Post: #1

This is something I've been pondering lately.

I was pretty sexually active in college, with a lay count of 32 over four years. I'm out of the dating game now as I am in an LTR, working a 9-5, living in a suburb and generally trying to get my life in order.

One weird thing that I have been noticing is that the vast majority of guys I know are either completely single/forever alone experiencing minimal sexual success, or are in committed relationships like me. I genuinely don't know anyone who is pursuing a player lifestyle. This includes good looking, athletic, fratty dudes -- almost all of them are in committed relationships. On my team at work literally everyone is in a serious relationship. We're not particularly old (mid twenties in general), nor are we living in a conservative place by any means.

It's interesting because we live in the era of Tinder and unprecedented sexual freedom, but in my daily life at least, I see very little of this expressed. Even in college I barely met people who were genuine players or even trying to bang tons of girls. I had the highest notch count of anyone I knew (not to brag, I honestly wish I spent the time doing other things).

Has anyone else noticed this, or does anyone see genuine male promiscuity on a regular basis? I really feel that even for high-SMV men, the default is to be in a relationship with a hot girl.

Post: #2

(08-02-2018 06:38 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  I'm out of the dating game now as I am in an LTR...

That's called having a girlfriend, not an LTR.

Post: #3

(08-02-2018 06:38 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  It's interesting because we live in the era of Tinder and unprecedented sexual freedom, but in my daily life at least, I see very little of this expressed. Even in college I barely met people who were genuine players or even trying to bang tons of girls. I had the highest notch count of anyone I knew (not to brag, I honestly wish I spent the time doing other things).

That's because a player lifestyle isn't for every man. It can be tough having different girls pass in and out of your life, sometimes (well, most of the time) adding unnecessary tension, stress or drama into your life. Often times I wonder if it would just be easier to find one girl and not have to deal with anymore bullshit (wishful thinking but still).

I think a lot of young guys fantasize about being a player and juggling multiple women, but only imagine the potential fun of fucking them. They never consider the reality of dealing with these women pre and post bang. Personally, sometimes I feel worn out dealing with the entitled attitudes, the bitchiness, the flakiness, the passive aggressiveness, the pettiness and the jealousy. And this is what men with higher SMV than me must deal with too.

And It can be a grind going out on dates that go nowhere, or dealing with stupid drunk girls, or dealing with girls who ghost. Of course this doesn't happen to DiCaprio, but the remaining 99.9% of us have to deal with this bullshit, no matter the level of SMV.

So it doesn't surprise me that many guys would rather stick with one girl despite having the ability to fuck more than one.

Post: #4

(08-02-2018 06:38 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  This is something I've been pondering lately.

I was pretty sexually active in college, with a lay count of 32 over four years. I'm out of the dating game now as I am in an LTR, working a 9-5, living in a suburb and generally trying to get my life in order.

...

In a suburb, there just isn't the volume to be a player. If your coworkers also live in the suburbs, that would explain things. And where do you work that all your coworkers are "high-SMV" men? I'd assume most of them are average guys.

One surprising thing I've noticed is that PUA / "red pill" knowledge + terminology seems to be rapidly spreading across male society thanks to the internet. It seems like I've overheard a bunch of conversations in the last few months where men are (often speaking to a woman) dropping red pill concepts (but in less explicit terms). Things like "younger women like older men, but not vice versa" --- or the classic "80% of women sleep with 20% of guys", etc.

Of course, just like in business (e.g. entrepreneurship knowledge) tons of people know what to do ... They just don't do the hard work. Guys learn that they should cold-approach, but never can persist through the pain & rejection until they actually get the positive reinforcement of success from doing so.

Post: #5

Seconded Dodgy

And I will add . Every one wants to be in a good shape but no one wants to go to the gym .
You can apply the same concept in all aspects of life

Post: #6

It really depends on what you define as "high SMV" and the kinds of crowds you run in.

I find that for most guys, there is a strong moral obligation to not be a player. Even on this very forum, the player lifestyle is dissed in a passive-aggressive way (eg: "more to life than pussy" or "life is more fulfilling outside of getting hot girls). Sleeping around and being a player is not accepted and even in this day and age, it is aggressive bashed. The left wing bashes it with feminists calling these men evil and the right wing attacks it by playing the goody-two-shoe religious card.

High SMV in my eyes is a sexual market value that results in lots of women wanting to sleep with you. A bald bartender at a nightclub has a higher SMV than a handsome doctor who is tall dark and handsome because women actually want to fuck him for the night. On the same token an average looking guy who photographs models for a living has a high SMV because of the opportunities he has with hot women compared to a handsome engineer who comes off as "boring" because of his lifestyle.

So if you run in crowds where hedonism is encouraged (nightlife for example), I think players are not that out of the norm because the judgment against it is not that high. When I was in NYC, I knew bartenders who were getting laid on the regular and had some wild Snapchats......

Problem is that most crowds are not like this or that accepting of that sort of a life.

Post: #7

(08-02-2018 09:12 PM)Dodgy Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:38 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  It's interesting because we live in the era of Tinder and unprecedented sexual freedom, but in my daily life at least, I see very little of this expressed. Even in college I barely met people who were genuine players or even trying to bang tons of girls. I had the highest notch count of anyone I knew (not to brag, I honestly wish I spent the time doing other things).

That's because a player lifestyle isn't for every man. It can be tough having different girls pass in and out of your life, sometimes (well, most of the time) adding unnecessary tension, stress or drama into your life. Often times I wonder if it would just be easier to find one girl and not have to deal with anymore bullshit (wishful thinking but still).

I think a lot of young guys fantasize about being a player and juggling multiple women, but only imagine the potential fun of fucking them. They never consider the reality of dealing with these women pre and post bang. Personally, sometimes I feel worn out dealing with the entitled attitudes, the bitchiness, the flakiness, the passive aggressiveness, the pettiness and the jealousy. And this is what men with higher SMV than me must deal with too.

And It can be a grind going out on dates that go nowhere, or dealing with stupid drunk girls, or dealing with girls who ghost. Of course this doesn't happen to DiCaprio, but the remaining 99.9% of us have to deal with this bullshit, no matter the level of SMV.

So it doesn't surprise me that many guys would rather stick with one girl despite having the ability to fuck more than one.

This can be true. The problem is, even if you have a girlfriend or LTR type of situation, the second that things get dicey you often have to deal with the same issues with said chick. Sometimes there's no dodging the drama whether you are living the player lifestyle floating from fling to fling or primarily dealing with one woman for a prolonged period of time. It is what it is. It's the price that we as men have to pay for playing the game whether on a short-term or long-term basis.

Post: #8

From my experience it seems many guys aren’t actually good with women. From reading forums, blogs, comments on YouTube/meme pages, it seems many guys around your age are simply weak adult boys and the girls are narcissistic attention demanding (not seeking) sluts. Many guys including myself WANT to improve, want to be the charismatic cold approaching player but many simply can’t hold on.

There are countless PUA style blogs, self improvement YouTube channels, books, etc that get thousands of not millions of views a day from men who WANT to be players, who work their ass off to do so then settle for whoever gives them attention

That’s what I see atleast, a lot of guys settling because they fear being alone. Tinder has become a dating site for the 80% and a hook up site for the 20%

Also what do u expect? The media pushes women to be promiscuous all while shaming men for treating women as such. So to millennial men the concept of being a player is vulgar and uninteresting.......up untill the inevitable heartbreak in which the media tells men “not all women are like that”

Oh and having a GF or a LTR isn’t as glamorous. You have to deal with all the same problems as having a harem but with the added stress of trusting her and other minor things such as nagging and such. If one of the girls in your harem falls flat then u have 3-however many back ups ready to take her place. Most guys who have a Gf or LTR put it all on the line.

Post: #9

Going back to the OP's feast or famine comment, I recall an anecdotal from another, unrelated, site. The poster was a Brit, in his 40's, who had studied a STEM (male dominated) subject at university. He stated that, of those in his class, himself and one other guy did well with the opposite sex during their time there, and a handful had long term girlfriends, but the rest were completely alone for the duration of the course.

Post: #10

High SMV men are typically consumed by work.

One of the biggest factors in game is time. You can have the best game, but if you do not have the time to work multiple girls, you will get substandard results.

It also takes a certain personality to pursue the player life.

Also, a player life is only really suitable in major cities.

You need all that combined to produce a high SMV player.

In other words, even amongst high SMV men the competition is not maxed out.

Game is getting harder, but at the same time not every high SMV guy is going to be a player.

Even among players, there are those who only do DG and dislike NG. So while competition for girls is high, competition that has solid game + all the other factors is still not that many in #'s. This is why girls congregate towards the top 10-20% of men. They'd rather be on the waiting list than get banged by the other %.

Post: #11

Most men are easily swayed into relationships. Almost all of my high SMV friends are ALWAYS in relationships. However, they do complain about a type of cognitive dissonance. They find it difficult being loyal and really want other girls, but they're too afraid of the single lifestyle.

They generally still have confidence issues. I know a fellow, who couldnt be bothered with relationships until he was 24, now he says he and his life would be meaningless without his current girlfriend. Lol.

Post: #12

double post by mistake

Post: #13

(08-02-2018 09:12 PM)Dodgy Wrote:  

(08-02-2018 06:38 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  

I think a lot of young guys fantasize about being a player and juggling multiple women, but only imagine the potential fun of fucking them. They never consider the reality of dealing with these women pre and post bang. Personally, sometimes I feel worn out dealing with the entitled attitudes, the bitchiness, the flakiness, the passive aggressiveness, the pettiness and the jealousy. And this is what men with higher SMV than me must deal with too.

And It can be a grind going out on dates that go nowhere, or dealing with stupid drunk girls, or dealing with girls who ghost. Of course this doesn't happen to DiCaprio, but the remaining 99.9% of us have to deal with this bullshit, no matter the level of SMV.

So it doesn't surprise me that many guys would rather stick with one girl despite having the ability to fuck more than one.

Preach.
Most guys fantasize about being able to sleep with many women but soon find out just how much work it requires and just how much further they have to improve their skills.
I've lost count the amount of times I've came home early in the morning because the night before i went out and met a girl and went back to her place for sex. Stayed up all night fucking and got 3-4hrs of sleep AND then had to be productive the rest of the day. Missed meals and gym workouts. This kind of lifestyle is depleting in the long run and eventually runs your body and mind into the ground.

Plus there will be things that happen with girls that will be completely out of your control.

Post: #14

All the acronyms in this thread giving me a headache.

Post: #15

I'm gonna echo dknight here and say that it all comes down to time and then energy. Few men have that much time and energy to constantly pursue women. And those that do are dealing with some pathological narcissism, insecurity, or sex addiction. Before you blast me what I'm talking about here is guys who constantly chase pussy for 10+ years. Not a guy in his 20s who experiences heightened desire to meet women.

Back in his NYC playboy days Paul Janka said that the reason why he was able to rack up such a high notch count wasn't because he had game, good looking, and generally attractive... plenty of dudes in a place like NYC who have that. No, the reason why he was so successful was because he didn't have a normal 9-5 lifestyle. He hated the grind of investmenet banking so quit that job and instead became a high level SAT tutor for rich parents in the upper east. That gave him a lot of time off and flexible schedule. So he kept trying over and over again (which takes a lot of time and energy) to optimize his system. He made himself flexible so he can fit into the busy schedules of NYC career women. He admits as much himself.

That kind of time and energy to constantly chase women might be sustainable for a few years but like I said unless you are pathologically obsessed with women you are not going to be able to sustain that into your 30s and so on.

Post: #16

High SMV men have women work around their schedule. They don't make time for those whores, they make time for him.

Living a true RP life isn't about how many sluts you bang. It's about living life for yourself and improving yourself every day to become a better man. The women are a by product of that. They want to be a part of your journey.

I don't go out with friends to pick up girls. I go out to have a good time and relax. Sure I'll game girls while I'm out, but it doesn't ruin my night if I get shot down 20 times. The point is I have fun doing it. No stress.

If you're in a relationship and you're happy, great. But if you're not happy and feel that you need more to grow as a man, then end the relationship.

Post: #17

(08-02-2018 10:42 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  It really depends on what you define as "high SMV" and the kinds of crowds you run in.

I find that for most guys, there is a strong moral obligation to not be a player. Even on this very forum, the player lifestyle is dissed in a passive-aggressive way (eg: "more to life than pussy" or "life is more fulfilling outside of getting hot girls). Sleeping around and being a player is not accepted and even in this day and age, it is aggressive bashed. The left wing bashes it with feminists calling these men evil and the right wing attacks it by playing the goody-two-shoe religious card.

High SMV in my eyes is a sexual market value that results in lots of women wanting to sleep with you. A bald bartender at a nightclub has a higher SMV than a handsome doctor who is tall dark and handsome because women actually want to fuck him for the night. On the same token an average looking guy who photographs models for a living has a high SMV because of the opportunities he has with hot women compared to a handsome engineer who comes off as "boring" because of his lifestyle.

So if you run in crowds where hedonism is encouraged (nightlife for example), I think players are not that out of the norm because the judgment against it is not that high. When I was in NYC, I knew bartenders who were getting laid on the regular and had some wild Snapchats......

Problem is that most crowds are not like this or that accepting of that sort of a life.

Damn dude..

If I have to hear one more time from a post of yours about how bartenders have high SMV, bartenders sleep with hot girls, bartenders have bigger cocks...

I think you need to figure out what works for you by trying different methods, not theorize all over the forum about how you have a hard on for bartenders.

My personal opinion, which I have given you already is that I wouldn't waste my time bartending, etc. just to get more pussy because the lack of additional value that it adds to you and the opportunity cost of shitting on your career are high. This compared to the additional pussy you THINK you will get and so NOT guaranteed. I'd say work on your inner game before taking huge leaps that affect your life.

Back to the topic of this thread, let's just say that my "SMV" is higher now at 40 than it was at 20 mostly due to my own perception and lifestyle. I don't miss what I supposedly lost in pussy while I was younger. I really don't.

Post: #18

(08-03-2018 08:50 AM)Cobra Wrote:  Damn dude..

If I have to hear one more time from a post of yours about how bartenders have high SMV, bartenders sleep with hot girls, bartenders have bigger cocks...

I think you need to figure out what works for you by trying different methods, not theorize all over the forum about how you have a hard on for bartenders.

My personal opinion, which I have given you already is that I wouldn't waste my time bartending, etc. just to get more pussy because the lack of additional value that it adds to you and the opportunity cost of shitting on your career are high. This compared to the additional pussy you THINK you will get and so NOT guaranteed. I'd say work on your inner game before taking huge leaps that affect your life.

Back to the topic of this thread, let's just say that my "SMV" is higher now at 40 than it was at 20 mostly due to my own perception and lifestyle. I don't miss what I supposedly lost in pussy while I was younger. I really don't.

I was thinking the same thing reading this, I know a few guys who have been successful with the bartender gig but many more who just go and serve drinks for 6 hours and can't get shit. If you're going to get a job to just pick up girls and you're a good fit for it, try bouncing. You talk to literally every girl that comes in the door and when you're off door duty you can walk around and do whatever instead of having to serve people drinks constantly - I still wouldn't do it for just that purpose though...

But I do not believe there are really that many high SMV males like you are saying. The guys you described (athletic fratty dudes?) just sound like you think high SMV means attractiveness.

High SMV will ALWAYS carry with it an abundance mindset, guys who have a high SMV and maintain it through constant growth and effort are not going to cave to their plates wanting relationships and end up stuck with a girlfriend. If in this day and age, you decide to wife up and stop pursuing women in your early 20's, you are not high SMV. You're just taking the path of least effort.

Post: #19

All this makes sende. For those questioning the SMV of my coworkers, most of these guys are good looking athletic dudes who were in top frats in college (I work in sales) — I would imagine guys like this have bo problem on Tinder. On top of that they’re very good at talking to the sorority girls at my work (and there are many) and get tons of IOIs from them. So I was a little cobfused when I saw how almost everyone in this demographic was paired up in LTRs.

At the same time though, this makes sense — as many people have answered and I know from personal experience, the player lifestyle is an absolute slog and can stop being fun very quickly. I remember wanting an LTR as little as a year or two into my journey. I guess it would be marginally easier for these guys but not significantly so.

Post: #20

I am a fan of anagrams:

Bastard Sword => Dads Worst Bar => Odd Bar Straws ... (runner up: Dad's Bra Worts)

You have two choices as I see it:

a) It's in the anagrams: quit life and go tend bar!!

b) Forget the bar, instead TAKE the bar exam, get a large dog, a tattoo of a beertap, and get on OKCupid and Tinder. Girls love large dogs, tattoos, and other accoutrements

Post: #21

Most men aren't cut out for the lifestyle. Plain and simple.

If you aren't on the level where you have an abundance mindset, where you understand that women are just looking for fun and experiences, you'll get chewed up and spit out. If you care too much, or place women on a pedestal, instead of treating them as a side dish to your life, you will have a rude awakening. Most guys will do anything for the almighty pussy, and men with "high SMV" are no exception.

And, speaking about playerdom, even "players" aren't in it for the long haul. Most can be in this game for a couple years, but the attrition rate in the player world is high. Navy SEAL drop out rates.

Most "players" begin to see friends and acquaintances getting married, having kids, etc. and start questioning what they are doing with their lives. You'll experience burnout due to all the shit that has already been mentioned in this thread, pettiness, dumb chicks, flakes, etc. and think that settling down is better. The relationship life looks pretty good, you only have to deal with her shit now, instead of 5 or 10 girls at a time, and you think she's pretty good. You weigh the pros and cons, the pros are more than the cons, and you leave the game for "greener pastures" as a spoken for man.

I see this lots, have experienced it myself, and realize that the game actually never ends, regardless of relationship status. High SMV men aren't immune to this, and frankly, most men that are exceptional in their respective fields are straight up betas when it comes to women.

I think every man that is a player had some sort of experience that made him that way. You either took the redpill early in life like I did (at age 15 due to dating a certified BPD chick), you had a lack of experience until later in life, and become a player to satisfy all your unsatisfied desires early on in life (many guys get into the lifestyle in their late 20's), or you have some other circumstance that made you that way. You have to actually want the lifestyle though. Even these circumstances won't keep you in the game long term.

The number of guys that are players in highschool and college is high. You play a sport or are in a band? Instant SMV, instant women. What you realize though, is that these guys are mostly betas that have women coming to them simply because their SMV is high due to athletics or interests. As soon as this SMV is gone, they end up shacking up shortly after they get out of school. I know dozens of these guys. They played baseball or hockey, and then once they don't go anywhere with it, they shack up with the hottest girl they can get, and start posting about how much they love her.

The number of guys that are players into their late 20's and early 30's is significantly lower. And, once you reach your mid 30's, you're talking like 1 in 500 that are actually good at it. The competition weeds itself out, because most people are going downhill instead of getting better as the years go on. By the time you're 40, you're going to be standing alone if you can keep yourself in shape, have solid finances, and have game.

You have to truly love women if you are going to be a player. You have to love them for all that they are, and understand that they are just acting in their nature with every action they do. Do most guys understand women? Nah son, most guys are pining on Instagram about how they would "drink her dirty bath water". The lack of understanding, the lack of actually loving women for being women is sky high. The thirst is also sky high, the confidence of even most high SMV men with women is low.

How many guys do you know that believe in "The One" or they shack up with any girl that will fuck them. Ask yourself how many guys do you know that have girls on multiple continents continually asking them when they'll next be in their country? My guess is probably 0 in your everyday life. I don't think that most guys are players, I think most guys get laid like once in a while when the stars align.

The amount of players, and especially men that have "high SMV" and are ALSO players is low as fuck. You want to be 1 in 100,000? Make some bank, be good with women, and keep yourself in shape throughout your 20s and into your 40s, you'll be highly sought after.

Post: #22

Idk why but I feel the rise of feminist, Sexual uprising of women, the destruction of masculinity, the lowering of testosterone, and the way laws completely fuck over women will someday cause men to give up. There will be more divorces and failed relationships, resulting in a mass surplus of guys trying to fit this player lifestyle or go MGTOW

Like I said previously, a lot of guys settle. If a girl looks decent or isn't openly crazy then that guy will make that girl his girlfriend. Also If you follow any major meme pages or pages the typical person 30 and below would follow you would notice a shift. Women are pretty much always praised and men are pretty much always cursed. The typical player life is hated and chastised more so now than ever.

Post: #23

I feel I'm the definition of an SMV. Was I married yes . Did I get a divorce because I knew monogamy wasn't for me is also a yes. Do I think I can bang hot chicks until I'm 50 yes if that's what I want to do. But getting into a relationship with a stellar woman would be my choice and not dictated by Society or the woman. It's all about making your decision and not catering to anyone besides yourself. More than half the married people I know women in churches and old school alumni functions I can Bang. I would not get married because that is what Suburban Knights or Church community is asking me to do I would only do it if I met the perfect woman for me and I'll be darned if I settle for anything less than a nine who caters to me continually.

Post: #24

(08-02-2018 06:38 PM)Bastard Sword Wrote:  Has anyone else noticed this, or does anyone see genuine male promiscuity on a regular basis? I really feel that even for high-SMV men, the default is to be in a relationship with a hot girl.

At your age... You have absolutely no idea what the people around you are actually doing. Everyone puts up a front. I mean do you really think Facebook shows what peoples lives are actually like?

Most guys who are players... don't try to come across as players. What you will notice is that their relationships are short, and they focus more of their life attention on friendship with other men.

Post: #25

It's a difficult lifestyle to sustain no doubt. It requires a lot of time, effort and money to engage in it and to then try and do this for many years is very difficult. I do see more guys in their 30s and even their 40s trying to sustain this lifestyle these days because one thing that does make it easier to get with multiple women and live a player lifestyle are dating apps. Not saying the quality of women guys are hitting are that great, they aren't and they get passed around from guy to guy as they keep swiping, trying to find Mr. Perfect but it does allow more guys to have more sex with more women than before.

Also, a lot of guys who were married for many years and got divorced are now engaging in the player lifestyle. Seeking Arrangement definitely makes that possible for a lot of older guys. As someone who is about to turn 50 in a couple weeks and is two years out of a divorce, I can say that I was in no man's land for a long time. I didn't really want to go online and plow through a bunch of mediocre women since I'm very picky as to where I will stick my dick but I definitely didn't want to have a serious girlfriend either. I dated a few nice looking girls that I picked up in person including a long distance fling which was actually perfect for me at the time and now I'm with a girl with whom I have a good situation with-hot, fun but not looking for a wedding ring or a move in date for now. I'm with [email protected], I go out for fun, I'll game just to stay sharp but ultimately I won't go for the number close or more, I just don't feel like it anymore. Plus I like the girl I'm with and I don't want to expose her to the diseases a lot of these hoes are carrying. I game now just for fun and to prove to myself that I can do it, not because I have a pathological need for some strange. To me though it does seem like a lot more guys, both younger and older are interested in the lifestyle.