Post: #76

(09-26-2012 03:31 PM)Eddie Morra Wrote:  Hey Guys, I live in Kiev. How's Dockers? The last time I was there (about 4-5 years ago the bouncers made a big deal about not having a free table even though I was solo and just wanted to stand by the bar). Ukainians have a thing about having a place to sit. Hang out, standing at the bar or just mingling about doesn't seem to be part of their DNA. Must be from Soviet times, the neccessity of having to have a table filled with food and doing vodka toasts all night long. What's the action like there now, might head over this weekend.

Was in there on Friday,no trouble with bouncers at all.

Post: #77

(09-26-2012 05:39 PM)EPMD Wrote:  It's nice to see a guy posting photos on here.

Some of the self-proclaimed players on here have zero to back up their declarations

Why is it always new posters that barge in from nowhere and demand everyone to prove themselves to them?

Post: #78

BAB you seem to be getting the cream of the crop in terms of kiev's women. You've been on dates with models,closed a tv presenter whilst being filmed on tv,dating other very hot women etc. You also told me you don't like night game but do it through day game street approaches. I was thinking that you'd be dressed smart for your day game but now I see your'e walking around dressed like a typical backpacker. Therefore you are not even giving off the impression of being their long term. Basically you're following the toughest route but having the best results. I mean you're dating four or five 9's in rotation after being there a week. That's pretty unheard of for a guy with very basic Russian. You seemed to be implying that you were struggling but I would say you are anything but unless you're barometer of success is getting SNL's from 9's.

Break it down for us a little bit more. It would be good to de construct how you're going about it. What do you think is making you so successful?

Post: #79

(09-27-2012 12:21 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(09-26-2012 05:39 PM)EPMD Wrote:  It's nice to see a guy posting photos on here.

Some of the self-proclaimed players on here have zero to back up their declarations

Why is it always new posters that barge in from nowhere and demand everyone to prove themselves to them?

Because they have not built relationships that they are reluctant to challenge. New guys keep it more real and we need their challenges to keep us honest. Older posters often don't want to rock the boat by calling people out.

Post: #80

(09-27-2012 12:25 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 12:21 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(09-26-2012 05:39 PM)EPMD Wrote:  It's nice to see a guy posting photos on here.

Some of the self-proclaimed players on here have zero to back up their declarations

Why is it always new posters that barge in from nowhere and demand everyone to prove themselves to them?

Because they have not built relationships that they are reluctant to challenge. New guys keep it more real and we need their challenges to keep us honest. Older posters often don't want to rock the boat by calling people out.

No it's simply because new posters don't know shit and some of them choose to run their mouths when they should be observing. If this guy would pay attention and he isn't full of shit himself, he can gauge whether the other posters material has any merit or not.

Post: #81

(09-27-2012 12:31 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 12:25 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 12:21 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(09-26-2012 05:39 PM)EPMD Wrote:  It's nice to see a guy posting photos on here.

Some of the self-proclaimed players on here have zero to back up their declarations

Why is it always new posters that barge in from nowhere and demand everyone to prove themselves to them?

Because they have not built relationships that they are reluctant to challenge. New guys keep it more real and we need their challenges to keep us honest. Older posters often don't want to rock the boat by calling people out.

No it's simply because new posters don't know shit and some of them choose to run their mouths when they should be observing. If this guy would pay attention and he isn't full of shit himself, he can gauge whether the other posters material has any merit or not.

Agree. Also new posters haven't had the bad luck of being outed by white knight lurkers after posting Facebook or Couchsurfing pics. It is not fun, at all.

Post: #82

(09-27-2012 12:31 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 12:25 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 12:21 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(09-26-2012 05:39 PM)EPMD Wrote:  It's nice to see a guy posting photos on here.

Some of the self-proclaimed players on here have zero to back up their declarations

Why is it always new posters that barge in from nowhere and demand everyone to prove themselves to them?

Because they have not built relationships that they are reluctant to challenge. New guys keep it more real and we need their challenges to keep us honest. Older posters often don't want to rock the boat by calling people out.

No it's simply because new posters don't know shit and some of them choose to run their mouths when they should be observing. If this guy would pay attention and he isn't full of shit himself, he can gauge whether the other posters material has any merit or not.

No you're arrogant for thinking new posters know shit. Don't judge people on how long they've been on a forum but rather the quality of their input. There are new posters who are utter dicks,but there are plenty too who come in swinging and dropping big data.

Post: #83

(09-26-2012 08:12 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  LOL ,Not sure ,except alot of the highly paid expats were Germans. There was a large German expat community.I think an advantage they had was that they bought their cars over with them. Back then 90% cars on road were old beat up lada's, as you can see in photo's thats changed . My cousin is a waitress in Hawaii she says all European tourist don't tip correctly.

For a bit of old news,Kreshatik was voted year after year back in 2001,2002, etc as best pickup location in Kiev. This was in Kiev Post. The number #1 pickup line was"hello, do you speak English?"
Someone wrote earlier that saying "NO" to speaking English is a well known non interest line i n Europe. Problem with FSU countries is that such a small amount of girls speak english. Also girls often do not want to lose face be speaking bad english with someone they do not know well. Heck you just opened her in the street, she has no reason to be interested in you,lol.

Yes money and appearance has to carry alot of the approach there. I say appearance and not looks. There is a difference. In Western society girls go by looks, as in how we fit thier ideal type or fantasy,alot of it is media/hollywood driven. Alot of our media unfortunately is brainwashing the m also .However thier type is different than the typical pretty boy American girls swoon over. More or less , after seeing some of the short chubby guys they swoon for I figured it out, that its appearance that wins. Short bald chubby guy(Eastern Europeans do not like chubby,slim is in)in a Hugo Boss suit, gucci shoes and Rolex trumps ME in my Movado, Calvin Klien shoes, etc. God forbid you are very goodlooking and look like a palyer, girls will avoid you. LOL, Girls avoided my young good looks. Seriously ,i use t o see clean cut Russian guys in those grey /black thug /bouncer suits standing in front of shiny BMW'S hitting on chicks walking by. They wouldn't even look. An older guy with some AGE in a plain business suit or sweater hit on them ,they were friendly. i heard its because girls there were avoiding the obvious man whores. They do not want thier guy being so capable with the ladies. Not sure if that changed . However, the girls who liked me the most,including my wife, chased me when I was in leather jacket,etc. When i was looking a million bucks, clubs were only place i had girls being really receptive, and those places attracted girls looking for foreigners,etc. I should also add that Mopeds from Odessa was considered COOL one year, so I bought one. I swear, every time" I TURNED AROUND THERE WAS A HOT BLOND OR 2 ON THE BACK"WTF?. My point is the culture is very fad driven. Now cars are cool. If you have the hard to get fad, whatever it may be,you rack up points. Stupid but true.

2003 cannot be compared to now.In 2003 you entered a club in Kiev and 50% you would have an one night stand.It was absurd.I stayed a week and had gotten 3 girlfriends without internet contacts nor speaking Russian.Now the difference is vast.You talk about an extremely easy era which does not exist anymore where the only foreigners in Kiev were some 50-60 years old fat,bald foreigners.When the average salary in Ukraine was below 100$ per month,80% of cars were Lada and the country was closed with mentality totally Russian oriented(no weternization at all).Back then there were almost no big department stores and you could hardly find any items we in EU take for granted.

Post: #84

Kamaki,

How long did russian take for you to learn from zero to conversational with ease? Thanks in advance for being as specific as possible.

Post: #85

(09-27-2012 01:09 AM)Technics Wrote:  Kamaki,

How long did russian take for you to learn from zero to conversational with ease? Thanks in advance for being as specific as possible.

More like 2-3 years.In general FSU girls help a lot to learn Russian.In fact everyone there tries to teach you Russian it is essential for communication.I learned it of course in Greece but had constant correspondence with Ukrainian girls.It is easier to learn polish or Czech in my opinion because cyrillica alphabet makes memorization of words in Russian problematic.However if you know other slavic languages you just twist some words and you get close to Russian.(basically you just add vocals)

Post: #86

(09-26-2012 08:13 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  I think we should just stop mentioning Deb altogether. He was obviously full of shit and mentioning him gives him some kind of credence which could mislead some people into thinking the Ukraine really is a pussy paradise and you only need Google translate to bang. I've got nothing against the guy personally and no doubt he is a nice chap but he was tooling us for sure.

I hung out a lot with him in Ukraine and met his [basically] girlfriend. She is one of those chicks that is very cute, not objectively beautiful (like having long legs, elegant proportions) but really does ooze sex appeal. It's like she's shedding hormones or something. He's not really bullshitting, he just has the wildly optimistic viewpoint of the marketing professional.

Women select very strongly for height everywhere as far as I can tell, and he's 6'6"; but in Ukraine they assume guys are not sincere without a good amount of time to prove yourself.

He thinks in terms of what he THINKS he COULD have done given how friendly women are... the reality is always unknown.

He sort of views things with unrealistic optimism, but it's not deliberate shamming.

It is however true that neither he nor others will be landing multiple 8's without some very, very serious advantages like fame, wealth, extreme good looks or _something_.
My impression is very few women there want to be "notches".

I mentioned in my previous posts, their young hotness is ALL most of these girls have-- they are not going to get fucked by 40 guys like a sorority girl in the West and think they'll still get the investment banker.

Post: #87

(09-27-2012 12:47 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 12:31 AM)Fisto Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 12:25 AM)Vorkuta Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 12:21 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(09-26-2012 05:39 PM)EPMD Wrote:  It's nice to see a guy posting photos on here.

Some of the self-proclaimed players on here have zero to back up their declarations

Why is it always new posters that barge in from nowhere and demand everyone to prove themselves to them?

Because they have not built relationships that they are reluctant to challenge. New guys keep it more real and we need their challenges to keep us honest. Older posters often don't want to rock the boat by calling people out.

No it's simply because new posters don't know shit and some of them choose to run their mouths when they should be observing. If this guy would pay attention and he isn't full of shit himself, he can gauge whether the other posters material has any merit or not.

No you're arrogant for thinking new posters know shit. Don't judge people on how long they've been on a forum but rather the quality of their input. There are new posters who are utter dicks,but there are plenty too who come in swinging and dropping big data.

We're talking about the new posters who demand that veterans prove themselves (and usually without dropping data). Did you not get that part? Does that still make me arrogant? I mean I am but I don't think that's what makes me so ; ) Also, when I say they don't know "shit", I'm not referring to their game level necessarily, I'm more so talking about how this forum works and how people get credibility. I hope that helps you understand better.

Post: #88

(09-27-2012 01:25 AM)iknowexactly Wrote:  I hung out a lot with him in Ukraine and met his [basically] girlfriend. She is one of those chicks that is very cute, not objectively beautiful (like having long legs, elegant proportions) but really does ooze sex appeal. It's like she's shedding hormones or something. He's not really bullshitting, he just has the wildly optimistic viewpoint of the marketing professional.

Women select very strongly for height everywhere as far as I can tell, and he's 6'6"; but in Ukraine they assume guys are not sincere without a good amount of time to prove yourself.

He thinks in terms of what he THINKS he COULD have done given how friendly women are... the reality is always unknown.

He sort of views things with unrealistic optimism, but it's not deliberate shamming.

It is however true that neither he nor others will be landing multiple 8's without some very, very serious advantages like fame, wealth, extreme good looks or _something_.
My impression is very few women there want to be "notches".

I mentioned in my previous posts, their young hotness is ALL most of these girls have-- they are not going to get fucked by 40 guys like a sorority girl in the West and think they'll still get the investment banker.

Fascinating breakdown of the guy. So at least we now have confirmation,as if it was needed,that what he claimed was not the truth. Deliberate bullshitting or not,it was not the truth. He was reporting what 'could' have happened in his idealized fantasy world,but not what did actually happen. It's rather sad that guys feel the need to people please like that. Must have underlying insecurity problems.

As for not getting the 8's without that extra something: The OP seems to be doing it ok. That's why I want him to break it down a little more.

Post: #89

Quote:He thinks in terms of what he THINKS he COULD have done given how friendly women are... the reality is always unknown.

I think you just confirmed Roosh's suspicion that Deb was only seeing the teenage girl in Kiev and the rest were made up.

Post: #90

(09-26-2012 07:36 PM)IainMuirs Wrote:  

Quote: They love Germans because Germans always were very generous. They the least cheap when on holiday, it impresses girls. Seriously , girls aren't looking for passports ,they are looking for the green behind it.

Strange because the Germans are known to be the cheap skates of Europe, so what makes them splash the cash when in Ukraine?

This.I stopped reading here,as the bullshit smell was unbearable.Seemed like random sentences put together with lack of knowledge how to use the 'Space' button.

OP, you seem to instead trying to connect to them as a person, try to get into a provider mode, without spending too much anyway.You were even surprised they refused your gifts and didn't get wet by hearing about your almighty British passport.Your overall look doesn't match the picture you're trying to portray.You also hope to impress models with 9$ Imporio Harmani and they must immediately magically spread their legs.That's pretty redneck.

With all that said, you seem to be doing not bad at all.These girls are all gorgeous.With my experience with Russian and Ukrainian girls, money aren't a must.In fact, I've never spend cash on them.Just connected as a man to a woman and was the breath of fresh air, they needed at the time.I later found out a few had rich English boyfriends 10 year older than us, that were paying for whatever they wanted, including holidays without them around the world, not a fake Armani.So as you can see both roads can lead to vag...eventually.

Post: #91

(09-27-2012 12:21 AM)Vicious Wrote:  

(09-26-2012 05:39 PM)EPMD Wrote:  It's nice to see a guy posting photos on here.

Some of the self-proclaimed players on here have zero to back up their declarations

Why is it always new posters that barge in from nowhere and demand everyone to prove themselves to them?

I'm not demanding anything. But I see a lot of talk here.....and it seems like the guys who are supposedly doing the best will never provide any illustration.

No one has to prove themselves, but I would have thought some would be tempted to show off or give other readers an idea of what they consider to be a 8 or whatever.

So, much respect to the OP, ok maybe he could smarten his attire up somewhat, even for daygame. But this guy is obviously doing well regardless and he's happy.

He's new here like me, he's produced a great datasheet with pictures. How many of his critics can say the same?

Post: #92

Quick update to this thread because I have 3 days left here and am in danger of keyboard jockeying if I monitor this thread to much. No more posts until I post a final update on Monday morning when I am back to my Mediteranean base of operations.

Regarding Shy Blonde: Dinner date for yesterday, she came early and surprised me in said clothes you are all laughing at. Went up to her favourite coffee place ( a gem for comfort) and I worked my finest triple A comfort. Got to intimate hand holding, eye fucking and she had a couple of tears in her eyes at one or two emotional moments. After 2 hours she gets up and suddenly has to go home. WTF again!? No dinner date because her mouth hurts from dentist etc. She seems like she is desperately not trying to get caught in the love bubble, bursting it whenever it looks like she will get caught in the moment. This is dating 40s style and i'm having to unlearn western game as Roosh has mentioned from his EE posts. Losing patience I SMS her that "Its shit or get off the pot time. My patience has limits and shes got to show some interest for me to continue". She comes back with she really wants me to show interest in her, shes happy that im seeing her etc nothing more. This chick is gaming me LOL. I will let her reach out to me and if all goes well she's on the import to Mediteranean stack for a trial 1 month.

Regarding Clothes: These were clothes I threw on for a lunch meet with a business associate. For dates I am rocking a custom smoking jacket, pocket square, designer jeans and nice loafers. LOL at the keyboard jockeys dumping on my style. Those clothes when I haven't lost 3kg from the food here and when ironed serve me perfectly for student gaming, which is my forte. I would outdress most of you on my night off. Custom Saville Row suited, custom Jermyn Street shirted, gold 90 year old cuff links, pocket square, Tricker's shoes. Most of you boys hatin' don't even know these makers because they're the creme de la creme of london tailoring and thus global tailoring. I'm a part time hedge-funder...... please gents.

LOL at pounding Kiev streets like i've been pounding (at least 6 km a day) in my Trickers. May as well throw them in the trash after. Also I would stand out like a majorly sore thumb. Having said that this morning I have borrowed my neighbours iron and am buying jeans two sizes smaller. Lost about 3kg here on the awful food and massive street pounding I am doing. Those jeans were tight tight and ironed when I arrived.

You don't realise the logistics I'm working with here. This isn't the London Ritz i'm staying at. Transporting a custom suit to ukraine with all the travelling will f*** it up big time. My flat didn't have water nor electricity for the last 24hrs due to a breakage and its just come back on. My iron looks like it is from the 1930s. My soviet era washing machine wouldn't open its door with my clothes in it for 48 hrs. If some of you boys stay at the intercontinental and get this shit done for you, great, but thats not my style. I make do with a central apartment to facilitate my bangs.

Regarding how I'm dating 2 or 3 top shelf babes: You would have to ask the babes LOL. All I can say is I have only 3 top shelf girls I am advancing nicely with, not a harem of them. Most of you would NOT have the patience to advance inch by inch like I am. This is Omaha beach stuff. I am very charming when I need to be, very urbane, relatively rich and very British. My interests are very different to Roosh's: I have an absolutely pimped out bachelor pad next to the beach on the Mediterranean coast (Roosh has seen photos and is always welcome) where I live and my intention is to import my favourite 8 or 9s to be with me on a trial basis for a month. Much like I would go to Germany to buy a Porsche or top end BMW and then drive it back to Spain. I have no interest in laying a long line of 6s and 7s. I am sure this is the case for many RVFers bored with low quality lizards. I can confirm I spend very little money on these girls, may give them a gift which to me cost less than 20 euros and so this is true game, I am not semi buying them Kamaki style (no hating K). I could buy these girls their own apartments in Kiev tomorrow with a call to my banker, but I am doing this as pure game as possible and trying to minimise gold digging. Isn't that why we're on RVF and not on worldsexguide.org?

Regarding Vorkuta and Ukrainian girls conversations: LOL dude, my experience is the same as yours. Very few engage me with stimulating conversation. Only Red did and her English is perfect and she's a little more westernised. Finding a 9 who is also cool, funny and interesting is like a needle in a haystack here. I have a 7/7.5 who is cute as hell and funny as hell too. Backburnered her to work my top talent and really regret it now as she is off to Poland for a week and I can't advance her. She was the most fun but a complete exception.

Regarding Deb and new posters hatin': Please don't derail the thread with offtopic stuff. This thread is for Ukraine top shelf babes, Kiev and how to lay them in as short a time as possible. Deb is a good bloke and I look forward to meeting him as a fellow Brit.

Post: #93

If you pay for girls' vaccations it is possible to lay everything.The problem is that one has to pay for girl's air ticket and accomodation for time being to get a visa.For example in order to get a visa for one month one should pay 350 euro for ticket+30x25=1000 euro only to bring the girl regardless of the expenses needed after that.
You commit serious mistake.During daygame in Kiev you should be seriously overdressed to get results.Ukrainian girls do not pay attention to guys in jeans and sports shoes.

Post: #94

I appreciate the input on dressing Kamaki, I will certainly test run overdressing (as far as I can with the little I have here) over the weekend and report back. Your input as always very much appreciated, just don't go on about 200 euro presents as I don't want to see you banned LOL. PM me because I would love to hook up with you to game FSU in Spring and get your unique take on things. Being both Southern Mediterraneans (I look British) we would have a lot in common.

Getting the girls over here for "vacations" is not expensive for me. I have a top shelf apartment I own on the Spanish coast were you can surf in December. I also have a house further down the coast and a London property. The problem will be VISAS (im sure kamaki will have input) which is another reason to avoid UKRAINE should you want to import top shelf talent as I want to. Getting a girl over from EE is easy, but from Ukraine/Russia and especially Belarus, its a real mission. May have to bribe someone at the Spanish embassy LOL.

Post: #95

(09-27-2012 04:11 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  If you pay for girls' vaccations it is possible to lay everything.The problem is that one has to pay for girl's air ticket and accomodation for time being to get a visa.For example in order to get a visa for one month one should pay 350 euro for ticket+30x25=1000 euro only to bring the girl regardless of the expenses needed after that.

We should discuss game not sponsoring here

(09-27-2012 04:11 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  You commit serious mistake.During daygame in Kiev you should be seriously overdressed to get results.Ukrainian girls do not pay attention to guys in jeans and sports shoes.

I imagine that whenever Ukrainian girl sees a man who's overdressed, she automatically become suspicious, a good outfit is a must in a club, not so much on the streets, as long as he's consistent he'll do fine even in jeans

Post: #96

Indeed Polish, its a very fine balance. In my date game uniform (which most of you fashionista would probably criticise) I am seriously overdressed on the street compared to Ukrainians and getting multiple looks from girls as well as thugs. I do not want to transmit the rich guy vibe, at the same time I dont want to make my life more difficult by underdressing. This is what this thread is about, finding optimum tactics over here.

The most important statistic for the last week and a half in Kiev: 3 top shelf FSU babes being dated (model not included) - shit loads of kino, continuing dates, 0 Makeouts, 0 Bangs. Around $170 dollars spent on these 3 girls (this is peanuts to me, but I keep it cheap on principle)

I dated and had great success with (stopping short of bang due to backburnering) 3 7-7.5 girls. I will bang the super feminine 7.5 before leaving on Sunday to relieve some stress. SNLs outside of nightgame seem nigh on impossible with length of stay being the bottleneck.

I can confirm that <8 girls I work here are putty in my hands. Its the >8 girls that need decoding.

Post: #97

You should be overdressed in the streets to show off as businessman or sth.The problem is that in this way you attract attention of thieves so you should keep an eye on possible thugs except of girls passing by.
The money you pay to get a visa for girl are directly related to the time she will spend in resort.For example for Greece I have to pay 25 euro/day otherwise the travel agency cannot arrange a visa(25 euro per day is the cheapest possible price for accomodation in Athens).So for one month it gets to 25x30=750 euro+350 euro for air ticket=1000 euro.In case you bring her to Turkey(resort like Marmaris,Bodrum,Antalya) you only need to pay for the ticket to Turkey(350 euro)+30 euro for her visa at the turkish airport+your air ticket to Turkey(300 euro)=700 euro.

Mind you the arrangement for visa by tourist agency through paying for whole package(plane ticket and accomodation) is a very recent one.Two years ago you could only get a French visa for which you had to pay about 1000 euro to French embassy.With French visa the girl could enter any other country in EU so she could come to Greece.Some pimps used this route to bring Ukrainian girls to Greece.(generally the Greek embassy refused to issue visas to any Ukrainian girl under 35 years old with the thought they would come for prostitution and extend their stay illegaly.Now hopefully this ban has been lifted due to crisis and severe need for FSU tourists to replace the English,Germans who stopped coming in mass).
I do not know if Ukrainian citizens can easily get Spanish visa but if it is impossible you should think getting a visa issued for another EU country in Shengen zone and bring the girl to Spain from this country.

Post: #98

(09-27-2012 04:35 AM)polish rumble Wrote:  

(09-27-2012 04:11 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  If you pay for girls' vaccations it is possible to lay everything.The problem is that one has to pay for girl's air ticket and accomodation for time being to get a visa.For example in order to get a visa for one month one should pay 350 euro for ticket+30x25=1000 euro only to bring the girl regardless of the expenses needed after that.

We should discuss game not sponsoring here

(09-27-2012 04:11 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  You commit serious mistake.During daygame in Kiev you should be seriously overdressed to get results.Ukrainian girls do not pay attention to guys in jeans and sports shoes.

I imagine that whenever Ukrainian girl sees a man who's overdressed, she automatically become suspicious, a good outfit is a must in a club, not so much on the streets, as long as he's consistent he'll do fine even in jeans

I thought it had been established that game does not work in Ukraine?

Post: #99

EPMD: Not quite. This is a GAME board. Game works everywhere that women have pussies. The key is deciphering the secret blend for these difficult foreign locations. That takes time and a lot of trial and error.

Post: #100

Kamaki is right about dresscode, but I don't think overdressing is necessary especially when running day approaches, the girls may think you are gay.

I recently heard of a guy from Brazil who was beat up by a group of Arabs as he left a nightclub out of the centre of Kiev.

This guy was a soft target, well dressed, in his forties, but gay looking and generally inoffensive.

They beat him and took everything he had including his passport. Poor guy spent a week in hospital