Post: #1

When I was a much younger man, the following passage by Henry James (from a literary essay on Turgenev) was probably my favorite passage in all of literature. I considered it my credo, words to live by. Here it is in full:

Quote:Life is, in fact, a battle. On this point optimists and pessimists agree. Evil is insolent and strong; beauty enchanting but rare; goodness very apt to be weak; folly very apt to be defiant; wickedness to carry the day; imbeciles to be in great places, people of sense in small, and mankind generally, unhappy. But the world as it stands is no illusion, no phantasm, no evil dream of a night; we wake up to it again for ever and ever; we can neither forget it nor deny it nor dispense with it. We can welcome experience as it comes, and give it what it demands, in exchange for something which it is idle to pause to call much or little so long as it contributes to swell the volume of consciousness. In this there is mingled pain and delight, but over the mysterious mixture there hovers a visible rule, that bids us learn to will and seek to understand.

Now as I re-read it, I find a few things that do not hold up so well and ideas I disagree with. Evil is insolent and strong, yes; but to emphasize this is to understate the less obvious, because more diffusely spread, goodness and kindness of ordinary people that is like an atmosphere in which we walk and which we take for granted; goodness is only "weak" in the way that the air we breathe is odorless. To call beauty rare is a vulgarity; beauty is, indeed, quite common, it is everywhere if you know how to look. People in great places are, in fact, very rarely imbeciles, they are canny and shrewd; to believe otherwise is a shortcoming of a brilliant but literary young mind. And mankind generally is neither pointedly happy nor unhappy, it goes about its business and it does more than well enough for the most part.

But the words I bolded in the passage above -- those remain as true and as sublime as ever. Yes, the world, reality, life as it is, is "no illusion, no phantasm, no evil dream of a night"; yes, "we can neither forget it nor deny it nor dispense with it", and yes, to welcome experience as it comes and give it what it demands is what we can do, and what we should do -- not because it is a moral duty but because it is the way to live a good, interesting and enjoyable life. Reality, the world as it is, is the font -- the font of all interest, beauty, and knowledge; there is no greater depth and no more meet nourishment for the mind and heart than the profound comedy of everyday life, as it really is; and if we turn away from it, if we come to believe that the thinness of mere ideas can replace the experience of life as it actually is, then the well of our spirit dries up and we lose the world. And spiritually, that is the most terrible and regrettable fate that can befall a man. It is truly a death in life.

************************

This passage and these thoughts came to my mind as I was reading a recent post by Roosh called City Life Is A Simulation. In it, Roosh talks about a documentary on the life of villagers in remote Siberia who lack all means of modern technology; he is moved to conceive of their existence as a kind of rural fantasia, a life in which man is at one with nature and which is therefore a genuine, and meaningful, life; compared to this, he feels that the life of the city with all its modern conveniences is a mere simulacrum, indeed possibly a "simulation". In any case it is something empty, hollow and artificial, removed from the rhythms of nature. I was especially struck by this paragraph in which Roosh lauds the "authentic" masculinity of the villagers and their manual labor, and dismisses the "make believe" masculinity of merely going to a city gym:

Quote:I must ask myself if I want to continue living a simulated life in which I’m surrounded by comfort, concrete, and electronic screens, or live one closer to nature, where occasionally I must pick up an ax and strike it at a log to ensure I won’t freeze in the night, instead of merely simulating this strike by entering an air conditioned gym with top 40 music playing in the background.

This passage, and the post as a whole, saddened me; and it made me want to say something like this to Roosh, a man I admire and respect -- and to the many other men who, no doubt, feel much like him:

Roosh, and other dudes: look around you. You are privileged to be in an indescribably beautiful, indeed mystical place: a perfectly air conditioned city gym with top 40 music playing in the background. I'm not even going to lecture you about gratitude; I'm not even going to bore you with a long discourse (all of which would be true) about how centuries of work, of thought, of human (male) ingenuity have gone into making every single apparatus you see arrayed before you, how physicists had to invent the beautiful ideas of thermodynamics and engineers had to slave to put those ideas to use to design devices that maintain the ideal temperature for human beings to live and thrive in; how the cloying confectionary strains of "top 40 music" were optimized by canny and skillful operators over time to achieve a kind of sublime banality. I'll even spare you the harangue about the amazing, and constantly improving, materials that went into making your Under Armour tanktop a kind of weaponized weightlifting uniform. Relax -- you've been spared all this.

But look around you. Do you see the mixed raced hottie with her ass in yoga pants bending over, stretching, and seating herself on a pussy machine so that her pussy can get just a little tighter? Do you see the Misc-reading IRT perform his deadlifts with inspiringly terrible form, essentially trying to wreck his delicate subcontinental frame in his terrible quest for muscle; do you see the fag and his mincing bicep curls; do you see the gutted out contractor who looks 60 if he's a day actually squat 225 to the absolute paused bottom for 15 brutal reps? DON'T you see all these things? Don't you see the insane, endless, magical variety of life around you -- life that, as Henry James said, is no illusion, no phantasm, no evil dream of a night. Life that is as real and as authentic as any ax wielded by any fool in Siberia or elsewhere -- indeed, more glorious, more interesting, more various than any of these villagers could ever conceive of. Don't you see it?

Look around you. Technological advancement, the progress won by centuries and centuries of men's toil and creativity, has not made life less "real", less "genuine", less meaningful -- it has added to the beauty, to the variety, to the comedy of what we are privileged to experience at all times. An air conditioned gym is every bit as much a part of "nature" as any stretch of Siberian tundra; it is nature transformed and enlivened by the most singular and superb of nature's creations, the human being. Don't let mere ideas, in their heated thinness, cause you to lose the world. Welcome experience as it comes, and give it what it demands; don't be so absorbed in your thought -- so often futile and devoid of reality -- that the very ground on which you walk becomes abstracted and unreal, that you fail to see the hottie in yoga pants, and also the ill-fated IRT, the fag, and the contractor. Don't lose the world -- it is as worth living in and attending to as it ever was; more so if you ask me. Give life as it is a chance, in all humility; and it will reward you a thousandfold.

Post: #2

Words of wisdom. Accept the world as it is, shake your head and laugh at its absurdities. Realise that you are part of the comedy as well.

Post: #3

And remember that this is water (pdf).

Post: #4

Agree with the OP. I'll add:

Just as some of us on the forum go through all five stages of grief with regards to the true nature of women (denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance), I think it's also important that one goes through all five stages with regards to the true nature of society.

In both cases, it does no good to stay in the anger stage.

Post: #5

It's really great to have you back.

Post: #6

Post: #7

Quote: Do you see the mixed raced hottie with her ass in yoga pants bending over, stretching, and seating herself on a pussy machine so that her pussy can get just a little tighter? Do you see the Misc-reading IRT perform his deadlifts with inspiringly terrible form, essentially trying to wreck his delicate subcontinental frame in his terrible quest for muscle; do you see the fag and his mincing bicep curls; do you see the gutted out contractor who looks 60 if he's a day actually squat 225 to the absolute paused bottom for 15 brutal reps? DON'T you see all these things? Don't you see the insane, endless, magical variety of life around you -- life that, as Henry James said, is no illusion, no phantasm, no evil dream of a night. Life that is as real and as authentic as any ax wielded by any fool in Siberia or elsewhere -- indeed, more glorious, more interesting, more various than any of these villagers could ever conceive of. Don't you see it?

I see it, but I don't care for it. You are appealing to my feelings of novelty and need for entertainment, both of which contribute practically nothing to a man who is already self actualized (or close to it), and which merely distract him away from his purpose. They are dead-end needs and lead to emptiness.

I have just as much gratitute as anyone else who is in my position of comfort and modern living, but my digestion is beginning to reject it, and I'll soon want to see how I can get back to a simpler but harder life that I saw in the documentary.

Quote:Technological advancement, the progress won by centuries and centuries of men's toil and creativity, has not made life less "real", less "genuine", less meaningful -- it has added to the beauty, to the variety, to the comedy of what we are privileged to experience at all times. An air conditioned gym is every bit as much a part of "nature" as any stretch of Siberian tundra; it is nature transformed and enlivened by the most singular and superb of nature's creations, the human being.

Nice writing, but I firmly disagree with the sentiment, especially since it can be applied by anyone to explain away the evil that have been made by humans. Do you not see how this is relativistic? "Nuclear bombs were made by humans which were made by nature, so therefore they have added to our beauty."

Your overall argument is something like "appreciate what you have and see," which is a fine statement to help men get through environments they don't feel at one with, but to push faggots, gyms, and yoga pants upon all mankind and to have them feel more enlightened or satisfied as a result is not convincing.

Post: #8

I think a lot of people today conflate the standard of living with the quality of life.

These are necessarily not the same.

While most appreciate modern conveniences as they make our lives easier, they don't necessarily makes as happier inside. Analogically, if that were the case, you would never see unhappy rich people, or billionaires who commit suicide. But that's not true as all people are subject to same human firmware as everyone else.

But I don't think the idea of rejecting modernity outright and going back in time is perfect formula either. From what I saw in people who live or lived like that is that they regretted it, or wished to have more of what they didn't have.

Ultimatelly, a man (male) is never truly happy, or truly content because once he achieves what he sets out to do, he longs for something else. That is part of his biological make up, to never be satisfied, to always strive for something different. To move about. And moving about is what propels our species forward.

I think the best solution for us is to find some balance between the two ends. To be spiritual hedonists. To keep real and grounded, but enjoy life to the fullest. Otherwise, you will always be leaving something on the table, and that itself will bring new source of discontent.

Post: #9

Solid post.

The ideal motto of the 21st century : 'Live and let live'.

Post: #10

While I understand Roosh's point, I'm much more in agreement with The Lizard of Oz.

Condensing my argument into a sentence, "That so many fags exist must mean that people have unprecedented freedom to develop themselves as they see fit. Such freedom, although often used to become shallow and mediocre, is necessary for great individuals to achieve a level of greatness that is impossible in much less free societies."

----------------

Everyone wants four things: love, admiration, respect, and success. And there are two (broadly speaking) types of societies: Party Societies and War Societies.

Mankind is far more used to living in War Societies, so they tend to overhype the benefits of war and downplay the benefits of parties - but the biggest benefit of living in a Party Society is the ability to invent and reinvent yourself. Roosh went from being a bored microbiologist to a well-known lecturer on female sexuality, and a leader of men. How? With effort, time, and (easily overlooked, but just as important) the lack of hardcore social pressure to find a role, stick to it, and suppress his frustration stemming from the nagging uncertainty that he is being prevented from acquiring a better role.

In a war society, you marry the first woman you have sex with - because What Would The Neighbors Think and no one wants to be branded a failure. In a war society, you very quickly find the only job you'll ever have for life - because if you don't, You Might Be Gay or Might Be A Loser. In a war society, you have children far before you're mature enough to raise them - because No One Wants To Have Idle Hands. And in a war society, your job is who you are, and your family is who you are, and your wife is who you are - and don't go reinventing yourself because What Would The Neighbors Think and No One Likes Dishonesty.

In a Party Society, the only thing that matters is whether you Know How To Party. Can you bring a lot of diverse people together and show them how to have a good time? Is your optimism infectious? Does your smile evoke images of a Man At Peace With Himself? Can you put aside whatever negative emotions you've felt up to that moment and give a genuine compliment about everyone you see?

And, yes, in a Party Society you can be a wonderful husband and lover for seventeen years, but you'll be discarded once you've been bitter for a month straight. (But most people don't see the reverse, as illustrated in CleanSlate's Thread here that in a Party Society you can transform years of bitterness into seemingly instant joy, provided you're actually happy and seeking it out!)

So in a War Society, your love relationships are more permanent - but arguably less lovely and loving. (How much love can there be when one, or both, people are actively suppressing their frustrations because they cannot choose to leave?) While in a Party Society, your love relationships are far less permanent - but any love you receive is much more genuine.

So, too, in a War Society, are the respect, admiration, and success you receive more permanent. But War is so impersonal and uncaring that any of these feel empty. "Sergeant Roosh!", said Captain Asshole Who Only Got This Job Because of Nepotism and Backstabbing, "The way you single-handedly killed forty-five of the enemy while being wounded in both knees, one shoulder, and on elbow displays bravery and courage far beyond that of an ordinary man. Take this medal as a token of our gratitude - (just don't ask us to actually care about you, as in looking after your future given that you can't walk anymore)!"

Epilogue: My argument comes from someone who is very late to this party, and cannot shake the sense that the party is rapidly ending. Most people would say that this ending is inevitable, but is isn't. And the majority of people who think they'll be happier and successful after the party ends are fucking delusional.

Post: #11

No offense, but that wall of text just comes across as what Tuthmosis called "humble-brag" bullshit.

Yes, it is important to live your life as well as you can and to not let feelings of negativity overwhelm you. You are but one man in the world. But the true measure of a man is not his surrender to hedonistic desires (which this comes close to doing) and overlooking problems in the world, but in taking charge and leading his civilization through them.

(09-21-2015 07:59 AM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  Solid post.

The ideal motto of the 21st century : 'Live and let live'.

I used to think that way too, but this, when push comes to shove, is ultimately a weak, vacillating, and decidedly unmasculine way of viewing the world. It works fine and is necessary to an extent, but beyond a certain threshold it becomes weakness, and that threshold was crossed long ago.

Edit: I'm not sure the dichotomy between a "war" and "party" society is entirely perfect. I think we're in a society that is in transition from wild overindulgence that has led to the problems we describe. The party has had too many drinks. I guess the question going forward is how to keep some positive benefits of the "party" society while moving away from overindulgence.

Post: #12

It's like watching a celebrity ping pong tournament go back and forth, and I don't usually care much for ping pong or celebrities.

Post: #13

(09-21-2015 08:38 AM)Libertas Wrote:  Edit: I'm not sure the dichotomy between a "war" and "party" society is entirely perfect. I think we're in a society that is in transition from wild overindulgence that has led to the problems we describe. The party has had too many drinks. I guess the question going forward is how to keep some positive benefits of the "party" society while moving away from overindulgence.

Me, neither. I just think it's interesting.

I know that so many social problems are caused by providing money to people who don't provide value back to their civilization and society. But I also know that, for the majority of human history, there have been a very few people who get to Party, while everyone else is fighting Wars on their behalf.

I much prefer a society where everyone is invited to a Party, than a society where you cannot make it to the Party - no matter what you do, or who you are, because of "tradition" and social cohesion.

This, from 1995 to 2015, may have been the best society that the world has ever known. And look how so few people were happy?

Sad.

And as society gets worse, we're telling ourselves that we'll be happier and stronger when the collapse comes. But I insist that, though we'll be stronger, we'll probably be less happy.

Post: #14

I recently trekked 48 kilometers through the Sierra Nevadas and saw the "lost city" in Colombia.

There was about 30 people in total in my group at the staging area but I was the only one that my particular company had so I had a guide who was dedicated just to me.

He was hungover and introduced to me as "The drunken mule" in the office (where I met this very young girl who was waiting to see about helping out the office, I got her number while these guys were grab assing around and no one noticed).

When we got to the starting point I was annoyed with all the dickheads that were there. Hipsters, fat bitches, hippie bitches, some fat dudes with barb wire tattoos on their arms. Pretty much the users of LofO's gym.

They were there to partake in this "like super hard hike".

The first stopping point was a natural pool formed by the river that runs down the mountain at it's base.

I was aggravated by how these people were laughing and frolicking around.

I resented them as they took their selfies and fucked around without a care in the world.

I looked at my guide and in my (then) bad Spanish asked if we had to wait for everyone.

He said no.

I said, "Can we go"?

He asked me why.

I said "I don't like them".

He said he understood and "vamos".

From that point on we busted our asses pushing through from checkpoint to checkpoint. I was in running shoes and a pair of shorts with a small bag.

It reminded me of my days as a soldier.

I struggled like hell to keep up with him those first two days.

I had forgotten that it was possible to go downhill while climbing UP a mountain and vice versa.

There was something in me that wanted to not just beat the times of the other people on the trip, I wanted to be as far away from them as possible.

There were long stretches when we were moving so fast I couldn't look up around me because it was that important to make sure I stepped in the right place.

The checkpoints usually included natural pools like the first one that were gorgeous and I would have them to myself for an hour or sometimes hours before the stragglers came in and that made me happy.

They sensed I didn't like them, and I wanted them to sense it.

A few struck up conversation and in contrast I was very friendly.

One guy asked me if I was training for something. "No, I just like to go hard".

He told me "I feel sorry for you".

(I've heard that before).

When I finally arrived to the lost city there was no one there. It was my guide and I.

The construction of this must have been brutal. Carrying all these stones up the side of a mountain to the top.

Just the construction of the 2100 stairs to enter must have taken God knows how long.

It was a satisfying feeling beating all these pussies, without all the cool gear and cute outfits. I was in some old fighting board shorts and worn out running shoes. I had scratches and bug bites and dirt and sweat all over me.

On the way back I passed my guide and left him in the dust but this time I had another guy from England and one of those hippie bitches trying to keep up with me.

I only beat them by about 20-30 minutes at each checkpoint.

Towards the end the girl told me "This is way better"! referring to going hard.

I said "I know".

We beat the rest of the party by several hours.

It was rewarding and I was content as along the way I had many revelations about my life that I otherwise don't think I would have had if I weren't in that environment.

I don't think I would have had that if the only thing I ever saw was the inside of an air conditioned gym or even one with only open bay doors.

Being in the wilderness does something to you.

Post: #15

What's so utterly fantastic about this post is that when I was reading Roosh's blog post, the absolute FIRST thing I thought of was, "I wonder what Lizard of Oz would say about this." And so it is.

Lizard, what you wrote is as poignant and beautiful as ever, and the essence of it is very Buddhist in nature. That life as we know it is perfect in all of its flaws and glory. Perfection lies in the moment, the here and now, and perfection is a result of saying a cosmic "Yes" to each moment.

However, we can also look at Roosh's blog post through a Buddhist lens to make sense of it. The essence of Roosh's post, the main theme, is Dissatisfaction. Roosh has clearly had his fill of the world of sensory stimulus, and longs for a world of substance. Buddhism teaches us to reject attachments to earthly and empty pursuits; the sounds, sights, tastes (Top 40, porn, fine dining) A man, given a taste of meditation and spiritual communion, will not be satisfied with the pursuits he enjoyed in his younger days. They will seem hollow and meaningless in retrospect.

The real essence and appeal of manual labor, such as hunting, chopping wood, building a fire, is not their base representation of masculinity. They are activities that are essential to human survival. You cannot say the same thing about withdrawing money from an ATM. Those things that are essential to human survival are meditative in nature. It's no coincidence that many meditations are focused around breathing, as breathing is essential to human life and the most basic function we utilize. By simply sitting and breathing, and saying in one's head, "I am inhaling...I am exhaling...I am inhaling...I am exhaling" you can have a very profound meditation. Why is this? Because this is a moment to be truly present and not let your mind be distracted by a 100 other pursuits. It is a time to relinquish the ego and embrace human-ness. So it is with those other manual activities, which are also meditative in nature. Anyone that has chopped wood or built a fire can attest to this. Does anyone else get transfixed by fire, especially when you're camping or out in the wildnerness? I can stare for hours. To me there is something instinctual, some call of the wild, by looking into a fire and knowing this is what set us apart, this is what it means to be human.

Another way of putting it: A potter is sitting in a room with his wheel. "He" is not the potter and "he" is not making the pot. The pot is being made and "he" is simply observing. This is Zen Buddhism.

It's difficult to explain this to someone who hasn't experienced it. "To he who is experienced, no explanation is needed. To he who is not experienced, no explanation is possible." This can all sound like a bunch of new-age hokey bullshit.

What I get from Roosh's blog post is dissatisfaction, pure and simple. Dissatisfaction is one of the most powerful emotions and impulses a man will experience, as it leads him to new avenues and new fulfilling paths in life. The point of life is not to admire the intricate world around us, with its shiny distractions. Men are naturally dissatisfied; this leads us to create. It's important for men to embrace their dissatisfaction and listen to it, do not suppress it or appease it with false pursuits. Dissatisfaction is inextricably linked to two other strong emotions: Fear, and Laziness.

Dissatisfaction leads you up to a point where you are forced to make some difficult decisions, decisions that will be met by both Fear and Laziness. Will you be able to overcome those impulses and change your life? Isn't that how we all got to where we are today?

Post: #16

To the OP, What is this pussy machine you speak of at the gym that will tighten a woman's pussy?

All women should be using this slice of heaven.

Post: #17

(09-21-2015 12:37 PM)eradicator Wrote:  To the OP, What is this pussy machine you speak of at the gym that will tighten a woman's pussy?

Nothing can tighten it as much as carousel can widen it.

Post: #18

There is a lot of room for philosophizing here.

Lizard makes a valid point in some respects, but overlooks another deep truth, I think. Let me explain.

His point comes down to this: "life is a variety of experiences, air-conditioned gyms and yoga pants, urban and rural, good and bad, and all them are equally real."

OK, I get it. But you're missing a key point. A true mystical point.

See, Lizard, where you go wrong is in forgetting this:

Life, and this world, in many ways IS an illusion. It is a dream.

The world is what you say it is. It is what I say it is. Behind it all is the unknown.

The world is my idea., as Schopenhauer says in the first line of his book. The Sufis would have agreed with him.

You create your own world, your own life, your own perceptions. If you think something is good, you seek the good.

If you think something is bad, you avoid that.

I see the point you're trying to make, but it could very easily be misconstrued by those who wish to have us just "shut up" and accept the obvious evils we see around us.

This I cannot do.

I am under no obligation to immerse myself in an environment that is toxic to my nature.

.

Post: #19

(09-21-2015 07:59 AM)DjembaDjemba Wrote:  Solid post.

The ideal motto of the 21st century : 'Live and let live'.

I always hated that quote. What it really means in a modern context is "ignore the harms being done to you and go back to sleep."

Post: #20

(09-21-2015 07:05 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:Technological advancement, the progress won by centuries and centuries of men's toil and creativity, has not made life less "real", less "genuine", less meaningful -- it has added to the beauty, to the variety, to the comedy of what we are privileged to experience at all times. An air conditioned gym is every bit as much a part of "nature" as any stretch of Siberian tundra; it is nature transformed and enlivened by the most singular and superb of nature's creations, the human being.

Nice writing, but I firmly disagree with the sentiment, especially since it can be applied by anyone to explain away the evil that have been made by humans. Do you not see how this is relativistic? "Nuclear bombs were made by humans which were made by nature, so therefore they have added to our beauty."

Your overall argument is something like "appreciate what you have and see," which is a fine statement to help men get through environments they don't feel at one with, but to push faggots, gyms, and yoga pants upon all mankind and to have them feel more enlightened or satisfied as a result is not convincing.

It seems to me that Roosh's article marked a turning point in his thinking. He is moving from a Libertine mindset in the direction of the more prescriptive philosophy of Neomasculinity.

There is a live and let live ethic to the Libertine, not to mention to the Libertarian, a philosophy that as long as I am allowed to do what I want to do, I will allow you to do what you want to do, and it will all work out.

My interpretation of the original post is that in order to truly appreciate this life, you have to find a way, in your mind, to accept, and see the good, in the world exactly as it is. You are changing your mind to comform it to the world.

And while in certain circumstances, this is a good and necessary approach, because you can't change everything to your liking, in general, as an overarching philosophy, it has a very strong element of defeatism to it.

What I have picked up from Roosh's recent writings, and even just from what I have observed in my own life, is that to passively find a way to accept things exactly as they are is not a static process, once and done.

No, if you accept homosexuality as normal, soon you will have to accept gay marriage as normal, and then you will actively celebrate gayness, and then, along comes trans-everything, totally out of the blue, with everyone acting as if it has always been that way.

Being a great acceptor of life, a Libertine, a live and let live Libertarian, doesn't work in the long run because we are not all separate particles passing near to each other without colliding.

No, we have an effect on one another, and the ascendance of selfie-awkward-trigger warning culture in the West and then spreading like wildfire everywhere is real, and if you don't push back, soon you will have no room even to put your elbow down on an armrest.

I remember the first time I heard the term "politically correct." It was 1982, and came out of nowhere. I was signing a check, and my roommate looked over my shoulder and said, "Bank of America, that is not a politically correct bank because of where they hold their investments."

The phrase seemed clunky, and even presumptuous, because who was he to decide what is or isn't politically correct? I let it go though because he actually had some good points to make about banks and where they put their money.

How was I supposed to know such an obscure phrase by an insignificant undergraduate in a moldy apartment building in 1982 was going to end up being a dominant ideology in 2015? If I had I would have jumped all over him about that phrase. It would have been like going back in time to kill Hitler before he could get started.

There was no way to know though, at the time, where it was headed. The point here is that people, their mentalities and their habits affect us more than we know, and if we don't push back, they will take over more and more until they are like a cat that has taken over the bed because you are worried about crushing his little paws.


A lot of men today are looking at the world and not liking what they see, and wanting to change it, and this impulse does not come from a lack of gratitude or an inability to appreciate the wonder and beauty of it all. It come from a deep intuition that there is something fundamentally wrong, and a righteous anger and indignation how we have squandered all the gifts we have been given.

There are many people out there who have a similar intuition, that the world has lost its direction and authenticity, and are trying to figure out what to do about it.

Maybe that is not the loss of a sense of wonder and appreciation. Maybe it is the underpinnings of maturity.

Post: #21

I very much like Veloce's post and will piggyback on it as much as possible. I'll warn you that this post begins obscurely and (hopefully!) culminates in something interesting about Security and speculation about Roosh.

For those who don't know me, I'm going to be 40 soon. And I wasted a lot of my life (teens, twenties, and most of my thirties) in an anti-social, bitter mindframe. The changes I need to make are harder than I imagined, but I am not giving up, nor am I depressed. I am determined, not ashamed, not angry, not at all jealous of you because you have more, and also Not Nearly There Yet.

Yesterday, what began as a meeting between three individuals in NYC turned into a spontaneous party when two strangers invited us to their lovely Manhattan apartment. The owner is quite well off and married to his Not First Wife, and both of them are in their forties.

I would frequently cross my arms in a very pretentious way, and people made various comments throughout. The owner seemed really bothered by it, and my two friends even more so. But the wife knew how to laugh it off and negotiate. (Rather than demanding, like everyone else did, that I stop crossing my arms, she would say, "You know if we give you a drink, you'll not have to cross your arms like that." I smiled back, "That would probably work.")

This culminated in a long argument this morning between myself and my two friends that we're all still processing.

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I know for a fact that if I tried to pull any of that arm-crossing shit on your guys, you would notice and play along. Some of you would sneakily hide behind me and cross your arms with an even more ridiculous look on your face than I had, and I'd notice, we'd laugh, and leave it at that. Others would genuinely ask, "What the hell?", and I'd answer, "Yes, it's pretentious to cross my arms this way, but have you heard the owner of this house drone on about his possessions?" (In real life, polar, helped me a lot by discussing this. Thank you.)

But you wouldn't be nervous, nor triggered, nor offended, nor deeply concerned for everyone else's feelings. You'd be so Secure in yourselves that you'd naturally ignore (or, at bare minimum, not take seriously) the insecurities of others.

Can you imagine what it's like to have all of that wealth and yet be so genuinely bothered by the body language of an insignificant person who is only playing with you? If you can, you're imaginatively removing the Security you currently possess, and momentarily looking at the world through the eyes of a frighteningly insecure man. And without this Security, you'd feel Rage expressed in a desire to control and/or diminish Anyone Who Has Accomplished Less Than You. Your motto would be, "I have high standards for myself, and you don't meet them. So I no longer want to interact with you."

Our Security as men expresses itself in absolute freedom of Self-Determination and the Eternal Belief in Self-Improvement. Our motto is, "Every person, no matter how much of a shithole his life has ever been, can - through his own efforts - make his life far better and happier." We are eternally optimistic about ourselves, and eternally dedicated to self-work - so, while we acknowledge this shittiness of other peoples' lives, we don't write them off as eternally broken. Nor do we revel in their current state of inferiority compared to us. We accept that they're in an inferior state, but not that they're eternally trapped in that state. Our Security allows us to treat others far better than any Insecure Individual will ever treat us.

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I think Roosh is correct that the simulated life in NYC makes people hollow and disconnected from others. But I wonder what kind of frustration he feels.

If he's frustrated that he-himself hasn't accomplished enough, I would say: (1) You've accomplished way more than (almost!) any man I've ever known. (2) Your accomplishments are far more loving than those of almost any man I've ever known.

If he's frustrated that more and more people haven't used his accomplishments to accomplish something amazing instead, I would say: (1) Everyone's free to be wrong. (2) Everyone's free to grow at their own pace, and in their own style. (3) Your frustration with others doesn't increase their motivation to grow; it almost always decreases it.

If he's frustrated for another reason, I hope he spells out that reason.

Post: #22

(09-21-2015 01:19 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  OK, I get it. But you're missing a key point. A true mystical point.

See, Lizard, where you go wrong is in forgetting this:

Life, and this world, in many ways IS an illusion. It is a dream.

The world is what you say it is. It is what I say it is. Behind it all is the unknown.

The world is my idea., as Schopenhauer says in the first line of his book. The Sufis would have agreed with him.

You create your own world, your own life, your own perceptions. If you think something is good, you seek the good.

If you think something is bad, you avoid that.

I see the point you're trying to make, but it could very easily be misconstrued by those who wish to have us just "shut up" and accept the obvious evils we see around us.

This I cannot do.

I am under no obligation to immerse myself in an environment that is toxic to my nature.

I agree with you here and am giving my own response, wondering whether The Lizard of Oz will agree with me.

First, I think TLOZ's post means, "If you find yourself in such a toxic environment, don't act this way, nor think this way." Where "the way" represents the rage-driven assumption that Your Way is the Best Way, to the point where anyone who behaves in a non-predictable way is automatically dismissed as Broken, Fucked Up, or Permanently Bad. (As opposed to, for example, "different", "currently bad", or "moderately confusing".)

Second, the way you, Quintus Curtius, exited this toxic environment - (methodical, consistent, business-like, angry-at-times, ultra-sad-at-times, but NEVER with rage-driven entitlement, nor slander, nor celebration at an ordinary person's failure), could be misconstrued as rage-driven entitlement. But I hope you know that it is was never like that.

Third, the reason you should never have that rage-driven entitlement is NOT because I'll troll the shit out of you until you reveal it to everyone. It's because this emotion does, indeed, make you miss the world. It prevents you from looking at the shittiest person and saying, "He made his choice. I'm glad I didn't make those choices. Yes, he deserves what he has. No, I'm not going to celebrate his failure - not even internally where no one can see." It also prevents you from looking at a shitty job and saying, "Although this job is shitty to me, it has some good points. I hope the person who has it is happy, or will be happy soon through his own efforts."

So it's not about ignoring injustices, but about minor annoyances - or even major annoyances that are not, despite their annoyance, unjust.

Post: #23

[quoteYesterday, what began as a meeting between three individuals in NYC turned into a spontaneous party when two strangers invited us to their lovely Manhattan apartment. The owner is quite well off and married to his Not First Wife, and both of them are in their forties.[/quote]

Why was I not called?

Post: #24

(09-21-2015 02:03 PM)Libertas Wrote:  Why was I not called?

I'll call you next time. Except for one guy, everyone was 40 or older. So I don't know whether you'd have had a wonderful time, but I would've been glad to see you there.

Post: #25

Some of us focus intensely on hobbies or other pursuits to try to ease the ennui we experience. Or we try to fill the void with vices. We can't put our finger on what exactly the problem is and while we search for the answer we focus on distractions to try to lessen that discomforting feeling. Yet no matter what distractions we choose to indulge it always comes back to that core problem and existential questions:

Who am I? Where and who do I come from? What is my purpose? Who are my people?

Men essentially evolved to compete, hunt, and conquer both other tribes and wilderness. Competition still exists, but it's mainly in banal forms with low stakes. The high stakes stuff is primarily financial and inaccessible to most people. Hunting is no longer a necessary struggle that makes us feel alive, but a recreational sport. As far as conquering other tribes, in the modern West we're told that we're not allowed to do that unless we do it in the service of powers that ultimately hate us for people who despise us and want to destroy our way of life. Furthermore, we're told we should be accepting of hostile tribes and even let them live amongst us. We're punished if we speak out against them or violate the master's will. Even when we're allowed to conquer them we're not allowed to keep spoils for ourselves. There really isn't any frontier left in America to conquer, either. For a good part of four centuries masculine energy was directed toward destroying and creating, taming the lands out west and conquering the people there if necessary. Unruly young men unhappy with living a subdued existence were told to go west. Now there is nothing for them but porn and video games to keep them satiated while an empire of lies continues to grow around them and tries to reinforce their continued servility at all costs.

Enjoying the IRT's foolishness or the girl with a hot ass are essentially distractions. It's good to have them from time to time to preserve your sanity, but it doesn't mean that they're inherently good or that we should live a life where enjoying these things is our highest priority. Furthermore, technology is always a double-edged sword. With all the advances comes increasingly degenerate distractions the likes of which would probably cause our ancestors to riot with pitchforks and torches, put people to death, and burn everything down. Not to mention the potentially dysgenic effects of modern medicine and the overpopulation it's causing in places that have high birth rates to make up for high mortality rates. We're starting to see the fruits of that in millions of men who feel driven to conquer flooding into our ancestral European homelands.

I feel like OP's message is essentially "lighten up and enjoy life." Sure, enjoy the aspects that are enjoyable. God knows there are plenty of things I like about modern society that I do find enriching and entertaining even though I could ultimately do without them, but don't ignore the problems around you that threaten the existence of yourself and your people. Men are the ones who must take responsibility for the hard things that have to be done. We can't be careless in that regard, otherwise everything will fall apart.

All this kind of reminds me of the exchange between Don Corleone and Michael in the Godfather.

Quote:Don Corleone: I hope you don't mind the way I keep going over this Barzini business.

Michael: No, not at all.

Don Corleone: It's an old habit. I spent my whole life trying not to be careless. Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men.