Post: #1

This is the best rant against marriage I've ever read. And I've read a lot of rants against marriage. This one is worth the effort.

Some context.

Blogger Donlak wrote an article why it's okay to get married if you have game: https://donlak.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/get-married/

Then a guy named Mark Minter decides to set things straight. (Grab a beer, sit down for 15-30 minutes, and read this.)


Marriage is for Pussies

By Mark Minter



This is the most ridiculous logic I have heard. To call someone a pussy that counsels not to get married because of the risk is blowhard bullshit. You have a 1 in 1,000,000 chance of dying when you leave the house. You have 1 in 2 chance of divorce. 1 in 2. My opinion and observation of data is that your odds are higher if you marry someone attractive. Higher still if you were a player. So go to a roulette wheel and bet 40% of all of your future income on the red or the black. Same thing. It depends on your definition of Game. Some say Game is proactive and allows you to get the best out of life. I think it is somewhat reactive. I say it is defensive. Game enables you to avoid Oneitis and to make sane and rational decisions, to not be dragged, tricked, or manipulated into marriage.

You ever been married for 17 years? I have. I know what it is like. I know the boredom you will experience. I know what it is like to be chained to a career that is not your choosing because of the financial pressures placed on you. I am a expert at mid 19th Russian history because my fucking wife went to bed early for 10 years. Ask me how much mid 19th century Russian history I have read since divorce. None. I spent this weekend watching every college game on TV.

The odds are you probably will end up divorced. You don’t know how to be married. You think you do and you think that Game might help to avoid divorce. Fuck off. The only way you will stay married is if she has no better alternative to you. And if you have no balls. If you are a nice little handyman, if you stand around and hold her coat and let her direct the movie, then she might just let you keep on being her slave. All this talk about Game saving you from divorce is pretty recent and to me, mighty suspect with what I know about being married. My opinion is that if you are a lion, then you will be divorced. If you are a mouse then you might be divorced. You have to toe the line of what women think is the “good dad” and you will have to subordinate yourself to the woman’s definition of the “greater good”. Both me and my brother-in-law were faced with a situation where both of us had vetted wives based on the fact that they would work. “Sure. Sure. We love to work. We’re modern women”. Then when the kids came both wives quit or got fired. They were both faced with some tough situations at work and both sat down. “My baby needs me.” Fuck that. She didn’t work anymore and used the convenient justification. Both, my brother-in-law and I freaked out. Both women felt absolutely justified. “People change. When I said I would work, I didn’t know the reality of how much I would want to be with my child.” You can say same about a ton of things, where you live, how much money is acceptable, how big a house. Also, my wife was supposed to inherit about 7 million dollars from her dad and then the dad re-married, out of the blue, right before he died, and the new wife took a great chunk of that money when the will was changed. My ex-wife figured, hey a few million isn’t enough for two people to live on so it is in her advantage to ditch this guy before her dad died.

Fine, marriage might work out for you. It probably won’t and you will fuck yourself bad. It happens to 1 in 2 men. 1 in fucking 2.

This might be the first time I have read this blog and I don’t know man, but I certainly will filter anything you might write after this. This is pure hyper macho “Real alphas aren’t afraid to marry”. Fine, get a revolver, but 3 bullets in it, spin the chamber, and put it to your head. Same thing, buddy. 1 in 2 man.

The essence of modern divorce law is that it changes the classical trade of surplus labor for sex. Once anyone can receive the benefit from any deal without supplying their part then you can bet your ass that they will use the situation to their advantage. Dalrock wrote last week that the modern church preaches that it is the duty of the woman to withhold sex to coerce her husband into acting “right” as she defines “right” to be. Fairness never enters into it. “He won’t go to Home Depot with me because I want to change all the light switches in the house because I don’t like them and he wants to watch stupid football instead”. That’s justification enough for her to withhold sex. Or “I’m too tired. I have my job and the kids.” or any 100s of reasons that the hamster will use to justify it and you can do nothing to keep it from happening. So then when she has starved you out for 6 months and then you look at porn after hours and hours of being alone, then “Aha, he looks a porn and I am justified in divorcing him”. The law gives the woman undue advantage legally and you are hoping she will listen to her better angels and not take advantage.

It not a lack of courage. It is prudentiality. You examine the rewards and you consider the risk as well as the potential loss. And just because you have read four blogs that say game your wife and she won’t leave you is not enough to make me forget that millions of men are tossed out into the street every year. You can read all you want about trading in Forex and think you are just the shit on trading the JPY-EUR pair and then lose your ass. Prudentiality or prudence, however you want to look at it, will allow to know a bad risk when you see it. Courage has nothing to do with judgement.

Your kidding yourself if you think you can eliminate risk by looking at age, education, parental history, and a bunch of factors. The only safe way is to not marry. And it is not a coward’s way out. You will be happier in the end when you are 55, 60, 70. I have been alone for two years now at 57. The lack of stress, of not having a bitch, of no abuse, of no arguments, no Home Depot, no stupid female bullshit is tremendous. My dad never remarried after my mom died. They fought for years throughout the whole marriage and she slept alone in another room for about 5 years before she died. No one was more Alpha then him. He partied a bit and she was always on his ass about it. Once she accused him of having a girlfriend and he said “Evelyn, you may not have cured me of drinking, but you damn sure cured me of women.” And he meant it. After she died, he never even had a girlfriend.

We all thought “Gosh, he must be lonely” He fucking wasn’t. He had ample money to do as he pleased and he did exactly that. I didn’t really know how happy he was to not have 5 kids up his ass all wanting something from him and a bitch on his back all the time. Until I did it.

He had sort of been a role model for me. I surely wanted to wait to marry, to not have a lot of kids, because even as a boy I figured out he was getting the shit end of the stick. I should have paid even better attention and never married.

Sure, when your in your 30s and early 40s, people will think there is something fucked with you because they all think old school, if you were worth a shit then a woman would want you or you would “man up”.

You have to leave all that bullshit thinking behind. Like it or not, this is a new era in mankind. Marriage is and will continue to be the first casualty of PostModernism.

You know what. I am going exactly the other direction from you. You are a pussy if you do marry. You are a coward that is falling for conditioning, that you need the social validation of it, that you are afraid that you will be alone when you are old, that you need to follow what you are told to do and man-up and meet your responsibilities, that you are afraid to stick your nose out there and continue to struggle to get what you want from women and from the world and you want a bitch to tell you what to do, that you are such a fucking wimp that you need a woman so you can lay your head on her chest and seek your mother like you were a little baby infant (Coco Chanel’s word about men, not mine).

Pussy.

Post: #2

Post: #3

(09-05-2012 01:20 PM)Samseau Wrote:  The odds are you probably will end up divorced. You don’t know how to be married. You think you do and you think that Game might help to avoid divorce. Fuck off. The only way you will stay married is if she has no better alternative to you. And if you have no balls. If you are a nice little handyman, if you stand around and hold her coat and let her direct the movie, then she might just let you keep on being her slave.

This is true, in a statistical sense. Most guys don't know how to lead a relationship with a woman, and putting a ring on it only makes things worse. But what if you're not that guy? What if you do know how? How bad is marriage then? I've never really been in relationships to experience the decline that a married man might experience.

The flaws chicks have, I can see them a mile away. So can the other guys here. I see most girls, and think "God damn, I can't imagine ANY man wifing this woman." Of course, it takes years for some guys to see flaws in a woman that I could glean in a five minute conversation.

I'm not stumping for marriage; I personally have no stake in it, and if I did get married, it wouldn't happen for several years. Guess I'm just optimistic that for the right guy who picks the right girl, marriage can work. That said, the average woman horrifies me; of all the girls that I meet even briefly, I seriously like about one to two a year.

Post: #4

Here's another Mark Minter that's getting married...and this is what marriage is in America: http://www.amazingregistry.com/wedding-r...a=73074306

Once you've been married and divorced, it's like a near death experience. The mysteries and reality of marriage have been exposed, and you see it for the empty shell that it is. For marriage to be successful you need not just the right person, but the right society/social structure.

Post: #5

Great read. Glad you posted this.

Post: #6

"...you are such a fucking wimp that you need a woman so you can lay your head on her chest and seek your mother like you were a little baby infant"

I think that's why the majority of men get married. It frankly disgusts me. It's frustrating living in the deep south where marriage often still occurs immediately after college graduation. Several of my friends tell me they're "thinking about it" with their current GFs. I want to punch them in the face. Maybe I should just divorce them as friends.

Post: #7

Doesn't it disgust you when females talk about how they are independent, don't need a man and can live by themselves without ever getting married?

Post: #8

I would marry Oprah tomorrow. Why? A billion and a half dollars. LIQUID! I would wife any broad with millions in the bank. I've done enough stupid/ self effacing dumb shit for love in my youth, but I would only marry for MONEY. Her money. 44 years young in August, no kids, and my shit is my shit. I don't have to check in or consult with anyone. All of my friends that are married (more than 5 years) with kids envy me, and wish they had followed my lead. Do I have a "girlfriend"? Yep. Do I get other pussy? Yep. If we broke up will it devastate me emotionally, and financially? Nope. I'm a free man in a land of slaves, and vassals.

Post: #9

What I appreciate is that the posters to Donlak's piece challenged him also. He took a specific topic, marriage, and gave a generic "something bad can happen to you any day you leave the house" answer as to why men should marry. You have to do better than that - you have to lay out what you think the benefits are. Saying "real alphas don't fear marriage" doesn't really provide a solid argument for his position.

Post: #10

(09-05-2012 02:46 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  What I appreciate is that the posters to Donlak's piece challenged him also. He took a specific topic, marriage, and gave a generic "something bad can happen to you any day you leave the house" answer as to why men should marry. You have to do better than that - you have to lay out what you think the benefits are. Saying "real alphas don't fear marriage" doesn't really provide a solid argument for his position.

The problem isn't risk. It's risk without any payoff. There's a huge cost to never getting in cars, or to never leaving your house.

The question is - what is the cost to not getting married? If you don't want kids, I see none at all.

Personally, I'd like to raise children at some point, and I don't see any good alternative to marriage for that. That aside, I see no reason to get married.

Post: #11

(09-05-2012 02:57 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 02:46 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  What I appreciate is that the posters to Donlak's piece challenged him also. He took a specific topic, marriage, and gave a generic "something bad can happen to you any day you leave the house" answer as to why men should marry. You have to do better than that - you have to lay out what you think the benefits are. Saying "real alphas don't fear marriage" doesn't really provide a solid argument for his position.

The problem isn't risk. It's risk without any payoff. There's a huge cost to never getting in cars, or to never leaving your house.

The question is - what is the cost to not getting married? If you don't want kids, I see none at all.

Personally, I'd like to raise children at some point, and I don't see any good alternative to marriage for that. That aside, I see no reason to get married.

Raising children is the ONLY reason I can see getting married. I think we should try to give kids a shot at having a nuclear family, and if you end up separated/divorced, you do your best to still be the best dad you can be. But that's it - you must have a burning desire to be a father. I know some guys have discussed simply knocking a chick up without attempting to marry her, and simply going to court to work out custody. I get where they're coming from, but I think it's better to be under the same roof with your kid in the early years, and truly establishing yourself as a dominant figure in your child's life. You can't influence them the same way if you're not there from the beginning, every day.

Post: #12

(09-05-2012 03:04 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 02:57 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 02:46 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  What I appreciate is that the posters to Donlak's piece challenged him also. He took a specific topic, marriage, and gave a generic "something bad can happen to you any day you leave the house" answer as to why men should marry. You have to do better than that - you have to lay out what you think the benefits are. Saying "real alphas don't fear marriage" doesn't really provide a solid argument for his position.

The problem isn't risk. It's risk without any payoff. There's a huge cost to never getting in cars, or to never leaving your house.

The question is - what is the cost to not getting married? If you don't want kids, I see none at all.

Personally, I'd like to raise children at some point, and I don't see any good alternative to marriage for that. That aside, I see no reason to get married.

Raising children is the ONLY reason I can see getting married. I think we should try to give kids a shot at having a nuclear family, and if you end up separated/divorced, you do your best to still be the best dad you can be. But that's it - you must have a burning desire to be a father. I know some guys have discussed simply knocking a chick up without attempting to marry her, and simply going to court to work out custody. I get where they're coming from, but I think it's better to be under the same roof with your kid in the early years, and truly establishing yourself as a dominant figure in your child's life. You can't influence them the same way if you're not there from the beginning, every day.

Even if you could magically give birth to a child tomorrow, with no woman involved... How would you support yourself and raise the kid at the same time? You'd have to consign the kid to childcare, a far worse fate. If single motherhood is bad, I can't imagine a daycare baby being any better.

Post: #13

(09-05-2012 03:10 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 03:04 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 02:57 PM)basilransom Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 02:46 PM)Timoteo Wrote:  What I appreciate is that the posters to Donlak's piece challenged him also. He took a specific topic, marriage, and gave a generic "something bad can happen to you any day you leave the house" answer as to why men should marry. You have to do better than that - you have to lay out what you think the benefits are. Saying "real alphas don't fear marriage" doesn't really provide a solid argument for his position.

The problem isn't risk. It's risk without any payoff. There's a huge cost to never getting in cars, or to never leaving your house.

The question is - what is the cost to not getting married? If you don't want kids, I see none at all.

Personally, I'd like to raise children at some point, and I don't see any good alternative to marriage for that. That aside, I see no reason to get married.

Raising children is the ONLY reason I can see getting married. I think we should try to give kids a shot at having a nuclear family, and if you end up separated/divorced, you do your best to still be the best dad you can be. But that's it - you must have a burning desire to be a father. I know some guys have discussed simply knocking a chick up without attempting to marry her, and simply going to court to work out custody. I get where they're coming from, but I think it's better to be under the same roof with your kid in the early years, and truly establishing yourself as a dominant figure in your child's life. You can't influence them the same way if you're not there from the beginning, every day.

Even if you could magically give birth to a child tomorrow, with no woman involved... How would you support yourself and raise the kid at the same time? You'd have to consign the kid to childcare, a far worse fate.

No my kid loves her preschool, most of them do and it's way better than them sitting around watching mom on facebook all day. They do and become better kids than the ones who stay home or with grandma.

Back to the get married to have kids thing....

You don't have to. You can live with her without marriage which will give her more leverage when you break up and turn her into a bigger cunt in the meantime..In my case my kids mom had to go in order for me to have a stable household. She was creating tension/drama in the house. She had to go (emech style on her ASS)

Post: #14

What does marriage have to do with raising kids? You can impregnate a woman without a marriage certificate.

Post: #15

(09-05-2012 03:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  What does marriage have to do with raising kids? You can impregnate a woman without a marriage certificate.

Also...assuming supporting the kid isn't an issue...wouldn't an out-of-wedlock child mean the wife is more inclined to treat you well to keep you around and involved besides just financially supportive?

Post: #16

You get married, you have a kid, then you get divorced. Now you have a kid and you're not married. So children need to be born in wedlock, and after that who cares? Makes no sense. The marriage <--> children is one of the hardest bits of social programming to overcome.

Second emech on the daycare and kids. Kids, at least girls, love daycare. Assuming you put them in a good one, which can be pricey, they love it. It's basically one big party and nap time. Hell, I want to go there too sometimes.

Post: #17

Marriage could have been a good thing, if it weren't for those pesky divorce / alimony laws. I for one love being a father and marriage can if practiced well provide that kind of stability that kids need to grow up into well-balanced human beings.

We here used to be kids at some point so perhaps you can relate.

However considering the world as it is and not as what it's supposed to be, I rarely if ever recommend marriage to anyone else and will side with the OP's quoted article here. Unless you really want to be a father and yearn for that 1950's experience it's just not worth it.

Post: #18

Quote:I am a expert at mid 19th Russian history because my fucking wife went to bed early for 10 years.

Amazing rant.

Here is the original link: http://donlak.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/g...mment-3047

Post: #19

(09-05-2012 03:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  What does marriage have to do with raising kids? You can impregnate a woman without a marriage certificate.

Really?

Post: #20

(09-05-2012 03:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  What does marriage have to do with raising kids? You can impregnate a woman without a marriage certificate.

No woman you would want to have kids with would go for that.

Now I know we are all alphas who will game Russian supermodels to join our harem and have our children out of wedlock.

But in the real world no legit girl is going to have babies without marriage.

Post: #21

(09-05-2012 04:38 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 03:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  What does marriage have to do with raising kids? You can impregnate a woman without a marriage certificate.

No woman you would want to have kids with would go for that.

Now I know we are all alphas who will game Russian supermodels to join our harem and have our children out of wedlock.

But in the real world no legit girl is going to have babies without marriage.

Just tell her you're going to and don't. Instead serve her with custody papers. Problem solved.

Post: #22

After banging a married woman, living in Miami for two years and seeing the shit storm of golddigging women, the financial burden marriage causes, reading this article is a breath of fresh air that I'm on the right track.

Post: #23

Honestly, what woman would want to have children with a man unwilling to marry them? She is going to carry a baby to term, potentially risk her life during delivery, need your financial support and protection while she raises the child - and you aren't even willing to marry her because someday she might divorce you and you lose some possessions? She is all in when she gets pregnant. It is only reasonable that she wants the same commitment in return.

Getting married lets her know you are in it together and that you mean it. It is the same statement to society as well (not that I care too much what others think, but she will). Now don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of no fault divorce necessarily, or indefinite alimony, so I can understand certain objections. Our laws need reform. If you really want protection, put your assets into a trust before you get married.

I wonder about this place sometimes. This argument is the same thing as wanting a feminine, demure, attractive girl and bitching about assuming the masculine role and buying her a drink or dinner. This forum loves to bitch about how feminists have changed women, yet balks at assuming traditional males roles like husband or father. In the long run, raising successful children in a loving family will be 100 times more satisfying than just banging sluts in one night stands and ending up old and alone.

If you don't want children then by all means don't get married. I understand that argument.

The stability and tradition of a loving two parent household, however, is important to raise well adjusted children - and that means living together for the long term, and that doesn't mean her divorcing you and taking the children out of your life either. You need to find the right girl.

Here are some stats:

-63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census)
-85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes
-71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes
-70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes
-85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home
-Boys who grow up in father-absent homes are more likely that those in father-present homes to have trouble establishing appropriate sex roles and gender identity.

Why dog on marriage? To raise children a healthy marriage is important. If that's not your thing and never will be, then game on player.

Post: #24

(09-05-2012 04:41 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 04:38 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(09-05-2012 03:38 PM)Samseau Wrote:  What does marriage have to do with raising kids? You can impregnate a woman without a marriage certificate.

No woman you would want to have kids with would go for that.

Now I know we are all alphas who will game Russian supermodels to join our harem and have our children out of wedlock.

But in the real world no legit girl is going to have babies without marriage.

Just tell her you're going to and don't. Instead serve her with custody papers. Problem solved.

1. Plus you can cuckold

2. Plus you can take your average woman (who's only a 6) get her to fall in love and she'll have kids with you. I had two chances earlier this year to impregnate some 6's but I obviously declined. The option was there, however

Post: #25

(09-05-2012 05:31 PM)durangotang Wrote:  Honestly, what woman would want to have children with a man unwilling to marry them? She is going to carry a baby to term, potentially risk her life during delivery, need your financial support and protection while she raises the child - and you aren't even willing to marry her because someday she might divorce you and you lose some possessions? She is all in when she gets pregnant. It is only reasonable that she wants the same commitment in return.

Getting married lets her know you are in it together and that you mean it. It is the same statement to society as well (not that I care too much what others think, but she will). Now don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of no fault divorce necessarily, or indefinite alimony, so I can understand certain objections. Our laws need reform. If you really want protection, put your assets into a trust before you get married.

I wonder about this place sometimes. This argument is the same thing as wanting a feminine, demure, attractive girl and bitching about assuming the masculine role and buying her a drink or dinner. This forum loves to bitch about how feminists have changed women, yet balks at assuming traditional males roles like husband or father. In the long run, raising successful children in a loving family will be 100 times more satisfying than just banging sluts in one night stands and ending up old and alone.

If you don't want children then by all means don't get married. I understand that argument.

The stability and tradition of a loving two parent household, however, is important to raise well adjusted children - and that means living together for the long term, and that doesn't mean her divorcing you and taking the children out of your life either. You need to find the right girl.

Here are some stats:

-63% of youth suicides are from fatherless homes (US Dept. Of Health/Census)
-85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes
-71% of all high school dropouts come from fatherless homes
-70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes
-85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home
-Boys who grow up in father-absent homes are more likely that those in father-present homes to have trouble establishing appropriate sex roles and gender identity.

Why dog on marriage? To raise children a healthy marriage is important. If that's not your thing and never will be, then play on player.

Fatherless means dude took off and has nothing to do with his kids not superdad (me) who makes decisions and cares for his child more than anyone else will. My kid goes to the best little preschool because I say so. The mom would make that call depending on how much it costs. That extra 60 dollars a week could cost her a mani pedi or sushi. You guys are going to have to deprogram and give this more thought. It can be done my way if you have any questions just ask me.

@ SS whats cockhold?