Post: #1

So I've read the existing threads here and several of the blogs (mostly CH) about eye contact and this seems like the best place to start learning the basics of male/femail interaction. I still have questions, though. Bear with me if this is kindergarten stuff...I'm here to learn.

I get that the general principle is that when speaking to a girl you don't break eye contact first, and if you do, you break it to the side. Question: If I understand correctly, you should maintain eye contact while speaking to her but then look off into space slightly disinterested when she speaks to you?

I've been experimenting with this when I'm out and about on everyday errands etc., but not clubs or anything like that et.

At least here is what I've observed so far: You do have to break off eye contact at some time or it can become too intense (?) and probably creepy. For instance this first time I tried this the interaction was friendly with us both smiling and then the (rather young) cute girl looked down, maybe blushed a bit. But because I didn't break eye contact when she looked up she had to look down again and then I could see she was upset so obviously this had made her uncomfortable. Whoops. Nevertheless I did enjoy it because it was like discovering a new power I didn't know about. Lesson learned.

Generally I've noticed that the less physically attractive girl is the quicker she will look away. So it's obviously an indicator of confidence or how much male attention she's used to. I wasn't prepared for it at first but some girls will actually try to stare you down when you do this. I got caught off guard the first time doing this speaking to a girl of above average attractiveness (but a slightly slutty vibe (too much makeup), early 20's I'd guess) and lost my train of though while speaking (mumbling "...ughhh" in mid sentence) and I looked away as I just wasn't expecting such a long staring contest.

It seems like some girls stare back in a challenging way and others actually enjoy being "stared into." Like they are just opening themselves to it (and enjoying it) once it happens. But learned this - no matter what DO NOT break eye contact first. If you hold steadfast they will eventually bend to your greater willpower and look away. Sometimes it takes longer than you expect, though.

Am I on the right track?

Post: #2

Pretty much- yes

My rule is if I see an attractive girl looking at me I will lock eyes, usually smirk and not look away, forcing her to break eye contact first

These are animalistic dominance tests-she is seeing if you are more dominant than her. This is a contest she wants you to win.

If you look away first, you lost- good luck with ever banging her or even talking to her-no girl wants a man she can outstare

You're correct that hotter girls stare longer-they are the more alpha girls and are looking for a more alpha guy-one who is not intimidated by the stare of a hot girl. I've had a few remarkably long staring contests with hot girls


I'm speaking here of girls you don't know and aren't in a conversation with-the conversational eye contact is different

Post: #3

Excellent. Thank you.

So what would be the general rules once you have moved past this initial test and started a conversation? I've read that you should look off to the side and project a certain amount of indifference, but obviously this must be balanced with moments of re-establishing eye contact...

Post: #4

(05-10-2013 03:42 PM)MrXY Wrote:  Pretty much- yes

My rule is if I see an attractive girl looking at me I will lock eyes, usually smirk and not look away, forcing her to break eye contact first

These are animalistic dominance tests-she is seeing if you are more dominant than her. This is a contest she wants you to win.

If you look away first, you lost- good luck with ever banging her or even talking to her-no girl wants a man she can outstare

You're correct that hotter girls stare longer-they are the more alpha girls and are looking for a more alpha guy-one who is not intimidated by the stare of a hot girl. I've had a few remarkably long staring contests with hot girls


I'm speaking here of girls you don't know and aren't in a conversation with-the conversational eye contact is different

Ive noticed hotter girls do like to stare down guys but wouldn't it be awkward just looking at her smirking for longer then a couple seconds

Post: #5

If you ever see two women who are close friends talking together, they hold steady eye contact with each other naturally, as woman-to-woman conversation is naturally more focused on sharing emotions. Men usually speak to each other to share information of value, and since we don't need to look each other in the eye to share information, it sometimes seems unnatural to hold eye contact with women when talking to them, especially if you're used to man-to-man style of interaction only.

You'll find most girls of decent looks will hold eye contact with you without breaking (and do so unconsciously) so long as you're sharing stories/connections/emotions/ and building rapport with them. When you get good at this and it starts to feel normal to you too, you might start to notice a subtle shift ("puppy dog eyes") sometimes in their gaze. You'll see what I mean at some point... it will click and you will realize this is the moment you had her full attention and her pussy is getting a little wet, whether she knows it or not. You can be sure the bang will come soon when you notice this moment. It's a good cue for you to take her hand into yours, right there (kino ladder!) as it will be about the least-awkward thing you could do right then and she might not even notice!

Post: #6

yohami has a great post about eye contact:

http://yohami.com/blog/2012/03/31/reader...o-my-eyes/

She is “wondering” what’s your alphaness. She’s curious. She wants to find out more. If you frame it as a “test” then you’ll want to “perform and score”, like she’s your judge, placing her and her interests above of yours, and by doing so, your alphaness will be low, so her curiosity won’t be satiated, and your imaginary test will fail. So she is staring at you with status curiosity, she’s tasting you. What should you do? Look back at her with sexual curiosity. Taste her.

Post: #7

Thanks. I like this article; it makes sense...I think it also should also be fun, no? At least I'm finding it a lot more fun when they stare, now that I know to expect it. As far as tests go I'm only testing myself and I learn from each interaction. Hence I look forward to them. One challenge seems being able to think/recall thought while doing this, because if I had something to say beforehand, or was in the middle of saying something, it easily evaporates. Then it is hard to remember and I can be stuck saying "uhhhhh" in mid sentence, and that sounds indecisive (not good).

Post: #8

I have a question. what do you guys do about random guys who try to stare you down? I don't want to look weak by looking down, but having a battle with every guy is kind of exhausting.

Also lately 4s and 5s are starting to stare back at me almost in defiance when our eyes meet.And those who i consider attractive look down?.

Post: #9

(05-30-2013 02:03 PM)pirate player Wrote:  I have a question. what do you guys do about random guys who try to stare you down? I don't want to look weak by looking down, but having a battle with every guy is kind of exhausting.

Also lately 4s and 5s are starting to stare back at me almost in defiance when our eyes meet.And those who i consider attractive look down?.

Usually when i see a guy do that and we make eye contact I just give him a little nod like "wassup" but i try and stay straight faced. 9/10 the dude will either look away or nod back but seem as though he's embarrassed. Not sure if thats "alpha" thats just what I do.

Post: #10

I've learned to avoid making eye contact with girls, in certain environments, at certain times..

Who Notices Who First?

Do you notice her? Look at her? And then when she looks up, she sees you looking at her?

Or, Does she notice you? Look at you? And when you look up, you see her looking?

This can make or break things. If she sees you looking at her with a desperate or needy look on your face, you could lose value in her eyes. Better to ignore her and let her observe you first. Especially, if she observes you dressed sharp, speaking strong, and demonstrating good body language.

Sometimes, I will be at the store and I'll see a cute girl. She just entered my immediate area or I just entered hers. She has not even had a chance to look at me and study my movements, observe the grace and power that I try to move with, heard my voice or looked at my body. I want to give her a chance to do these things. These things can be like bait, they can spark her curiosity. They should, if you are carrying yourself properly.

I don't like to rush things can giving her immediate eye contact. Better to be patient sometimes. Let her soak in the vibe. Non-verbal interactions can take place. Girls will sometimes come and stand in your personal space, just to get a feel for your energy and/or invite you to open them.

Another simple but interesting point is to never look down when you make that first eye contact. Looking down to quickly makes you appear scared or insecure. Assume that you are superior to her, your eyes should communicate this. Try to calmly hold your eye contact for a second or 2 just to


P.S. Before I wrote this post, I wrote a rough draft. Here is the rough draft, I thought I should include it.

"First eye contact is important, value is displayed in that first eye contact, don't get caught peeking first, that first eye contact sets the tone for everything, if she sees you peeking at her -- she knows you like her and she takes on the power position right there, if you don't look at her but rather position yourself so that she will notice you, she is more likely to try to "get your attention". What you want to avoid is to look at her with desire/lust in your eyes because she will know she has you right at that moment, don't stare at her.

Post: #11

man this is why i love this forum.I have been practicing eye contact for a while now and today i had some great results.

SCENARIO 1: there is this girl i have been flirting with on and off for i while now, i taught her how to play cards a while ago, so when i meet her today we started playing some games, in the middle of play i would staring deep into her eyes,(like when you put on your poker face,stare deep into her eyes while putting your cards closer to your nose)
i kind you not after two or three games, she started to melt in my gaze i mean she was more interested in my eyes than the game.Also i could easily touch her hand shoulders all the way to her hips without much resistance from her.She was also jumping and giving me hugs when she wins and calling e Daddy in a sexy way.


SCENARIO 2: meet another girl just an acquaintance so i literately went cave man on her just giving her the 'I AM GONNA fuck YOU EYES' she was blubbering something about her travels and i would look exactly in her eyes when she was describing the experiences she had in a place. i could see her getting aroused and then she started throwing little hints about being DTF like having an off day tomorrow, going to her place and eating supper alone which she hated.Asking me if i was free tonight!

Ha hah i love this.

Post: #12

(06-02-2013 11:44 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 02:03 PM)pirate player Wrote:  I have a question. what do you guys do about random guys who try to stare you down? I don't want to look weak by looking down, but having a battle with every guy is kind of exhausting.

Also lately 4s and 5s are starting to stare back at me almost in defiance when our eyes meet.And those who i consider attractive look down?.

Usually when i see a guy do that and we make eye contact I just give him a little nod like "wassup" but i try and stay straight faced. 9/10 the dude will either look away or nod back but seem as though he's embarrassed. Not sure if thats "alpha" thats just what I do.

Yeah i usually fuck with those guys who who look down, by putting my cheeks or just some funny face it really is fun.
And another thing how do you guys avoid staring at a girl c leverage?. you could be melting her with deep looks but once she notices you looking at her breasts BOOM! all the sexual tensions disappear.

Post: #13

(06-03-2013 12:53 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  I've learned to avoid making eye contact with girls, in certain environments, at certain times..

Who Notices Who First?

Do you notice her? Look at her? And then when she looks up, she sees you looking at her?

Or, Does she notice you? Look at you? And when you look up, you see her looking?

This can make or break things. If she sees you looking at her with a desperate or needy look on your face, you could lose value in her eyes. Better to ignore her and let her observe you first. Especially, if she observes you dressed sharp, speaking strong, and demonstrating good body language.

Sometimes, I will be at the store and I'll see a cute girl. She just entered my immediate area or I just entered hers. She has not even had a chance to look at me and study my movements, observe the grace and power that I try to move with, heard my voice or looked at my body. I want to give her a chance to do these things. These things can be like bait, they can spark her curiosity. They should, if you are carrying yourself properly.

I don't like to rush things can giving her immediate eye contact. Better to be patient sometimes. Let her soak in the vibe. Non-verbal interactions can take place. Girls will sometimes come and stand in your personal space, just to get a feel for your energy and/or invite you to open them.

Another simple but interesting point is to never look down when you make that first eye contact. Looking down to quickly makes you appear scared or insecure. Assume that you are superior to her, your eyes should communicate this. Try to calmly hold your eye contact for a second or 2 just to


P.S. Before I wrote this post, I wrote a rough draft. Here is the rough draft, I thought I should include it.

"First eye contact is important, value is displayed in that first eye contact, don't get caught peeking first, that first eye contact sets the tone for everything, if she sees you peeking at her -- she knows you like her and she takes on the power position right there, if you don't look at her but rather position yourself so that she will notice you, she is more likely to try to "get your attention". What you want to avoid is to look at her with desire/lust in your eyes because she will know she has you right at that moment, don't stare at her.

This is probably true about "don't look first" but it is also funny because they are totally doing this all the time (trying not to look like the instigator) , especially when they're in a twosome and asking their friend "is he looking?" hahah

Post: #14

These are the rules that I use:
1. Look directly at the person and don't shy away. This goes double when you are doing the talking.
2. If you absolutely have to look away don't simply look away but you should actually look AT something else.
3. If you are being talked to then try to look away approximately 30% of the time and look directly at the person 40% of the time. The other 30% can be looking through the person or whatever.
4. Most importantly maintain the frame of mind that establishes you as a cool, interesting guy who is self-confident and not afraid. If you do this then your body language and behavior will follow.

Post: #15

(06-03-2013 05:19 PM)pirate player Wrote:  

(06-02-2013 11:44 PM)Jazzman92 Wrote:  

(05-30-2013 02:03 PM)pirate player Wrote:  I have a question. what do you guys do about random guys who try to stare you down? I don't want to look weak by looking down, but having a battle with every guy is kind of exhausting.

Also lately 4s and 5s are starting to stare back at me almost in defiance when our eyes meet.And those who i consider attractive look down?.

Usually when i see a guy do that and we make eye contact I just give him a little nod like "wassup" but i try and stay straight faced. 9/10 the dude will either look away or nod back but seem as though he's embarrassed. Not sure if thats "alpha" thats just what I do.

Yeah i usually fuck with those guys who who look down, by putting my cheeks or just some funny face it really is fun.
And another thing how do you guys avoid staring at a girl c leverage?. you could be melting her with deep looks but once she notices you looking at her breasts BOOM! all the sexual tensions disappear.

I have this problem too but I've noticed if you don't get embarrassed about it after she catches you staring at her tits and instead you play it off cool and unapologetic, in many circumstances it gets the girl pretty aroused. I used to think "no matter what don't look at her cleavage" especially when a girls tits are practically popping out of her shirt but I'm sure she realizes it and shows them off purposely to get attention from men.

Post: #16

(06-03-2013 12:53 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  I've learned to avoid making eye contact with girls, in certain environments, at certain times..

Who Notices Who First?

Do you notice her? Look at her? And then when she looks up, she sees you looking at her?

Or, Does she notice you? Look at you? And when you look up, you see her looking?

This can make or break things. If she sees you looking at her with a desperate or needy look on your face, you could lose value in her eyes. Better to ignore her and let her observe you first. Especially, if she observes you dressed sharp, speaking strong, and demonstrating good body language.

Sometimes, I will be at the store and I'll see a cute girl. She just entered my immediate area or I just entered hers. She has not even had a chance to look at me and study my movements, observe the grace and power that I try to move with, heard my voice or looked at my body. I want to give her a chance to do these things. These things can be like bait, they can spark her curiosity. They should, if you are carrying yourself properly.

I don't like to rush things can giving her immediate eye contact. Better to be patient sometimes. Let her soak in the vibe. Non-verbal interactions can take place. Girls will sometimes come and stand in your personal space, just to get a feel for your energy and/or invite you to open them.

Another simple but interesting point is to never look down when you make that first eye contact. Looking down to quickly makes you appear scared or insecure. Assume that you are superior to her, your eyes should communicate this. Try to calmly hold your eye contact for a second or 2 just to


P.S. Before I wrote this post, I wrote a rough draft. Here is the rough draft, I thought I should include it.

"First eye contact is important, value is displayed in that first eye contact, don't get caught peeking first, that first eye contact sets the tone for everything, if she sees you peeking at her -- she knows you like her and she takes on the power position right there, if you don't look at her but rather position yourself so that she will notice you, she is more likely to try to "get your attention". What you want to avoid is to look at her with desire/lust in your eyes because she will know she has you right at that moment, don't stare at her.

Good summary. When it comes to meeting women during the day, beginners should remember you don't always have to approach immediately.

For example, I've had girls open me at bookstores, and you make these interactions easier (regardless of who initiates conversation) by understanding proximity and a relaxed, non-rushed vibe, so that your own shopping naturally turns into both of you browsing together.

For the more visual learners reading this, here's an exaggerated illustration of what's been discussed about not getting caught peeking, and being aware of your environment:

Post: #17

When you see a woman for the first time in an elevator/hallway in your apt building/workplace---do you give them strong eye contact or pull the ignore move? Alot of guys I know don't maintain eye contact.

Post: #18

What I've been doing lately is if I'm walking and 50 meters ahead I see an attractive woman walking towards me, I consciously look around my environment, very subtle. Maybe I'll have a slight tilt in my head sideways looking at that building with people coming out of it, and that one girl dressed in blue.

When she comes close into my vicinity, maybe 10 meters, I'll slowly tilt my head forward and acknowledge her with eye contact, look her down and back at her eyes just before we walk by. If she finds me attractive she will usually meet my eyes and hold it and she will know I looked her down. She will probably show some sign of nervousness such as looking down or giving away a shy smile, or touch her hair in some way.

These are excellent times to approach. I am guilty of doing the above and not approaching on most occasions..

On my college campus the above scenario happens a dozen times a day. So in any case you are still working on your game by not denying your masculinity and showing intent, but you are calibrating it. You're not overly needy (looking at her like she is the best thing you've ever seen in your life the whole time) but you're not denying her presence like the other guys who are afraid to lock eye contact with her.

Try it. Do the sex eyes while you do it too. And if you're not afraid to look back, if done right and you sense she was attracted to you she will almost always try to sneak a look back to see if you are still looking..

Obviously the best way to make the most of this is to approach. But again practicing your intentions and expressing masculinity on its own is developing your game.

Post: #19

(06-10-2013 10:17 PM)sucio44 Wrote:  When you see a woman for the first time in an elevator/hallway in your apt building/workplace---do you give them strong eye contact or pull the ignore move? Alot of guys I know don't maintain eye contact.

Strong eye contact is very important but only one part of the equation.

You should have strong eye contract with a subtle smile. Some of the best players I know are masters of the strong eye contact and a subtle smile.

You don't want this look:



but instead, look like this:



See that subtle smile? You want to have a set of, "I'll kill you eyes" with a deviant smile. Women go crazy for this as it reads as mysterious for them. Think, "What is he thinking? Why does he think he knows what I am going to say next?"

It creates some tension.

However, all of this is moot if your verbal game sucks. You need to be witty, sly, funny, and charming to pull of this type of look.

Post: #20

Im pretty bad with maintaining eye contact if I see a woman up ahead I find myself doing the ignore move but I think im fine if im actually having a conversation with a girl

Post: #21

(08-21-2013 10:41 AM)Nascimento Wrote:  not denying your masculinity and showing intent

I like this. Looking down or looking away is not very masculine. If we want a girl, we must not be afraid to look her in the eyes.

We are men, we don't need to hide our intentions.

They often like a man who knows what he wants and goes after it.

*****

I have a bunch of notes about "Eye Language". I was going to make a seperate thread but I will just post them all here:

My Eye Language Notes..

Do you know how to use "eye contact" to increase attraction? Or, does "eye contact" make you uncomfortable?

Don't stare at her, and make her the center of attention. Don't look at her "too serious". Keep your eye contact playful and flirty. Be distracted by other things around the room. Don't ever look down in a submissive way. Don't move your eyes around in a quick, unsure, weird way.

Be aware of how much eye contact she is giving you.
Your eye language say alot about you. This is a big part of "Body Language".

I wanted to share something else about eye-contact. When a girl looks you in the eye she is basically testing you. Are you man enough to look her back in the eye and just hold that eye contact in a comfortable non-creepy way . Sometimes eye-contact can seem uncomfortable or weird. This is usually an inner game problem with you or the girl.

I usually have a little smile or smirk on my face. Don't ever appear to be intimidated by her eyes.

Learn to relax your face and not hold any tension or uneasiness in your face and body.

I have noticed that when a girl starts to like me, she starts to look at me a little differently. She is looking deeper into my soul to see if she can find any "chinks in the armor".

Don't let your eyes give you away. Don't look away like the little high school girl who just made eye contact with popular guy in school. Keep your eyes strong and don't move your eye balls all over the place like a nervous animal. The better you get at "eye-language" the stronger your inner game will be.

"The eyes are windows to the soul"

Post: #22

(08-22-2013 03:36 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

(06-10-2013 10:17 PM)sucio44 Wrote:  When you see a woman for the first time in an elevator/hallway in your apt building/workplace---do you give them strong eye contact or pull the ignore move? Alot of guys I know don't maintain eye contact.

Strong eye contact is very important but only one part of the equation.

You should have strong eye contract with a subtle smile. Some of the best players I know are masters of the strong eye contact and a subtle smile.

You don't want this look:



but instead, look like this:



See that subtle smile? You want to have a set of, "I'll kill you eyes" with a deviant smile. Women go crazy for this as it reads as mysterious for them. Think, "What is he thinking? Why does he think he knows what I am going to say next?"

It creates some tension.

However, all of this is moot if your verbal game sucks. You need to be witty, sly, funny, and charming to pull of this type of look.

It's very difficult (impossible?) to fake this look. To get it right you actually have to feel how you imagine a guy looking at a girl like that feels. One way to do this is to think about moments in your life where you've felt like that. Like you looked at a girl and just knew you were going to be ravishing her later that night. Then remember that moment as you look/chat up the girl. She will pick up on it and things will go better for you. The magic formula is eye contact + congruent emotional state.

Post: #23

(06-03-2013 12:53 AM)Giovonny Wrote:  "First eye contact is important, value is displayed in that first eye contact, don't get caught peeking first, that first eye contact sets the tone for everything, if she sees you peeking at her -- she knows you like her and she takes on the power position right there, if you don't look at her but rather position yourself so that she will notice you, she is more likely to try to "get your attention". What you want to avoid is to look at her with desire/lust in your eyes because she will know she has you right at that moment, don't stare at her.
[/i]

I may be lacking in one major aspect of my game (I am not physically aggressive in the slightest), but I have gotten positive responses from the way I look at women for awhile.

I blatantly stare at the women I want. When I look at them, I feel nothing beyond my desire for them. Literally, zero emotions are felt beyond pure lust when I look at women I am attracted to. For whatever reason, it has worked for me.

My prime example of this is, this girl I dated back in April. You could check back to my posts in April, I was making very "beta" posts about her because she was absolutely stunning. She was just a drop dead gorgeous girl. Our first interaction was what captured her attention. We were in a lobby, I was waiting for class to start with a couple of my group members as we discussed our project for the class. She went to sit down at a chair across from me. As I was talking to my group members, I straight up looked her in the eyes and held it because I liked what I saw. She smiled while making eye contact with me, and I smiled back while tilting my head up slightly. I walked away to get some food. While I was gone, she walked up to my group members, asked them if I had a girlfriend, then wrote her name and phone number down on a pad of paper, and told them to tell me that she wanted me to ask her out on a date.

So, my go to eye contact method has been, blatantly stare at the women I want. If they notice me, I wait a little to see if they smile. Usually they will smile within three seconds. Regardless of whether or not they smile, after three seconds or so I will tilt my head up slightly while smiling.

In the end, I have no idea how effective it all is. I just do what I do.

(08-22-2013 03:36 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

Last Friday, I went to the bars with a girl who works at a coffee shop I frequented during my summer internship.

The bar we went to later in the night has a large outdoor patio area. I went outside for a smoke, as I was walking, I passed this very cute blonde girl. I looked at her exactly like John Ham in the picture, I was even turning my face to the right to look at her. Her response: big smile followed by, "Hey... what's up?" while holding a big smile with a slight head tilt upwards.

Looking at girls like that works in my world.

Post: #24

(08-22-2013 09:42 PM)Ensam Wrote:  It's very difficult (impossible?) to fake this look. To get it right you actually have to feel how you imagine a guy looking at a girl like that feels. One way to do this is to think about moments in your life where you've felt like that. Like you looked at a girl and just knew you were going to be ravishing her later that night. Then remember that moment as you look/chat up the girl. She will pick up on it and things will go better for you. The magic formula is eye contact + congruent emotional state.

It's not much of a fake so to speak. It's probably a difference in temperament.

All or Nothing mentioned it in the post above me. I really don't feel much emotion beyond "desire", but I don't like the death stare that I give. Adding a smile adds a little deviant mystery and certainly makes a cold open a lot easier.

If I don't smile, girls "uncomfortable" meter goes way up. It's part of my comfort. A smile seems to calm them down.

Post: #25

The eye contact talk is really interesting. I think using it instead of staring at a girl's body in admiration or lust, takes her off the pedestal and humanizes her.

You know, I'll be at the gym and see hot girls. I'll check them out, and feel totally inadequate. Like I'm looking at porn or something. But when we walk by, or if they look at me I focus completely on their faces/eyes and ignore the body. They just become floating heads.

Surprisingly, I find myself LESS attracted to them after I humanize them and realize how their faces look. I'm a sucker for asses/legs so often my gaze goes here, but when I check out a girl's face or make eye contact I feel much more "equal" with a girl.

Just have to snap out of that habit of staring like a pervert.