice, first for several months and then for about five years. I got it playing football (soccer) and skiing. Very frustrating as I was unable to do the things I like without pain. Or rather, I felt like I was constantly straining my back and the sensation also transcended into the upper part of my leg.
I'm shorter at one of my legs so I always suspected that might have been one of the reasons. Or maybe a nerve was getting sqeezed. Whatever the reason, I have now zero problems with this, barring some rare occurences.

The thing that fixed it was starting to exercise the muscles around where my injury was and where I felt pain (in my case lower back and the very upper part of my leg). I hade been going to the gym for years but never really exercised these parts, which obviously needed to be strenghtened.

By the way, going to a chiropractor really helped me as it assured me my problem was manageable/curable and I received a very positive feedback from him. Initially I made the mistake of going to doctors which didn't help at all. The thing is most doctors don't have the knowledge or skills to fix most back problems.

I learned a lot from it. For example, that a good way to cure yourself is not necessarily just to rest, but to strenghten yourself in the injured/sick area.

Hopefully this can help someone.

Post: #15

You need no training or yoga.
Chiropractor training with the Alexander technique is expensive and yoga requires a great deal of passive stretching, which has been known to cause a great deal of injuries. There are no spiritual benefits to yoga that can't be found in any proper gym.

All you need to cure back problems is the humble full back bridge. Back pain is not voodoo. When the muscles in your back weaken from lack of conditioning (desk jobs, etc), the cartilage discs between the vertebra can easily rupture and shift. This causes nerve pain.

The full back bridge is superior to deadlifts and squats for (purely) strengthening the back because it teaches strength over a range of motion, so it conditions every spinal muscle, as opposed to deadlifts and squats, which give strength over no range of motion (ideally, the back remains static with deadlifts and squats). If you can successfully do a full back bridge (which can take a few months of conditioning), the deep muscles in your back will strengthen and your spine will properly realign itself as it's support structure develops. Your posture will improve dramatically. You might even gain an inch in height if you're prone to slouching.

Post: #16

You didn't mention this, but have you gotten overweight?

I had very significant back pain until I lost a lot of weight and started getting in shape. Some of the problems were caused from 10+ years of playing football and those won't ever go away. I did notice as I got in better shape AND was following a workout program that the frequency, duration, and severity of the pain all went way down.

I hadn't even thought about it until today when I read your post, but I haven't had any back pain since I went on a hiking trip a month ago. I used to have it multiple hours everyday.

I've also heard that standing work stations are good for people whose jobs normally require them to stay seated for long periods of time, though I have no personal experience.

Post: #17

i read about some guy who had a ton of back problems including surgery and he'd go for long walks every day, including up hills and he said it helped a lot.

Post: #18

Lots of good suggestions here.
1. Walking, swimming, and jogging are all essential if you have an office job and sit on your ass 8 hours a day.
2. Buy a good mattress. If your bed is over three years throw it out, bed quality has gone down drastically in this country. No Sleep Number either.
3. See a chiropractor. If you're still having pain it could be degenerative disc disease. Most cases adjustments, cryotherapy, electrostim will help that. Injections are hit or miss with pain. If all else fails you could be looking at a spinal fusion surgery.

Post: #19

Do you workout?

Do some spinal extension exercises. See pics below. That really gives the lower back the business. You'll be good to go.

Properly done squats and deadlifts gives your lower back mad strength.

Also, bust out a yoga stretching move.

That's my recipe. Been bulletproof for years.

Post: #20

EGOSCUE

Post: #21

I have had chronic back and neck pain for years now, and have tried chiropractors, massage, working out etc to little avail. I began lessons in the Alexander technique a couple of months ago, and I'll say it's been a game-changer. Basically, the method combines kinaesthetic education through soft touch and positioning, with learning a process of interrupting postural habits. By building awareness of a neutral state they call Primary Control, Alexander teachers show you how to stop yourself when you habitually start crunching down. The Primary Control is the relation between the head, neck, and back. When it is properly activated, the neck floats forward and up without muscles being strained in an attempt to "pull it up".

If you think about it, straining to achieve proper posture is a contradiction, since muscle strain signifies contraction rather than expansion. Yet learning how to allow muscles to extend is a more esoteric process than flexing, since postural sets are felt to be "natural" regardless of imbalances. That is, there's no map inside your brain of what a biomechanically optimal human posture is, just a series of habitual positions that feel comfortable. Alexander Technique helps you replace this ad hoc body map with one informed by science. Best of all, once you learn it you don't have to keep going back for lessons really. I mean, you can go back to focus on some set of movements, like I'm planning to have a few lessons focusing on posture at the computer and piano, but once you have a good handle on how to trigger the primary control when you know you're about to do something that causes pain, you can be your own Alexander teacher. So good shit for back pain, yea

Oh, and it's been really useful for the body language side of game as well... And they know it, apparently my teacher taught Neil Strauss lol

Post: #22

(12-10-2011 02:15 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  I've had issues over the last decade with my back and it now pretty
much goes out a few times every year. It's gotten worse and worse,
especially since I've gotten really sedentary over the last few years as I focused on working online.

So you are either fat or you're skinny fat.

Thus, you know what you need to do.

You need to start eating right. Start with 3 servings of vegetables each day. Work your way up to 9-10 servings of fruits and vegetables.

Most chronic back problems are caused by poor nutrition.

Also, buy a foam roller.

Post: #23

Google egoscue and incorporate some of the moves into your routine.

Post: #24

Work on diet first before exercise.

PUFA fats (polyunsaturated fatty acids) are known to be pro-inflammatory. Cut them out entirely -- this means no soybean oil, corn oil, canola oil or any of that crap. Ghee, butter (grass fed is best) or coconut oil when you cook at home, and ask restaurants to cook in butter when possible.

Be aware of things your specific body considers toxic: wheat (/gluten), beans (lectins) and other things that can cause autoimmune disorders and inflammatory responses to them.

Get tested for allergies and remove those allergens from your house.

In my experience, I've helped more than a few people reduce back problems with diet.

The second biggest cause for back problems, again in my anecdotal experience, is stress. High cortisol levels can create sciatica-like pains. Are you sleeping a full 8-9 hours a night? If not, do so.

Low stress, low-inflammatory/toxic diet, you should be good as new.