Post: #1

I ask because I was speaking with a businessman I met a few days ago. He was telling me he was getting his private pilot certificate and studying aviation and buying a used aircraft (about $200k) with a few friends.

It got me really interested. I already have a bachelors. But I could get that license and it could also work as a new source of income whenever I wanted to.

I'm gonna go and find more info on the aviations school in my area, but I wanted to know if anyone has any guidance on this topic.

Thanks

Post: #2

Long term private pilot here. Love the freedom, hate the overall expense.

I own a tiny share in a Cessna parked about 30 minutes from my home in Chicago. 2 of my partners are airplane mechanics who have access to better planes, so they mostly trade their time for their ownership dues.

It's far cheaper than renting by the flight hour, but is it worth it? I have no idea.

I have taken women on "dates" from Chicago to St. Louis or Milwaukee or Cincinnati. It's always something that sticks with them even after I've bailed from their lives.

But the downsides are plenty: forget about drinking ANY alcohol at your destination. Be aware of the ongoing costs even if you never fly. If you co-own, expect the best times to be unavailable. Try to partner up with a plane mechanic if you can (it'll cost you more in the short term).

The pilot's license is the cheapest part ($10k-$15k). The rest is considerably worse than the price of owning a boat, and you know the old adage: "The best part of boat ownership is the day you buy it and the day you sell it."

Post: #3

Longtime private pilot as well. Got it with dotcom money back in the 90s. Stopped flying a few years ago because I had too many close calls. If you can't afford to fly once or twice a week don't do it. Motorcycles work just as well for panty dropping and cost about a tenth as much.

Post: #4

I'm curious about the "close calls". I'm not a good flier....

Post: #5

Spotting other planes, especially in a busy environment, is a learned skill that you have to stay sharp on. The one that finally did it for me was not spotting a plane until they were within a hundred yards. Fortunately they were about 100 ft below me but it was still too close for me.

The other bad one was total electrical failure in instrument flight conditions. Fortunately that happened when I was still flying a lot and I handled it fine but if I'd been weak on my skills it could have been ugly.

Post: #6

Those small planes look dangerous...I usually try to have a couple beers and pass out for my flights.

Post: #7

I own a mid-size Jet. I have a license but I would never think of flying what I own. I have two pilots with ATP, type rated, and with tons of hours. If you don't fly often or as your day job it's too easy for a small problem to turn into something big.

Post: #8

When you say a new source of income, are you talking about flying your own aircraft for hire? You can't do that with a Private pilots license. Commercial license at minimum. Plus owning and flying your own plane for the general public means charter which means 135 certificate. Most jet owners will get a management company to charter their plane if they are wanting to offset some of the expenses. This means bringing the aircraft up to the standards required for 135 ops (inspection and maintenance program, pilot training program, faa inspections, records management, increased insurance requirements, the list goes on). Even if you're only talking about a small plane (single engine or twin), standards are basically the same just on a smaller scale. If you're talking about flying someone else's plane for hire, again.. Commercial license at minimum and you'll need plenty of hours and experience to be insurable. Most civilian pilots build these hours as instructors. You'll need private license, instrument rating, commercial license, CFI, CFII (instrument instructor), MEI (multi engine instructor if you plan in instruct in twins), Multi engine rating. ATP - airline transport (if you plan to fly professionally this will be your goal).

I fly Private Jets for a large fractional ownership company. Been a while since I've been around primary instruction so I'm not sure what flight schools are quoting. Be glad to answer any questions I can.

Post: #9

(02-19-2013 04:56 PM)ABDada Wrote:  Long term private pilot here. Love the freedom, hate the overall expense.

I own a tiny share in a Cessna parked about 30 minutes from my home in Chicago. 2 of my partners are airplane mechanics who have access to better planes, so they mostly trade their time for their ownership dues.

It's far cheaper than renting by the flight hour, but is it worth it? I have no idea.

I have taken women on "dates" from Chicago to St. Louis or Milwaukee or Cincinnati. It's always something that sticks with them even after I've bailed from their lives.

But the downsides are plenty: forget about drinking ANY alcohol at your destination. Be aware of the ongoing costs even if you never fly. If you co-own, expect the best times to be unavailable. Try to partner up with a plane mechanic if you can (it'll cost you more in the short term).

The pilot's license is the cheapest part ($10k-$15k). The rest is considerably worse than the price of owning a boat, and you know the old adage: "The best part of boat ownership is the day you buy it and the day you sell it."

(02-20-2013 09:27 PM)FlyLow Wrote:  When you say a new source of income, are you talking about flying your own aircraft for hire? You can't do that with a Private pilots license. Commercial license at minimum. Plus owning and flying your own plane for the general public means charter which means 135 certificate. Most jet owners will get a management company to charter their plane if they are wanting to offset some of the expenses. This means bringing the aircraft up to the standards required for 135 ops (inspection and maintenance program, pilot training program, faa inspections, records management, increased insurance requirements, the list goes on). Even if you're only talking about a small plane (single engine or twin), standards are basically the same just on a smaller scale. If you're talking about flying someone else's plane for hire, again.. Commercial license at minimum and you'll need plenty of hours and experience to be insurable. Most civilian pilots build these hours as instructors. You'll need private license, instrument rating, commercial license, CFI, CFII (instrument instructor), MEI (multi engine instructor if you plan in instruct in twins), Multi engine rating. ATP - airline transport (if you plan to fly professionally this will be your goal).

I fly Private Jets for a large fractional ownership company. Been a while since I've been around primary instruction so I'm not sure what flight schools are quoting. Be glad to answer any questions I can.

I mean. I got interested in it a few days ago when I met a businessman at Panama. He told me he loves to travel (same as me). He was going to take a Pilot course at a university where I live.

He told me he was thinking of buying a $200,000 plane with 4-6 friends. They would finance it to 30yrs. That it would be cheaper when he and all his friends wanted to go to South America. They just fly into a private airport and as they would pay the landing fees together so it would be much cheaper than all of them flying commercial. Which would run about 700-800 USD per person.

What do you think of that?

Post: #10

I mean. I got interested in it a few days ago when I met a businessman at Panama. He told me he loves to travel (same as me). He was going to take a Pilot course at a university where I live.

He told me he was thinking of buying a $200,000 plane with 4-6 friends. They would finance it to 30yrs. That it would be cheaper when he and all his friends wanted to go to South America. They just fly into a private airport and as they would pay the landing fees together so it would be much cheaper than all of them flying commercial. Which would run about 700-800 USD per person.

What do you think of that?
[/quote]

pre-ATP CFII/MEI here. i back up what Gringuito and FlyLow have to say.

Your friend's dreams are WAAAY too grand here. $200k gets you nothing but an ol' (maybe somewhat advanced if he's lucky) beater or one of those really small, light planes. then you have the fuel, hangering and maintenance costs, bleh.

i can't imagine any bank underwriting a loan for a beater like that.

their best bet is to set up a corp. to own the plane and have each partner "share" the plane for all costs (with a $ reserve) and (hopefully) leaseback it to some flight school that'll keep it in the air to pay it off for y'alls.

owning planes is one of the biggest headaches one can do to oneself. unless they plan to fly drugs?

Post: #11

$200k is a small plane but you can get an older single engine. Maybe an old bonanza or a cherokee 6 (think 1960's or maybe 70's model). I haven't checked lately on what they are going for. 4 passengers and bags usually means a 6 seat plane. If you want my opinion, someone going and getting their basic private pilots license to take the occasional international trip with their buddies is a dangerous recipe. The non professional pilot with a private license is much better suited for the weekend clear sky day of buzzing around the local area or short one hour trips. Thats not to say that there aren't private pilots that own their own plane and are obsessive about flying and know their limits and are perfectly safe for international trips.

Now as far as the expense.. if you're just looking to buy a plane thinking you can make trips cheaper than flying commercially. The short answer is not a chance. Doesn't matter if you divide it 4 ways. The exceptions are guys that own aircraft for business that fly all the time (usually hire pilots) that can write off the trips for business purposes. The next level is the type of clients that I fly. Extremely wealthy, their time is their asset.

Don't mean to pour cold water on the idea, just make sure you do your homework first and have realistic expectations. Owning a plane is extremely expensive. Acquisition cost is only the beginning. Last trip to antigua in the jet that I fly, the landing fees alone were almost $1000 (again its a citation XLS, not a single engine plane but its not going to be free no matter what you fly). Get your license because you love flying and really want to learn. There's nothing like flying, thats why I made a career out of it. Best of luck to you!

Post: #12

This gives you an idea of what you can get.
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?s-ty...=1&s-lvl=1

Post: #13

Funny you brought this up because a client of mine (stupid fuck you money $50mil a YEAR) loves to fly and owns 2 planes. Well after this past weekend in vegas he offered to teach me for FREE since he is commercial licensed and licensed to train.

I about shit myself because that's on my bucket list but figured it wouldn't be until I'm much older before I would have the opportunity.

Taking him up on the offer of course and will drop that line at the bar sometime: Yea, I have my pilot's license sweetheart.

Haha

Post: #14

Its amazing the pull being a pilot has. Truly amazing.

Post: #15

(02-27-2013 03:04 AM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  Funny you brought this up because a client of mine (stupid fuck you money $50mil a YEAR) loves to fly and owns 2 planes. Well after this past weekend in vegas he offered to teach me for FREE since he is commercial licensed and licensed to train.

I about shit myself because that's on my bucket list but figured it wouldn't be until I'm much older before I would have the opportunity.

Taking him up on the offer of course and will drop that line at the bar sometime: Yea, I have my pilot's license sweetheart.

Haha

you're being set up for an old pilot joke...

"the lesson's free; but you pay for the plane!"