Post: #26

Call me crazy, but I'd go straight to Buenos Aires, and fall off the radar in a city with 13 million people, a government that does not get along with Uncle Sam and a rich history of taking in people needing a new life. Juan Peron welcomed that Nazi's and Jews - as long as you had the gold or Swiss francs, you were in. In fact, Adolf Eichmann's son was dating the daughter of a Jewish holocast refugee when he was caught by the Mossad in BA. The place has always been a largely cash economy and hiding money under the bed is a sort of national obsession. If Western Union is too risky, the Jewish money changers in the "Once" barrio will move your cash from/to Argentina with no questions asked.

Post: #27

I know a guy that was living in the DR for the last 3 years. He just got a job in Santiago with a telemarketing company. He had to get a criminal check and the DNCD (police) came to his office and arrested him. He was sent back to the US, a few days later. His wife went back last year and they arrested her when she got off the plane. She ended up spending 9 months in jail. He was wanted with fraud for something like $100k with his mother in law.

Post: #28

Escape has a lot of different connotations.

Running from the law? What's the offense? If it's not big time, they'll put your name in Interpol database, and you'll only get caught if you're trying to clear a border or otherwise get arrested.

If it's a serious crime, you'll get caught. It's only a matter of time.

Running from student loans? A lot of guys have $200,000+ in student loans. It'd make a lot of sense for them to escape.

Escaping debt is an interesting discussion.

Post: #29

French Foreign Legion comes to mind if you want a whole new identity and to eventually gain French citizenship, of course that could involve combat in some pretty shitty places. Also, I think that they're tightened the rules in recent years, not too sure they'd let in murderers or other serious criminals.

Laying low can be done in your own country of course, Boston gangster Whitey Bulger eluded the USA authorities for many years until he was recently caught last year in California, I'm pretty sure he was in the states the whole time, with a fat bankroll to sustain himself.

I know that in Canada, its not too hard to disappear (big country). A favorite destination is the province of Quebec, where the local French speaking authorities aren't always too keen to help out their Anglo counter parts in investigations, a buddy of mine laid low there for a few years in Montreal.

Post: #30

I hardly think it's worth dissapearing just for the sake of creditors. If you really can't pay declaring bankrupcy has to be better than living underground for the rest of your life.

For creditor related stuff, I'd just stay in my home country, and find ways to hide assets and cash. If you have multiple passports all the better since you have choice as to which is becomes your home. How is a lawyer going to know that the cash that has "disapeared" has been converted into precious metals rather than, say, been blown on gambling, hookers or whatever if that's what you tell them. Good lawyers may be smart, but they aren't omnipotent.

Post: #31

(03-07-2012 11:01 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  I hardly think it's worth dissapearing just for the sake of creditors. If you really can't pay declaring bankrupcy has to be better than living underground for the rest of your life.

student loans cannot be discharged under the law. they stay with you forever and ever and ever and ever. no doubt about it.

Post: #32

(03-07-2012 02:59 PM)reaper23 Wrote:  

(03-07-2012 11:01 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  I hardly think it's worth dissapearing just for the sake of creditors. If you really can't pay declaring bankrupcy has to be better than living underground for the rest of your life.

student loans cannot be discharged under the law. they stay with you forever and ever and ever and ever. no doubt about it.

Well that sucks. Still seems extreme to me that someone feels impelled to leave their own fucking country because of debt taken out when they were very young. Can't this practice be challenged constitutionally? Non-dischargeable debt is essentially debt peonage, which I'm guessing would violate all sorts of laws. You know, with the end of slavery and all.

Post: #33

Personally, I work very hard to stay on the right side of the law. I think though, the chances are high uncle sam will pull your passport if you do something major. Your only option after that is heading down to good ole Mexico.

You could marry a local girl, and put a small biz in her name, to keep food on the table.

Post: #34

(03-08-2012 05:45 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  Personally, I work very hard to stay on the right side of the law. I think though, the chances are high uncle sam will pull your passport if you do something major. Your only option after that is heading down to good ole Mexico.

I'd echo this, but if you're productive, chances are you could get shafted by the law even if you were a saint. As times get tougher, look towards higher taxes; got an offshore bank account? Someone might get upset.

Get a wife or kids? Don't have anything you could afford to lose.

Or tie it up cleverly.

Quote:You could marry a local girl, and put a small biz in her name, to keep food on the table.

What?

A loan shark is a better idea than that. Jesus.

Post: #35

(03-06-2012 07:11 PM)scotian Wrote:  French Foreign Legion comes to mind if you want a whole new identity and to eventually gain French citizenship, of course that could involve combat in some pretty shitty places. Also, I think that they're tightened the rules in recent years, not too sure they'd let in murderers or other serious criminals.

I've always heard this is the best way to vanish off the face of the earth, but only in the case of escaping something like the Russian mob trying to kill you or something. Apparently if you survive for a certain period of time, you become a French citizen with a new name and French equivalent of a Social Security number, all completely backed and verified by their government, and if you retire after a certain number of years, there's supposed to be some sort of awesome chateau in France you can live at with a full pension for the rest of your life. But you will see a LOT of heavy combat in a lot of very shitty places, I've heard a few stories of SEAL's letting their contracts run out and joining the FFL just so they could get an Ops tempo that's up to their level of training. So it's pretty much a very-last case scenario thing.

Post: #36

Costa Rica used to be popular destination for guys to lay low. Not sure if it's still that way.

Post: #37

(03-08-2012 05:45 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  Personally, I work very hard to stay on the right side of the law. I think though, the chances are high uncle sam will pull your passport if you do something major. Your only option after that is heading down to good ole Mexico.

You could marry a local girl, and put a small biz in her name, to keep food on the table.

I almost did that. Not so bad. My Mexican girlfriends have been top notch.
Just open a scooter rental place and have her run it. Change a couple tires in the morning then go drinking.

Post: #38

I give you the celebrated case of John Darwin our very own 'Canoe Man'.

This fool had it all sussed out:

Fake your own death in a canoe accident: check.
Hide in a secret room in your home for a year until the coast is clear: check.
Get your million dollar life insurance pay out: check
Apply for a new passport in the name of a dead child: check.
Use the passport and money to set up a new life in Panama: check
Allow the Panamanian estate agent you bought an apartment off of to take a photo with you and use it on their English web site despite you trying to lie low: CHECK
Being arrested for fraud and given a 6 and a half year sentence: CHECK

Muppet.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ayout.html

Post: #39

(03-06-2012 02:36 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  I got that e-mail the other day. He conveniently failed to mention extradition law with the US in pretty much all of those countries.

Check out this map.

I could remain incognito in a lot of places but if the law was coming after me real hard and I wanted to avoid extradition, the question becomes, where could you go?

From the looks of that map, doesn't seem like there's many good choices out there.

Waw... Americans really have no decent options. My country only has extradition with Brazil and Ecuador in South America.

Turkey and Tunisia would probably be good destinations for us too.

Post: #40

I heard Brazil is the place to be. I've never been there, but Brazil's economy just overtook the UK for #5 in the world, and their economy is growing faster than anyone out there except china. And when it comes to the women, i've heard from many guys it's the place to be

Post: #41

(03-08-2012 05:02 AM)Bad Hussar Wrote:  Well that sucks. Still seems extreme to me that someone feels impelled to leave their own fucking country because of debt taken out when they were very young. Can't this practice be challenged constitutionally? Non-dischargeable debt is essentially debt peonage, which I'm guessing would violate all sorts of laws. You know, with the end of slavery and all.

It's a monumental unfairness. The law has been challenged in court. The challengers have lost and will continue to lose. There's no sign the law is going to change.

If I were 22 and in the situation a lot of these kids are in, I'd leave the country. Start over elsewhere.

Post: #42

(03-08-2012 06:54 AM)Kafka Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 07:11 PM)scotian Wrote:  French Foreign Legion comes to mind if you want a whole new identity and to eventually gain French citizenship, of course that could involve combat in some pretty shitty places. Also, I think that they're tightened the rules in recent years, not too sure they'd let in murderers or other serious criminals.

I've always heard this is the best way to vanish off the face of the earth, but only in the case of escaping something like the Russian mob trying to kill you or something. Apparently if you survive for a certain period of time, you become a French citizen with a new name and French equivalent of a Social Security number, all completely backed and verified by their government, and if you retire after a certain number of years, there's supposed to be some sort of awesome chateau in France you can live at with a full pension for the rest of your life. But you will see a LOT of heavy combat in a lot of very shitty places, I've heard a few stories of SEAL's letting their contracts run out and joining the FFL just so they could get an Ops tempo that's up to their level of training. So it's pretty much a very-last case scenario thing.

They've changed the rules somewhat because they wanted to get rid of the reputation of being a haven for scumbags. Now, you still adopt a new name while you are serving in the FFL, but if you want to become a French citizen after you serve your 3 years you receive your citizenship under your original name.

It kind of kills the fantasy thinking about how difficult it really is to disappear completely.

The same avenues that have enabled international playboys like us to pursue our dreams have made it nearly impossible to vanish if a situation should arise. A blessing and a curse.

Post: #43

(03-08-2012 10:33 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-08-2012 05:45 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  Personally, I work very hard to stay on the right side of the law. I think though, the chances are high uncle sam will pull your passport if you do something major. Your only option after that is heading down to good ole Mexico.

You could marry a local girl, and put a small biz in her name, to keep food on the table.

I almost did that. Not so bad. My Mexican girlfriends have been top notch.
Just open a scooter rental place and have her run it. Change a couple tires in the morning then go drinking.

Which actually sounds much more appealing than how 99% of the US population lives their lives to me. Be up to my eyes in debt, be married to a condescending wife who doesn't take care of herself, work 40-70 hours per week in a job you absolutely hate, and you only look forward to your two week vacation with your fat wife and snot nosed kids in Hawaii that you had to scrimp and save for. Only to return home and do it all over again for 52 MORE WEEKS!

Much rather marry a hot Mexican girl, live in her small beach town close to her family and live debt free with a small business to get food and beer. No need for BMW's, three story homes, cul-de-sacs or 62" Sony televisions here.

Post: #44

(03-09-2012 03:19 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(03-08-2012 10:33 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-08-2012 05:45 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  Personally, I work very hard to stay on the right side of the law. I think though, the chances are high uncle sam will pull your passport if you do something major. Your only option after that is heading down to good ole Mexico.

You could marry a local girl, and put a small biz in her name, to keep food on the table.

I almost did that. Not so bad. My Mexican girlfriends have been top notch.
Just open a scooter rental place and have her run it. Change a couple tires in the morning then go drinking.

Which actually sounds much more appealing than how 99% of the US population lives their lives to me. Be up to my eyes in debt, be married to a condescending wife who doesn't take care of herself, work 40-70 hours per week in a job you absolutely hate, and you only look forward to your two week vacation with your fat wife and snot nosed kids in Hawaii that you had to scrimp and save for. Only to return home and do it all over again for 52 MORE WEEKS!

Much rather marry a hot Mexican girl, live in her small beach town close to her family and live debt free with a small business to get food and beer. No need for BMW's, three story homes, cul-de-sacs or 62" Sony televisions here.

Not to mention the Mexican girl actually knows how to cook.

Post: #45

(03-09-2012 03:22 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(03-09-2012 03:19 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(03-08-2012 10:33 AM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(03-08-2012 05:45 AM)Aliblahba Wrote:  Personally, I work very hard to stay on the right side of the law. I think though, the chances are high uncle sam will pull your passport if you do something major. Your only option after that is heading down to good ole Mexico.

You could marry a local girl, and put a small biz in her name, to keep food on the table.

I almost did that. Not so bad. My Mexican girlfriends have been top notch.
Just open a scooter rental place and have her run it. Change a couple tires in the morning then go drinking.

Which actually sounds much more appealing than how 99% of the US population lives their lives to me. Be up to my eyes in debt, be married to a condescending wife who doesn't take care of herself, work 40-70 hours per week in a job you absolutely hate, and you only look forward to your two week vacation with your fat wife and snot nosed kids in Hawaii that you had to scrimp and save for. Only to return home and do it all over again for 52 MORE WEEKS!

Much rather marry a hot Mexican girl, live in her small beach town close to her family and live debt free with a small business to get food and beer. No need for BMW's, three story homes, cul-de-sacs or 62" Sony televisions here.

Not to mention the Mexican girl actually knows how to cook.

Hells yes they can cook! You wan some chicken baby? I'll go outside an grab one.. have a seat.

Post: #46

Sometimes I catch myself looking into google maps for completely isolated places that no one ever goes to, and I actually keep thinking that one day I'd definitely like to hit a random middle-of-nowhere place just to see what if feels like, how life is off the chart, or closer to that.

A few examples-

Adak, Alaska

Andaman and Nicobar

Palau

... talk about disappearing...

Post: #47

(03-06-2012 04:08 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(03-06-2012 03:08 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  True story. This guy that used to work for me got caught with underage porn on his computer a year and a half ago by the Feds. They took his passport and computers.

I told him to get the fuck out of here and he thought about it and hired a lawyer. Not a word for one year and then they came down on his house like the swat team and arrested him. He spent 70k on legal and got 12 years in Federal prison. He's gone as of last month.

I told him just to have someone sail him to Cuba and lay low. Taiwan also doesn't really have strong extradition laws and he used to live there and loved it. Stupid!

Moral here. Get that second passport while you can. I'm just fine living on a sailboat off the Cuban coast or on a Greek island.

I can go into way more detail about this but don't want to post due to legal reasons

I have always thought if I had to do more than a few years in the pen I would just cut out. I have two family members doing life on three strikes, and a lot of my family has been to prison (not just jail), and I would just say fuck that. I would rather bounce out and live my life somewhere else. My family and friends would come to visit me occasionally anyways.

I think you would have to find somewhere that you could get some very legit looking paperwork and fly under the radar. So many countries have extradition treaties with the US, and I would assume in the next 20-30 years whichever country you picked to live in may very well have one as well. I would try to get some fake paperwork, or real paperwork from a dead guy or somethin, and pick a place somewhere in Central/South America or the Caribbean.

I'm with Rio and El Mech on this one. The last thing I would do is spend years in a prison living like a slave.

If I were falsely accused of a serious crime (like rape) and my lawyer told me to pack my bags and get ready for a long trip in the federal pen, then I'd be gone in the hour. In the end, why live in prison for 12 years? I'd rather kill myself, or go out in a blaze of glory. Ever work a job that you absolutely hated or lived in some shitty situation in which every month feels like a year. Prison is a million times worse because you're no longer free. You no longer have the option to walk away. Why put yourself through that? You only have one life, better to live it on the run where you have a chance than to succumb and be locked up.

But there's a larger lesson here. You always have to be ready for something like this. If you're a player and fucking women, you have to be ready for the rogue bitch who will falsely accuse you of rape.

I've given a lot of thought to this in the past, and always have a plan, but I'm with El Mech about not discussing in an open forum.

Post: #48

Cambodia.

There's really no law there. If you have some money you can do whatever you want and it's dirt cheap. It's also amazing beautiful. At the border you can get a 12 month "business visa" for $60. All they do is take your money and paperwork and stick the visa sticker in your passport. I doubt they forward any of that stuff to relevant agencies. After the year, I'd just cross into southern Laos and repeat the process.

Post: #49

Cash option:

1) Get some high-end theatre makeup, a baldcap, fake mustache, and whatever else you can use to instantly alter your appearance

2) Get a new set of quality fake IDs, including passport, with your altered appearance

3) Stash a chunk of your savings in offshore accounts under your new identity

4) Stash a bag with IDs, cash, makeup, and a suit at a safehouse near your airport

If the noose tightens, you get to your safehouse and you're home free.

I got into a sticky situation in my freshman year and sketched out a plan.

Neil Strauss has a cool book on the measures the rich and well-connected are taking to prep for that kind of thing - Emergency.


Broke option:

I got in a potentially sticky situation in my freshman year and sketched out a plan. Dropping off the radar is harder when you're broke, but also easier in a way since you don't have assets to protect.

1) Throw some essentials in a backpack. Stay light, mobile. Get as much cash as you can from friends, family, work.

2) Get a generic vehicle by any means necessary. Preferably a buddy with insurance, so he can give you a headstart before you hit the road. Switch the plates with someone else's ride, same make and colour.

3) Hit up rural fast food restaurants and convenience stores whenever you need cash.

4) Find under the table work in the pacific northwest, canadian oil sands, or similar. Pick up a fake set of ID asap.