Post: #1

Last night I had a long conversation w/ my housemates. They are good guys, good friends, and they care about me but since diving head first back into game, they are seeing changes in me: more assertive, more confident, more aggressive, not giving a fuck, etc. Without a doubt, these are positive changes for me and I'm pulling lizards both more consistently and at higher levels than ever before. But these friends are disturbed by these changes and want me to go back to the old me. I believe this is because they are under the sway of the blue pill. Hell, they sound like feminists when they are criticizing me! And no matter how many times I explain that I'm happier than I've ever been, they remain "worried" about me ... even when I explain that if they'd only ever known me this way, they wouldn't have any problems. Now they are actively cockblocking me, banning the hottest (and naturally most dangerous) lizard in my rotation from our house and trying to get me to focus on "the future" while simultaneously trying to bring back the "WhiteFang of old". I saw the exact same thing happen about four years back when I last made a run run at game and started scaring my (also well-meaning) family and let them talk me into dropping game and pursuing a "serious" relationship... which was a huge mistake and in fact now my family admits that I'm better off focusing on "just getting laid". I realize there is nothing I can say to these people that will convince them; they are too scared and desperate to maintain equilibrium to even *watch* someone leave behind the confines of their safe little world, change, and grow. It's like they don't want to look behind the curtain because then they will have to admit that all human interaction is manipulation at its core. It's just that most of it goes unexamined. But I refuse to be plugged back in to the matrix so obviously the only thing for me to do is move out and move on. Any brothers experience similar growing pains?

Post: #2

Denial is a powerful coping mechanism. If you successfully live a life that contradicts their choices they will fight you tooth and nail at first before hopefully coming around and facing the ugly truth that "love" is a biological mechanism and human interactions are indeed exchanges of goods/ emotions. Also, some people hate the structured, logical approach as it destroys the "it just happens" romantic idea of relationships which our romantic comdey society seems to be so fond of.

Post: #3

Don't try to change them and don't discuss game with them.Get your own place ASAP

Post: #4

I think you need to move ASAP. WTF is this about banning a girl you're seeing from the house? It's one thing for them not to live like you live, but if they're actively trying to throw salt in your game you need to walk. They want you to wallow in their mediocrity and misery.

Post: #5

Thanks guys. I agree 100%.

Post: #6

I treat those types like women/children - when they bullshit you give them an intimidating glare, make it a point not to fuck with you etc. They tend to fold rather quickly. Of course, the best thing to do is to move out like posters above said, but if you can't find another place you may give this a try.

Post: #7

I think we need for information:

why exactly did they say that they were worried about you? Due to 'gaming' have you started to drink excessively or do drugs?

Why would they ban a hot girl? Was she stealing, being obnoxious, or acting like a prima donna?

What sort of changes are they complaining about?

Social politics is an art form.

Post: #8

Quote: trying to get me to focus on "the future"

Has your work taken a hit? If you're studying, has your grade performance gone down? If you had hobbies which provided you with useful skillsets, have they been neglected?

Are they right here, or just hating? Be honest.

Quote:trying to bring back the "WhiteFang of old"

Guys like other guys who they feel they can influence.

That said, you shouldn't try to 'game' your friends. Send them actual responses on text instead of playing the aloof alpha - they're not broads, and playing that game there will just make you seem like a low quality friend.

Always remember the generosity of kings. Give value to your friends but put your domain first and pick your friends so that they give you value.

Post: #9

Post: #10

(02-13-2013 10:46 AM)MrXY Wrote:  Don't try to change them and don't discuss game with them.Get your own place ASAP

This is very true.

Like you said, they have the blue-pill mentality, talking like feminists. It becomes difficult to prove that this is an improved lifestyle, to a group of people who don't share those values. You're basically trying to convince a bunch of people that reinforce each other's blue pill perspectives. It's like arguing about religion.

I just avoided the trouble by not even discussing this side of me to my 'well-meaning' friends. To me it's not worth the negativity that this lifestyle specifically gets away from. Definitely get your own place ASAP.

Post: #11

Mental, typically that's what I would advocate for as well but in this situation: (1) it's 3 against 1 and they keep having these intervention-style meetings where they gang up on me and (2) they got to know me as a shy, passive "nice guy" type and they're alarmed by the change to a take-no-shit cocky asshole ... turning it into a confrontation only cements their concern and gets them farther up my ass. I've learned that in a group you can be tough initially and then add in "niceness" later but if you start nice and go tough you always get labeled a problem.

Guerrilla, the two changes that disturb them are the aggression and the manipulative approach to women (and to a certain extent, life itself). These guys are all party guys and we all drink and do drugs together all the time. One dude is gay but the other two actually like picking up girls. They're just not methodical about it. One guy is a total natural and he's White Knighting me re: respect for women ... the other guy could really benefit from being taken under my wing because he has the desire and could kill but he's too passive to come out of his shell and go after what he wants.

Storm, work is an area of concern because the company I work for is struggling ... since getting back into game, my own performance at work has actually improved but I'm not in the driver's seat and there's only so much I will do for them given what they are paying me. In terms of neglected hobbies — my friends are citing that I don't smoke pot, sit on the couch, and watch TV with them as much as I used to. Well,no shit — that's a dead-end. I'd rather be on here keeping the saw sharp then letting it go dull. The only other hobby I have is a nascent interest in MMA but that just feeds their concerns that I'm getting too aggressive.

As to gaming my friends — no, I do not. I am open and honest with my friends ... perhaps too honest. It would have behooved me to play my transformation closer to the vest as I've done a lot of thinking out loud to these guys over the last few months as these concepts and behaviors have taken root and they've seen me stumble and push things too far at times as I've worked to find the optimum settings. The fact that I am so open about my transformation rattles their cage. These are the kind of guys who believe "be yourself" is good advice. It is when it means "absorb these concepts so your behavior is natural" ... but when it means "stay the same and hope for different results", it's not.

re: the lizard in question — their problems with her are related to:

(1) a single obnoxious incident where she was going through a emotional patch late one night and needed a place to vent so I invited her over (I got a *hell* of a bang out of it BTW) ... frankly the hottest girls are often the most volatile. That comes with the territory but these guys don't have the stomach for it ... I don't necessarily blame them; crazy bitches are an acquired taste but it's a flavor I enjoy.

(2) the fact that she's a professional escort, which makes no difference to me ... if anything it confirms the value of what I get for free (which is to say, in exchange for knowing how to strum her harp) and it means I have to stay extra sharp and in control to avoid getting played which gives me that stimulation that's often lacking in a garden-variety girl ... but to these White Knights prostitution is the ultimate disrespect for women and they won't allow a girl who engages in that line of work to come in our house ... not because they actually have any experience with sex workers of any kind but because they are prejudiced and afraid of something outside their comfort zone. (In hindsight, I never should have told them what this lizard does for a living but I wanted to brag about the pull — I'll have to charge that one to the game.)

I tried throwing it in their face by saying what if she was a stripper or a porn star and Mr. Natural White Knight — who got all fuckin' goggly-eyed the first time I brought this girl home — actually said with a straight face he wouldn't want that type of girl in our house either ... although homeboy who could use my help broke out in a big ass smile when I dropped that one.

I don't want to make this about a single lizard because what's one lizard? It's the fact that *my boys* want to hold me back that pisses me off. And since explaining this stuff to them isn't working, that leads me to only one conclusion: despite their good intentions, they simply do not understand me ... and that means I need to walk.

Luckily I got a buddy who is more receptive to this kind of lifestyle and supports my transformation who may have a room that just opened up in his place ... ironically a room formerly occupied by the only other female ever banned from our house — a bat-shit crazy Coyote Ugly bartender type who hands out blowjobs like handshakes. I'm grabbing a beer with this buddy tomorrow to float the idea of moving in with him at least on a temporary basis.

Ultimately, I need my own place.

To quote Keith Richards, sometimes you gotta walk before they make you run...

Post: #12

ok, so they're all ganging up on you. Step up to the plate, man. Turn themselves on each other. Have one-on-ones with each of them and bring up little annoyances of the others, especially when it comes to paying the bills, or having psycho friends who are loud and obnoxious.

Melt their group cohesion and take the reins

Post: #13

(02-13-2013 10:35 AM)WhiteFang Wrote:  But these friends are disturbed by these changes and want me to go back to the old me.

Jay-Z said it best:

"Everybody look at you strange, say you changed.

Like you work that hard to stay the same."

Post: #14

Hey WhiteFang, I enjoyed reading your story about your roommates etc

Good on you for being honest about your transformation to them. I also struggle sometimes to talk about the red pill thinking to some of my friends or acquaintances.

As to your decision, I think you have a few mutually exclusive options at this point:

1) Stay where you are and ignore your friends, keep things close to your vest
2) Stay with them and try to convert them or at least the one homeboy that is most receptive (then it will be 2 on 2 vs. 3 on 1)
3) Move out to your other friend's place. Will he be more "supportive"?
4) Move out on your own Asap and stop talking to your old buds about your conquests and red pill in general.


I think the best option would be 4), 3) and 2) in that order, depending on your finances and other factors.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

BTW, dating/banging a working girl is quite the thing, I have never been there personally, but you must be getting quite tight with your game, as these girls have generally the highest level of bitchiness and wanna get shit for nothing, I can imagine.

Post: #15

Thanks Gemini — I agree with your assessment of my options.

re: dating/banging working girls — this is my first experience with it but it's just an exaggerated version of swooping regular girls. Every guy they see is so entranced by her beauty/pussy that if you are immune to her power, you instantly become a prize in her eyes. And they deeply want someone to love them for who they are inside ... in fact they want it so much their emotional handles are some of the most clearly visible so it's just a matter of grabbing hold and steering her where you want her to go. It also doesn't hurt that 99% of the guys she sees are needle dicks who couldn't captivate a woman or properly fuck her to save their lives ... so once she takes the ride and you make her think she can have your soul, she wants you *bad*. The trick is remaining immune and in control because she is a professional manipulator of men and she will suck you in and use you for her purposes if you don't stay sharp.

Post: #16

Id start fucking with them, especially since they are inconveniencing your life and making you move. I would randomly start yelling and being more aggressive for the littlest things and put the whole house on defensive. It doesn't sound like they are friends, it sounds like they are jealous that your above them now and fucking way hotter girls.

Post: #17

Lol these guys sound lame as fuck.

Post: #18

Friends generally don't want you to succeed or change, at least not in a significant enough way that will change your friendship.

Point out that they are not being supportive of your choices, which means they are not being friends. You leave them the choice, either they get on board or don't, but either way you will be continuing forward, with or without them.

Post: #19

(02-13-2013 07:29 PM)houston Wrote:  Lol these guys sound lame as fuck.

No shit. If my housemates told me one of my girls was "banned" I'd laugh in their faces.

Whitefang - memorize these words "mind your own fucking business".

If these guys are your friends and the height of their lives is smoking pot and hanging out on the couch then you can easily reverse the script and tell them you're worried about them.

Also, I'm betting the gay kid manipulating the others.

Post: #20

Get your OWN spot if possible financially. If it's not then make $ until you can and bounce.

Would rather be friendless than deal with couch-sitting-videogame playing-white knighting-masturbating-going nowhere in life-stoners.

You are the average of your 5 closests friends. As you elevate in life it may be time to elevate your social circle. REAL friends will be happy for you.

Post: #21

Most of the above replies have nicely fleshed out the "don't let them drag you down" side, which I agree with. But I'd also add my thoughts on the flip side.

You're friends are not wrong. They have genuine concern for you and can see things you can't.

Just from your own words you are banging "lizards", showing no respect to women, quite aggressive, and LTRing a volatile whore. You're so focused on being a cooler / dominant / assertive player that you are likely losing some of the things that make you the good human being that they want to be friends with. They fear you are becoming an unfulfilled, shallow pussyhound who uses sex to cover up a basic lack of happiness with life. I'm not saying you are this guy, but that's the player trap and for whatever reason they feel you are falling into it.

I mean, you're LTRing a whore. Only in the PUA world could anyone think that is something to be proud of.

Let your friends keep you in touch with your humanity while you also up your game. Keep it all in balance.

Post: #22

(02-14-2013 11:04 AM)Krauser Wrote:  Most of the above replies have nicely fleshed out the "don't let them drag you down" side, which I agree with. But I'd also add my thoughts on the flip side.

You're friends are not wrong. They have genuine concern for you and can see things you can't.

Just from your own words you are banging "lizards", showing no respect to women, quite aggressive, and LTRing a volatile whore. You're so focused on being a cooler / dominant / assertive player that you are likely losing some of the things that make you the good human being that they want to be friends with. They fear you are becoming an unfulfilled, shallow pussyhound who uses sex to cover up a basic lack of happiness with life. I'm not saying you are this guy, but that's the player trap and for whatever reason they feel you are falling into it.

I mean, you're LTRing a whore. Only in the PUA world could anyone think that is something to be proud of.

Let your friends keep you in touch with your humanity while you also up your game. Keep it all in balance.

OK, Dr Phil — thanks for your insight into the situation. Would you like to hold hands and sing Kumbaya next?

I don't know if you've noticed or not but this community has its own jargon. Around here, we call girls lizards, talk about red & blue pills, count notches, etc. It's the coin of the realm.

As many of the other guys on here will attest, gaming girls leads to gaming life — overall life game is probably the single greatest success tool a man can possess. The ends justify whatever means are necessary.

I happen to think getting a girl that men pay to fuck to fuck you on the reg for free is a signal that you are crushing life. Anyone who feels otherwise ... frankly it's hard for me to relate to those people. Why wouldn't a man want to eat steak every night?

Sure, my friends are not wrong — from their perspective. And I think you are on-the-nose re: what their perspective is. But frankly I don't see things the same way and I told them as much and they're not listening to me. So fuck them.

Having genuine concern for me something I sincerely appreciate but the bottom line is this: I respect those who respect me.

Post: #23

^ Krauser is a pretty big time PUA WhiteFang, so I'm sure he knows the jargon etc.

Post: #24

Quote:I happen to think getting a girl that men pay to fuck to fuck you on the reg for free is a signal that you are crushing life.

No, it means you're dating a hooker.

Post: #25

Teedub & Krauser — No doubt. My point is that the language used when addressing an insular community like this is not necessarily indicative of how a person speaks IRL.

el mechanico — A true statement to be sure. But so what? As Asaxon pointed out above one of the fundamental principles of this community is that "human interactions are indeed exchanges of goods/ emotions". Legit whores are at least up front about it; most girls are oblivious to their own nature.