Post: #1

I know there is a lot of potential in Africa for work, as many say that the continent is up and coming. Personally I see opportunity there, but I am wondering if there are any jobs recommended for a foreign expat. I am talking about oil&gas, Mining, security, Engineering. Anything contract based or people who have had experience in this field would be great.

Post: #2

I've wondered that too.

You may get some good ideas by watching this documentary:
Africa's Cowboy Capitalists
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GslPzhFLyas

I get the sense that the Chinese are everywhere in Africa and that they are wearing out their welcome. That they care only about money, and do not interact in any meaningful way with local Africans. Surely there must be opportunity for anyone who speaks Chinese but comes from a country with a better reputation, for example, the U.S. ('Where do you want to go?' 'America!') and can mediate between the two groups.

There is probably a fortune to be made in Angola, riding high on oil profits and now one of the most expensive places in the world, or at least its calital Luanda.

Post: #3

Thanks for the link, I will defiently check that out.
Asia and Africa are the next places coming up, big banks don't seem to be based in Africa, they may fly in and out of the country; but there is no anchor in this continent. The Chinese have settled in there, although I don't know for how long, the cultural differences are too vast. Believe it or not I can see potential with a Russia and African connection.

Post: #4

The Chinese government has a history of sending its convicted criminals to Africa as indentured servants.

If they work off their sentences (and thus avoid jail time), they are free men. Many of them stay and make bank running the trades that they have learned through hustling for their former overlords.

As a result in the African bush there are hardened Chinese men turning shit into sugar. These are remote, inhospitable places where a Westerner tends not to go.

Post: #5

(06-22-2014 04:41 PM)Yeti Wrote:  The Chinese government has a history of sending its convicted criminals to Africa as indentured servants.

If they work off their sentences (and thus avoid jail time), they are free men. Many of them stay and make bank running the trades that they have learned through hustling for their former overlords.

As a result in the African bush there are hardened Chinese men turning shit into sugar. These are remote, inhospitable places where a Westerner tends not to go.

where did you here this from ??
TIA man .... TIA

Post: #6

(06-22-2014 04:27 PM)Constitution45 Wrote:  Thanks for the link, I will defiently check that out.
Asia and Africa are the next places coming up, big banks don't seem to be based in Africa, they may fly in and out of the country; but there is no anchor in this continent. The Chinese have settled in there, although I don't know for how long, the cultural differences are too vast. Believe it or not I can see potential with a Russia and African connection.

"The Chinese have settled in there, although I don't know for how long..."

As long as there are resources to extract, and money to be made.

Post: #7

What kind of jobs do Chinese people in Africa do?

Can you make good money? Would you make more money at home?

The Chinese are bloody everywhere in the world, running small businesses and restaurants. But as the economy in China improves, perhaps they will be more tempted to return. It's tough to make bank running a fried chicken place in Santo Domingo, or a grocery store in Belize.

I imagine that part of the allure for PRC citizens of doing hard work in the African bush (construction, mining) is that they are truly free for the first time in their lives. Even if the pay is not amazing. You can raise your family and be left alone in what are often natural, beautiful places (in their own way). Your heavy-handed government back home has no say in your life, and the government of your new home leaves you alone. There's something to be said for that.

One of the differences between Chinese and Western entrepreneurs in Africa is that the Westerner has more temptation to return home if things don't work out right away - there is still a pretty good life to be had back home.

But a Chinese peasant who ends up in Africa, far from the home that treated him as disposable and low-status? He will gladly keep hustling in the bush.

Post: #8

(06-22-2014 05:32 PM)Yeti Wrote:  What kind of jobs do Chinese people in Africa do?

Mostly importation of Chinese products for resale in Africa or they are middle men in natural resource trade.

Quote:Can you make good money? Would you make more money at home?

The Chinese are bloody everywhere in the world, running small businesses and restaurants. But as the economy in China improves, perhaps they will be more tempted to return. It's tough to make bank running a fried chicken place in Santo Domingo, or a grocery store in Belize.

I don't think most people get that Chinese people don't just hang out running the same chicken store forever. It's all about multi-generational economic and social mobility. That same dude running a chicken stand probably scrimped and saved then sent his kids through college and now they are a couple class tiers higher. Now that old guy probably runs it in his spare time while he's investing his money elsewhere or owns a couple houses. This is quite unlike other immigrants who get involved in the underclass lifestyle and become thugs or have 10 kids living off welfare.

Chinese and Japanese in Peru and Brazil are a good example of how far NE work ethic goes in the latin developing world.

Post: #9

Erik Prince (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Prince)the founder of Black Water mercenary group is in Africa now running security and several projects for the Chinese as well as his own groups. He started a private equity firm called frontier resource group (http://frontierresourcegroup.com/) that owns several businesses all over Africa. You may want to check and see what they have available.

Post: #10

Africa is a good place to do business if you have a proper understanding of the local environment. A lot of risk-averse companies are afraid to go in, so a bold entrepreneur can potentially cash in.

but obviously the political instability, corruption, and lack of infrastructure are huge issues.

Post: #11

Lots of oil and gas jobs over there, I have some friends who worked in west Africa (mostly Nigeria and Angola but also offshore Ghana and Ivory Coast) and made a killing, some of the expat packages are very well compensated. There's a lot of drilling going on in East Africa too, Uganda and Mozambique mostly. Just check out the job sections of Rig Zone and Oil Careers. Most of the jobs are for experienced personnel so if you want to work there, you'd be best off putting in a few years in your local oil patch if you're in Canada, USA, Oz or the UK.

Post: #12

Lots of money to be made I'm sure, political instability is the big tough part. Also, you need to be tough. Crime is a big issue there. Even in South Africa which is a relatively first-world country (for Africa) crime is still a huge issue. If you have paper, you'll be a target. If you can get in there, there are tons of natural resources left on that continent for the picking. Might have to shake some hands with some shady people, but it's there.

Post: #13

For Americans, and others, thinking of starting businesses on the continent read up on AGOA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Gro...nity_Act). It's a piece of US legislation removing duty on qualifying African imports into the US. Signed into law by Clinton, extended by Bush (W). I'm lead to believe Obama is against it, but it is still in place nevertheless. It was intended to help spur growth, especially employment growth, in sub-Saharan Africa. In practice this hasn't really happened. It is mostly used by capital intensive companies exporting high value items to the US, rather than labour intensive products like clothing. In South Africa BMW is a big beneficiary. I think all 3-series BMW's in the US are manufactured in South Africa and allowed into the US mostly duty free ("mostly" because the value of the parts of the car produced outside SA, say in Germany, would attract duty.

As for crime. Can't speak about most of Africa, but it's South Africa that gets most of the negative press here anyway. "It's complicated". Prospective investors should make a LSD trip (...Look, See, Do) to check things out for themselves before putting on any money or deciding to move.

Post: #14

Vice a while back did a thing about truckers going to Africa making bank. You not only have to drive but also be handy, if I remember correctly they broke something and had to use bananas as lube or oil to get to the next destination by cramming bananas into the axle or something like that. You can probably find it on youtube.

Post: #15

Do you have experience working abroad? Do you have top tier skills in whatever field you do? Why is a company going to pay 5-10x more for you, when they could conceivably get locals? They certainly have engineers, medics and strong men in Africa.

When I got out of school (Mech Eng) I wanted basically the exact same thing. The romance of travel and living abroad and all that. You know what? Even Americans when they found out I was Canadian wouldn't look twice. The bottom line was I had no experience. You really need to bring something to the table. So like Scotian said, I started with an Oil and Gas service company in Canada, and after 2.5 years moved to Texas, 1.5 years more, finally got to Indonesia, but that still took a lot of pushing on my end. I brought experience to the table. Despite not being able to drive, speak the language well, or knowing the cultural niceties, they paid me like 5-6x what they paid the locals because I had the experience in exactly what they needed, and was willing to put up with the nonsense living conditions. Basically I'd go out with local engineers, they'd handle all the talking and basic shit, then when it got more involved I'd watch, help and teach.

The other thing I'd recommend and make sure some huge multinational company has your back, either by being a contractor to them, or a direct employee. They have the knowledge and clout to deal with all the BS that goes with corrupt third world countries and the games played. Try not to rely on other small businesses, or hell even having employees if you can. Our company hired some local courier in Indo to deliver $80,000 cash (cash is basically the only thing that flies there) to gov't for a "truck registration", and surprise surprise the guy got "robbed" and basically they said it was our problem. Now they have local clout, but then we have fixers with contacts in the police and army to make sure stuff goes smooth. Somehow it got resolved and they found it, but again local culture and politics dominated, and I'm sure it wasn't squeaky clean. Talking to people who rented jet skis or ran bars, or any other small business type thing in Mexico/Thailand etc, you're viewed as the rich foreigner. Everything will take twice as long, be half the quality, you're sort of relegated to dealing with people who know English, and you'll pay for that privilege. You can't be competitive. Being viewed as rich, employees will steal from you if you aren't there. I lived for 1.5 yrs on the US border. The culture is exclusively Mexican. My boss was from away, all the engineers were too, and all the bottom line operators lived there their whole lives. Even though it was the US, Mexican culture prevailed, and they looked after their own. They knew we would all be gone in a couple years on to different assignments. When trucks broke down, it was their friends' shop who fixed them. Tools would go missing, hell even when we were changing shops a flat screen TV we used for our job board 'got lost in the move'. Basically the point is that to drop into a completely new culture from outside and get fast loyalty is damn near impossible.

Part of the reason I think is that the education system in these places isn't great, and the average person often isn't all that intelligent or thinking long term. They know you're probably not here for the long haul where as they are, and in short their priority is to get as much money of you, as quickly as possible, often by hook or crook. Now this varies country to country, in Indonesia for instance, you had crooked cabs, and then you had a couple brands which were renowned for their honesty, and they flourished. You'd think people would get the hint.

The other thing that is mentioned, when any ethnic group has their shit together and goes into a different country and is successful, this can breed immense resentment from the locals. This can put you in a very bad situation, because if locals aren't doing so well, "those damn ethnics took all our jawwwwbs" is a convenient excuse to ethnically cleanse you and seize your assets. Despite the fact the economic argument could be made that if your neighbor is rich selling better farming techniques, you too profit from more and cheaper food, but again, when you don't have a job, you get very myopic. You need to look no further than the whites in SA, Jews in Germany, Chinese in Indonesia, as mentioned Japanese in Peru, or even Mexicans in the states. This can extend from simply resentment, to full blown, burning down your shop and shooting you.

I'm really not trying to be harsh, but the main point is that you almost sound like me nearly a decade ago fresh out of university. I can't believe how green and ignorant I was. If you were anywhere ready to be working internationally in shit holes, you probably wouldn't be posting these sorts of questions.

Now on the other hand, I'm sorry if I sound like its all complaining, because it was really a valuable interesting experience. I definitely met a lot of great people, and saw a lot of cool shit, and made decent money. If you get the opportunity to do it I'd jump on it in a second, but at the same time, I don't think that life style is sustainable long term. You're literally trading your life for cash.

Post: #16

I have heard good things of working in Ethiopia. No Ebola, no terrorists groups known or unknown for that matter. There are differences of opinion whether or not the local girls are hot or not. I like black women but ethiopian women arent the typical african black women. I like shapes and curves but not that much
It seems Addis Ababa is a safe, clean capital and it is not a dangerous sodden infested bugs ridden hell hole like the ones in West Africa like Liberia where Ebola kills people by the hundreds.
I am into telecommunications industry so if there is a good niche to exploit, give me a clean capital first, no wars and armed warriors and I could try the adventure of relocating.

Post: #17

Surely the best opportunities here are entrepreneurial?

Eg: creating work/labour supply agencies through networking. Lots of skilled people required; little regulation in Africa.

Post: #18

(06-23-2014 06:54 PM)From Vegas to Tokyo Wrote:  Lots of money to be made I'm sure, political instability is the big tough part. Also, you need to be tough. Crime is a big issue there. Even in South Africa which is a relatively first-world country (for Africa) crime is still a huge issue. If you have paper, you'll be a target. If you can get in there, there are tons of natural resources left on that continent for the picking. Might have to shake some hands with some shady people, but it's there.

Crime is a much bigger issue in South Africa than a lot of other countries. In a lot of African countries, which are much poorer than South Africa, there's less crime because 1) everyone is poor so there's not much to steal, 2) religion helps suppress the crime rate. South Africa sort of has the combination of problems of a rich modern country and a poor premodern one. It pretty much sounds like a terrible place to live.

I worked in Africa for three years as a Peace Corps volunteer, so anyone who's curious can send me a message and I'll try to help. It depends largely on what your work experience and skills are.