Post: #1

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this. I have currently overstayed in Ukraine for 2 months.

What if I continue on here and overstay for say a year?

What's the worse they can do to me? My friend who overstayed 2 months just left and was given a usd $250 fine and 3 month ban. Not so bad.

My fear is overstaying more than 183 days and then being technically resident for tax purposes and that, then, tax on all the income I have earned in those 183 days will suddenly be due (I suspect the migration dept. would be aware of this).

Post: #2

Throw you in jail for being an illegal immigrant I'd guess.

Post: #3

Whether you overstay 2 months, or 2 years I think the fine will be the same. I heard you can go to an office in Kiev to pay in advance to save yourself the grief when you leave.

I was once held at the border and the guy showed me the three year ban rubber stamp, i'm not sure in which circumstances they would use it, but he had already used on a handful of passports on his desk

Post: #4

I stayed in Kiev for a little over 7 months. All I had to do was go through a pretty pleasant process at immigration before leaving and pay a small fine.

Post: #5

(12-12-2018 12:22 PM)Not-a-libtard Wrote:  Whether you overstay 2 months, or 2 years I think the fine will be the same. I heard you can go to an office in Kiev to pay in advance to save yourself the grief when you leave.

I was once held at the border and the guy showed me the three year ban rubber stamp, i'm not sure in which circumstances they would use it, but he had already used on a handful of passports on his desk

Was this at a physical border or the airport? Make a difference?

Have you / anyone you know overstayed more than a year? In my mind it's a bit cheeky and I can see it having ramifications.

Post: #6

(12-12-2018 11:54 AM)Feyoder Wrote:  My fear is overstaying more than 183 days and then being technically resident for tax purposes and that, then, tax on all the income I have earned in those 183 days will suddenly be due (I suspect the migration dept. would be aware of this).

This is very likely not an issue (source):

Quote:In case it is not possible to determine the centre of vital interests, or the individual does not have a permanent place of residence in any country, the individual is qualified as a tax resident in Ukraine if he/she is present in Ukraine for a period (periods) exceeding 183 days during a calendar year.

In my case (and probably everyone else's visiting ukraine) the centre of vital interests will be outside the country.

Also from the source: non-residents are only taxed on ukraine sourced income.

Post: #7

(12-12-2018 03:01 PM)Feyoder Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 11:54 AM)Feyoder Wrote:  My fear is overstaying more than 183 days and then being technically resident for tax purposes and that, then, tax on all the income I have earned in those 183 days will suddenly be due (I suspect the migration dept. would be aware of this).

This is very likely not an issue (source):

Quote:In case it is not possible to determine the centre of vital interests, or the individual does not have a permanent place of residence in any country, the individual is qualified as a tax resident in Ukraine if he/she is present in Ukraine for a period (periods) exceeding 183 days during a calendar year.

In my case (and probably everyone else's visiting ukraine) the centre of vital interests will be outside the country.

Also from the source: non-residents are only taxed on ukraine sourced income.

The burden is on their tax office, which is a whole different department than immigration, to prove you're a rockstar (in terms of income) and not a guy who was begging / tutoring English or living off savings. In most cases if you look like a poor backpacker then they're going to assume you are a poor backpacker.

Never mind in terms of taxes they have to wait until the next tax year (Spring 2019). If you're never going back to Ukraine then you have little to worry about. No one is going to extradite a foreigner to Ukraine over a $1,000 - $5,000 tax bill. And if you do go back then it's probably just some penalty between 25% - 50% of the unpaid amount as per most places.

Post: #8

(12-12-2018 01:47 PM)Feyoder Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 12:22 PM)Not-a-libtard Wrote:  Whether you overstay 2 months, or 2 years I think the fine will be the same. I heard you can go to an office in Kiev to pay in advance to save yourself the grief when you leave.

I was once held at the border and the guy showed me the three year ban rubber stamp, i'm not sure in which circumstances they would use it, but he had already used on a handful of passports on his desk

Was this at a physical border or the airport? Make a difference?

Have you / anyone you know overstayed more than a year? In my mind it's a bit cheeky and I can see it having ramifications.

Borypsil

But choice of border makes no difference these days.

A year? I know people who have spent 10-20 years here without leaving!

Post: #9

(12-13-2018 10:45 AM)Hydrae Cube Wrote:  A year? I know people who have spent 10-20 years here without leaving!

Wow, all overstays? How'd they deal with stops by the police (pay a "fine")? Also, at that point, wouldn't the border authorities / migration want a piece of you?

Post: #10

but how would they know your income? Foreigners in Ua D don't report income.

Post: #11

I know of guy which stayed about 2 years and had to pay 500$ fine. Though no ban stamp so he can come back. So it seems much cheaper option than to obtain business visa, however, I believe this is a bit of a gray area and depends on the specific border control guys. If you plan to go back I highly recommend legal ways.

Post: #12

(Just a quick update February 2019)

I thought I'd contribute a first hand account of my experience, not a heresay account of someone I know heard about someone who.....

I overstayed 1 year and 7 months.

Overstaying has definitely changed since the last time I did it. I had actually overstayed the previous trip and usually used overstaying as a way of actually living in Ukraine without a Visa (BTW, I had gone through the gammit of visa's, registrations, etc. before using overstaying and either paying "a bribe, pre-EuroMaidan", or an official fine, then returning after any trip).

I was prepared for this, however and there is also a lot of misinformation, so I thought I'd contribute my first hand experience at the border. Borispil Airport.

Step by Step

1) Taken out of line.

2) Escorted to an office.

3) Told that the fine had increase to 5800UAH or roughly $195.00USD (previously it was 850UAH). Given the option of going to the bank downstairs and paying cash or use my credit/debit card right there in the office at their mini terminal to process. I chose the latter, why not? Same money, saves time going downstairs and back up again through security etc. No paperwork (used to have to wait for paperwork to be filled out, no more).

4) Told I couldn't return for a minimum of 3 months and that it is now strictly enforced (unlike the past where even if you overstayed and there were ever any question at passpot control upon re-entry, I would just show the documents that I had paid a fine and they let me back in).

5) Given a receipt for the transaction and sent to the express passport control lane.

6) Passport stamped (no deportation or any other nasty stuff).

That's it. All very civil, but even in the bribe taking days, they had always been very civil, especially if you speak Russian.

So, for those of you who want to stay long term, I'd advise getting somekind of Temporary Residency. There are a few lawyers who specialize in this. I've heard it's quite expensive. But I'm sure there are plenty of guys on this forum who've done it and can chime in with the details and costs. It would be a very helpful thread if anyone who has personally gone through the Temporary Residence Visa process can contribute.

Hope you've found this useful....

Post: #13

Thanks for the update.

Pretty much the same as always then apart from a much bigger fine.

If you want to stay in Ukraine long term then I agree residency is the way to go, otherwise you'll feel trapped because as soon as you leave the country you won't be able to return for 3 months.

Post: #14

(03-01-2019 05:05 AM)Eddie Morra Wrote:  So, for those of you who want to stay long term, I'd advise getting somekind of Temporary Residency.

Seriously appreciate the update--thanks!

The TR is $1000 to $2000 usd depending on how bonafide you want it. I've gathered quite a bit of info about this option so if you're interested, PM me.

Post: #15

(03-01-2019 08:04 AM)Feyoder Wrote:  

(03-01-2019 05:05 AM)Eddie Morra Wrote:  So, for those of you who want to stay long term, I'd advise getting somekind of Temporary Residency.

Seriously appreciate the update--thanks!

The TR is $1000 to $2000 usd depending on how bonafide you want it. I've gathered quite a bit of info about this option so if you're interested, PM me.

Thanks!

But actually, if you could do a Post or Thread on it, I'm sure others would appreciate the contribution.

Post: #16

I agree, that would be good info to make a thread about and a good way to contribute to the forum.

Post: #17

I bought a one year residency in Kiev in July-August 2017 for 550 usd from a middle man plus around 130 usd for a registered address (a must) from another guy. The registered address was supposed to be included in the package of 15000 UAH which I agreed to pay for the residency but the middle man fucked me over (He just said that his people let him down and therefore he can't provide the address for free anymore. Great excuse to add $200 to a $550 deal. All Ukrainians are fucking like that unless they get beaten, but you shouldn't do it as a foreigner so prepare to get fucked).

Also you can get registered at an address at a place that you actually rent for much cheaper or for free if you have a good relationship with the owner.

All of this was 100% legal (although it's a 100% scheme) because I couldn't afford any overstaying. Also the middle man took me to an office of the actual law firm who does the whole thing, so I can cut the middle man now when I need to.

I instructed one friend who wanted to do the same and he got in touch with the lawyers directly. Everything seemed to work at that point (early 2018) and according to what my friend said the costs for direct deal were around $350 instead of $550 which I paid, although fluency in Russian is advisable.

The whole scheme is laughable but I can attest that it works because I crossed the border about 10 times during the year (20 times if you count the exits) and I have the most hated passport in Ukraine right now, but no one could tell me anything once I showed the permit.

If you are interested, send me a PM and I will try give you the address and the website of the law firm and explain the mechanism.

Post: #18

(03-01-2019 05:05 AM)Eddie Morra Wrote:  So, for those of you who want to stay long term, I'd advise getting somekind of Temporary Residency. There are a few lawyers who specialize in this. I've heard it's quite expensive. But I'm sure there are plenty of guys on this forum who've done it and can chime in with the details and costs. It would be a very helpful thread if anyone who has personally gone through the Temporary Residence Visa process can contribute.

(03-01-2019 11:29 AM)edlefou Wrote:  I agree, that would be good info to make a thread about and a good way to contribute to the forum.

Here you go: /thread-53129...pid1247379

(03-12-2016 05:19 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  My visa is known as a TRP or Temporary Resident Permit.
Specifically, I believe it's a D-visa or religious visa. My work sponsored me for this (no money required on their part, just documents).

$200 for the visa + 900 grn for the below:
-Passport translated & notarized
-Ukrainian health insurance
-6 passport sized photos

My work supplied documents from the minister of immigration verifying that I was a "religious volunteer" as well as validating my place of residence, transportation, food, etc., all supplied through my "religious organization".

To start the process I had to leave Ukraine and apply at a Ukrainian consulate outside of the country (see my adventure to Moldova write-up for more information). Once the Ukrainian authorities in Chisinau verified all my documents they gave me a single entry visa in my passport that I take to the immigration office (OVIR) upon my arrival back in Ukraine. OVIR processed my visa and in one week I was given my very own temporary resident permit that I can renew within Ukraine as long as I work for my employer.

The final step was registering the TRP with my landlord. This was a pain in the ass as the office of immigration registry is in Brovary, a satellite town on the outskirts of Kiev. The office was packed and it took six hours of going back and fourth between offices, waiting in lines, waiting for bureaucrats to go on their breaks/lunch hours and come back, etc. But when all was said and done everything was approved and I'm happy to be living here legally and can now enter and exit Ukraine as often as I choose.

Was it a headache? Yes.
Was it worth it? Yes, because I plan to stay here long term.

If you're only going to be here for a few months or less than a year I wouldn't do it. Just overstay your tourist visa and depart the country via Boryspol. You can easily pay the fine (850 grn) at the window in the airport and they won't give you any trouble.

Keep in mind this info is a couple years old and may be subject to change.
I have since updated my TRP to an official 3 year working permit. The most pain-in-the-ass part of getting it was returning to the US and waiting for the San Francisco consulate to process it for me:

$300 for the permit
-10 business days to process
-Passport translated & notarized
-Ukrainian health insurance
-2 passport photos

My company also provided me with an immigration lawyer which I had to pay out-of-pocket for annual registration.
-last year: 2,000 hryvnia
-this year: 3,200 hryvnia
-next year: who knows