Post: #1

Are your looks a factor in getting women? Definitely. But can the lack of looks be compensated for? Definitely. It’s is very difficult for men to imagine that women don’t care about looks that much simply because we care so much about it. For men, physical beauty matters and matters a lot. But a woman objective is different and thus the way she looks at the world is different. Without getting into the details of this and to keep this simple: a woman see you not as you are but how you make her feel.

Look at the photo below. That magnifying glass she is holding is her feelings. How someone makes us feel affects the way we actually see them but for women this is magnified 10X just like the magnifying glass implies. Regardless of how you look, IF you can make a woman "feel" good you will change how she sees you. If you need additional proof of this, just look at all those little dogs women adore. I doubt most of us are more ugly than some of those dogs.

She may look at you initially and think you are the ugliest thing she has ever seen BUT if she allows the chance for you to interact with her and through that interaction she starts to feel good her perception of you will begin to change. The better you make her feel the more her perception of how you look will change for the better. (You will actually start to look more handsome to her – literally.) This is also why women are less hung up on race, hair, eye color etc. This is not to say your looks don’t matter at all, they do. They just don’t matter as much as you may think and even if you are not the most good looking guy around, you can compensate for that by changing the way she feels when she is with you.

PS Just like men, some women have a strong attraction to certain looks, for example, she may like Black or Asian guys. If you are her "type" then your looks will confer upon you a significant "initial" advantage. If you were to put me in a line up with all of my girlfriends boyfriends you would immediately wonder what the hell I was doing in there. They had a type all right, usually: tall, handsome, and white and then there was me. Now I am not saying I am ugly but as one girl once told me I better stay behind the camera

Post: #2

Looks matter. And: ugly guys can talk their face away.

But for one night stands and other short term flings, looking good really helps. Well built men enjoy more one night stands:

Quote:Women said their short-term partners were more muscular than their average sex partners. Muscular men reported more lifetime sex partners, short-term partners and more affairs with attached women.

Women love a good looking men. The biggest predictor of whether a woman will orgasm during intercourse is how symmetrical her guy is:

Quote:Men with symmetrical bodies apparently have a higher IQ, they run faster, dance better, sing better, are less depressed, smell sexier, sound nicer, and produce more and faster-swimming sperm than their asymmetrical counterparts. As if that’s not enough, women with symmetrical partners apparently experience more orgasms than women with asymmetrical partners. Symmetrical men, it seems, really are better-quality mates.

A lot of girls whose sexuality has been unchained will openly admit to just wanting hot guys for sex. "He's not boyfriend material, just a fuck toy."

The point is: Only care about the factors you can change, accept those you cannot. Work on being an attractive guy, physically and mentally. That's game.

Post: #3

How good looking would you rate this guy?

Post: #4

Roosh is an average looking guy who plays off his unique appearance and demeanor while traveling. He no doubt works harder than better looking men with even mediore game.

Post: #5

Exactly, Roosh is living proof that your looks can be compensated for in other ways but I believe, aside from the hard work, he has learned how to make women feel sexual...

(08-11-2012 12:06 PM)Gmac Wrote:  Roosh is an average looking guy who plays off his unique appearance and demeanor while traveling. He no doubt works harder than better looking men with even mediore game.

Post: #6

Do everything you can to "max out" your looks. Being in good shape, dressing sharp, having clean white teeth, well groomed hair, clear skin, nice shoes, etc, can make a big difference.

I think you can go from a "5" to a "7" just by doing a good job on these things.

Throw in good conversation, good humor, and a solid understanding of game and you will really have a chance.

I have been recently getting help on my hair and clothes. That shit makes a big difference. Find the best hair style for you and the best "look" for you. Talk to friends annd fellow gamers, read mens fashion magazines, observe and learn from other stylish guys.

Post: #7

Looks/height are huge. I would place them above money. An old man with billions would gladly give up his money in return for being 21 again.

Post: #8

I agree. You certainly should BUT at the same time it should not be your primary focus. What happens with a lot people is that they get so wrapped in their looks they lose sight of the other more important stuff like learning how to make a woman feel sexy.

(08-11-2012 01:05 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  Do everything you can to "max out" your looks. Being in good shape, dressing sharp, having clean white teeth, well groomed hair, clear skin, nice shoes, etc, can make a big difference.

I think you can go from a "5" to a "7" just by doing a good job on these things.

Throw in good conversation, good humor, and a solid understanding of game and you will really have a chance.

I have been recently getting help on my hair and clothes. That shit makes a big difference. Find the best hair style for you and the best "look" for you. Talk to friends annd fellow gamers, read mens fashion magazines, observe and learn from other stylish guys.

Post: #9

This Looks versus Game discussion has to end. Just bringing it up is bordering on trolling, it's so played out.

I don't know about everyone else, but I consider this issue settled. Attraction comes down to several things. Some of those you can improve more than others. To simplify things, you can call them all game--to an extent--but they break down into these rough categories.

1. Looks/height
2. Wealth/status
3. "Game," in the traditional sense

If you have an abundance of all three, you will kill it and struggle to keep your balls full enough for the next chick in line. Most of us have those bars at the different levels and work to get them as high as possible.

/discussion

Post: #10

Yes and No. It depends on the girl. The younger and dumber the girl the more looks and all things visual will matter.

(08-11-2012 01:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Looks/height are huge. I would place them above money. An old man with billions would gladly give up his money in return for being 21 again.

Post: #11

(08-11-2012 01:15 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  This Looks versus Game discussion has to end. Just bringing it up is bordering on trolling, it's so played out.

It's subtle trolling. It it deserves a spot on here.
/thread-5522.html

Post: #12

I did a search before posting this topic on here and didn't find anything that really addressed this topic. The topic is not about whether looks matter. I clearly states it does. It's about how much they matter and what can be done to compensate for the lack of it.

Maybe I wasn't looking for the right keywords...

(08-11-2012 01:28 PM)rakishness Wrote:  

(08-11-2012 01:15 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  This Looks versus Game discussion has to end. Just bringing it up is bordering on trolling, it's so played out.

It's subtle trolling. It it deserves a spot on here.
/thread-5522.html

Post: #13

(08-11-2012 01:16 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Yes and No. It depends on the girl. The younger and dumber the girl the more looks and all things visual will matter.

(08-11-2012 01:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Looks/height are huge. I would place them above money. An old man with billions would gladly give up his money in return for being 21 again.

You create a lot of threads then try to relish in the answers/attention you get. It's got to stop. And please quit putting the quotes below your response.

Post: #14

Go to the gym regularly, groom well, dress well and you've done all you can. If looks matter a ton - then you've done all you can (within reason, I'm not talking blowing half your life savings on rhinoplasty for example). If looks don't matter virtually at all, at least you've invested in yourself and there will be a little bit of benefit with girls, not to mention the ancillary benefits like health and increased testosterone to motivate you to pick up girls (gym), and maybe respect in the business world and among your male peers (grooming and dressing well).

Then just focus on your game and other things

Post: #15

(08-11-2012 01:36 PM)Gmac Wrote:  

(08-11-2012 01:16 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Yes and No. It depends on the girl. The younger and dumber the girl the more looks and all things visual will matter.

(08-11-2012 01:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Looks/height are huge. I would place them above money. An old man with billions would gladly give up his money in return for being 21 again.

You create a lot of threads then try to relish in the answers/attention you get. It's got to stop.

From what I recall all of his threads are the same old dredged up dreck that has been beat to death a million times. Posted with the professorial air of the all knowing that belongs more on a newbie pickup forum than here.

Hell, the only reason I even opened it was to see if he was getting lit up yet.

Post: #16

Sorry guys I wasn't aware that this forum was primarily for professional PUA. I certainly don't consider myself to be a PUA, much less a professional. I thought based on Roosh books that it was just a general forum for discussing various issues related to meeting women. And, I am a complete "newbie" when it comes to using a forum. Never posted on a forum before this one. And yes, I certainly need to work on my humility... With all of that said, I really am not seeking attention or fame - never really cared much for it. It is nice to get some private messages from people on here now and then saying how much I may have helped to clarify something though...

Post: #17

I agree this topic is played out, although I wouldn't consider it trolling because looks do matter a lot, and I think a guy would be in denial if he tried to down play the importance of looks, which hardcore "game guys" like the RSD peeps tend to do.

In my opinion women rate men's appearance as follows:

1.) Facial looks (how handsome are you)

2.) Height

3.) Build (muscular physique)

4.) Style (how well dressed are you)

As Gio said a guy should strive to max out in every category (except for height, which you can't do anything about other than "lifts), part of "game" in my opinion is self-improvement, and "being your best self".

As far as Roosh goes I wouldn't say he's unattractive, he's average IMO, but he's close to the ideal height which women really swoon over ( 6 ft 2 in). I've said it before and gotten major heat for it, but height is a huge factor in attraction, especially western women, probably even more than a muscular physique and style combined.

Maybe Roosh or Tuth will see me as a troll, but I truly think that looks/height (at least at the top end) are more important than game in this current day and age. I see this because I have pretty solid game, much better than 90% of the guys I see out at my local bar scene, however weekend after weekend, I witness the guys pulling the hottest chicks are typically the tallest and most handsome guys, with your occasional guy who is a serious baller, thug/meathead/jock (masuline +), and guys with status on the local scene.

This especially stings when I roll with one of my bro's who I've mentioned before, dude is 6 ft 5 in. and what women would consider "classically handsome", even though I have him beat for sure in physique and style, it's like I'm practically invisible to chicks when he's around. Either they outright approach him, or if there are two girls they will typically compete for his attention, or I will be stuck with the ugliest of the two or the group.

I will say that approaching hard can be the X factor that will make up for the results. I have recently been in a bit of a funk and haven't really been putting much effort into approaching/gaming, also my local scene has been shit lately, so there haven't been many chicks I have really been motivated to chase. Anyways, the point I want to make is that, a lot of guys, like my tall/handsome friend, don't really put any work into approaching chicks and typically hook up with chicks that approach them, or give them every IOI in the book, prompting the guy to approach. If you approach hard, you will play the numbers game giving you a wider array of girls to potentially work with, then a guy who just hangs back and waits for IOI's.

Final thought, looks matter the most in dating/sexual markets that are stacked the worst against men, where female hypergamy is prevalent, and women have a huge pool of men to choose from. Unfortunately that describes the scene I am currently stuck in, but that seems to be the trend that is overtaking most places in the U.S. Lot's of horny, thristy men, all trying to holler and compete for the same pool of women. In this situation women can be more picky and judgmental, which in a way makes women more like men when it comes to their dating and sexual preferances, seeking to fuck the "hottest" guys they can. I will also agree that there are some women who through their "female" game will disqualify very handsome men for relationships (because they know there will be a high chance of infidelity), but at the same time will happily ride the "alpha cock carousel", while dating a less attractive guy who will really cherish them and put them on the pedestal.

Post: #18

(08-11-2012 01:16 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Yes and No. It depends on the girl. The younger and dumber the girl the more looks and all things visual will matter.

(08-11-2012 01:06 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Looks/height are huge. I would place them above money. An old man with billions would gladly give up his money in return for being 21 again.

1. 99% of women are dumb.

2. Young women are hot.


Therefore,

The hotter the woman is, the more looks matter.


Therefore,

If you want hot women, look good. And a man looks best between the ages of 26-34, so being young is extremely important for getting hot women.

Post: #19

I have a tall, good looking friend friend who I hang out with a lot. And sure, he gets hit on a lot more than me BUT once a woman starts interacting with me things change. Usually what happens is that we will approach two women and initially they will both be interested in him but once they start interact with me I have a 50% chance of ending up with the higher value girl. This is especially true of girls with a high socio-economic status and higher education level. He has told me I am not really aware of the value of my socio-economic background. For example, he said girls are impressed with the fact that I have lived outside of the US and have traveled all over the place, and can talk about a wide range of subjects even though I don't consider this anything special.

The point I am trying to make here is that, based on my own personal experience, I believe that personality, perceived status, and your ability to handle women (game) can compensate or neutralize looks ONCE you can engage a woman. What I do hate about the SOB (my friend), is that he gets sex a lot easier than I do. I usually have to work 300% harder to lay a girl than he does but I also get a higher quality of girls. He doesn't get approached by any 8s and above but a good number of 5-7s and older women will ping him every time we go out. Whereas I am lucky if I get one or two pings from anyone the whole night.

Post: #20

A tiny sampling of what the OP's "search" missed:

its all about looks ,everything rest is luck.

Do looks matter at all?

Good Looking Dude Game

Disadvantages for good looking guys

Tall Muscular White Guy Game vs. Short Ethnic Guy Game

status: makes u wish u were famous

Are you better off improving yourself/status rather than game?

Who is nailing the 8s and up? What kind of guys?

Importance of height

Post: #21

Moreover, here's an April Fool's thread I made lampooning the subject:

Why "Game" Doesn't Really Work (Hear Me Out)

Post: #22

There seems to be an increasing trend towards "game denialism" in the seduction community. Guys are increasingly emphasizing "looks" over "game".

Assanova:

"One of the things that you'll see PUAs doing, is insisting that game works. I'm going to tell you why it appears to work in theory, but won't, in realistic situations. The biggest flaw in game, is that it fails to take into account competitors that are more physically attractive than the guy that uses game as most PUAs know it. This is probably the defacto reason why women are so flaky; there is a more physically attractive competitor in the picture somewhere.

When trying to prove that game works, what a lot of game theorists will do, is try to use examples of a girl with no social life, who most likely never goes to nightclubs, and therefore never really gets the opportunity to interact with physically attractive men. In other words, if a PUA does get one of those girls, usually in day game type situations, it's simply because the woman in question isn't interacting with physically attractive competitors.

Game theorists also like to selectively pick situations as examples of why game works. The most common examples are when the more physically attractive men are completely clueless and lack common sense, they aren't approaching the woman in question, or the more physically attractive man is the exception to the rule and is completely wimpy and beta because he is some kind of momma's boy.

That's just not the way things naturally work. Most physically attractive men do develop common sense, they eventually become self aware of their appearances, and they do eventually develop enough confidence to not be totally beta, simply because more muscular men and taller men are placed into alpha positions, are jocks, and are generally looked up to by other men. And on top of that, women fawn over their appearances, and they eventually get the hint; the more women that fawn over you, the less you value them.

You will never find a woman that will choose a physically unattractive guy with game, over a more physically attractive guy that has basic common sense and confidence. And if you do, it is the exception to the rule, and just isn't a likely scenario in everyday life. Unattractiveness and game will never out-perform looks with confidence. Never."

Is he right?

Post: #23

More:

Looks vs. Game

Importance of physique?

The Power an amazing physique has over women

Post: #24

I came across some of these but none really addressed the issue of how do you compensate for lack of looks.

1. I am emphatically stating that looks matter.
2. I am offering a suggestion on how to neutralize it to some extent.

Which is what I believe your lampooning post does say: that Game can if I am correct?

(08-11-2012 03:47 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  A tiny sampling of what the OP's "search" missed:

its all about looks ,everything rest is luck.

Do looks matter at all?

Good Looking Dude Game

Disadvantages for good looking guys

Tall Muscular White Guy Game vs. Short Ethnic Guy Game

status: makes u wish u were famous

Are you better off improving yourself/status rather than game?

Who is nailing the 8s and up? What kind of guys?

Importance of height

Post: #25

(08-11-2012 04:03 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  I came across some of these but none really addressed the issue of how do you compensate for lack of looks.

So, is what you're saying that game compensates for less-than-stellar looks?