Post: #1

redacted

Post: #2

One of my friends here at uni is a natural par excellence. Jacked, Germanic good looks, and a clinically diagnosed sociopath to boot - meaning he actually knows how to psychologically manipulate the girls he games. I don't know what his notch count is, but considering he's told me it's "stupidly high", and that he's been into the BDSM scene (and I mean actually into it) since age 14 I'd be willing to bet it's well north of 150/200+. He's currently in a no-shit threesome relationship with two girls at the moment. Lucky bastard, hahaha

HSLD

Post: #3

It seems like most naturals are good looking guys, thus they attract women easily, and therefore usually have a high level of confidence, are comfortable around women, and have a lot of reference experience to draw from, unlike an awkward less attractive guy who may have to go through a metamorphosis to improve his status with women.

Post: #4

To answer the question, yes I do know one natural who wasn't exactly the most text book alpha guy in terms of looks or presence, but did very well with women. He was my next door neighbor for a year in college and guy who was in my extended social circle, in a lot of ways he reminds me of the PUA Cajun, my buddy is a shorter dude (like 5 ft 8 in) who sort of looks like a less Jewish version of Jason Schwartzman. I think a lot of girls do think he's handsome despite being short and not built muscularly.

Any how looks aside the guy had good game, and in addition to good game he also had a certain look and niche (hipster musician) down solid, plus a certain element of swagger that went with it. I'd describe him as being very extroverted and a fun loving party animal type, who has no problem being the center of attention. He can be super friendly, but he can also be extremely arrogant and put off a douche bag vibe if he doesn't like you, or he thinks he's cooler than you, which is how he acted towards me.

There are things to be taken away from his game though, one thing that is a fact is that people who are extremely cocky and arrogant, usually come across as highly self-confident, which is obviously one of the most crucial factors for attraction with women. Personally I don't like cocky arrogant people and am trying to find my own groove with a chill and endearing form of confidence that still has dominance and presence, in humble kind of way, (if that makes any sense).

I'm a very much an introvert and while game and self improvement and sometimes alcohol have helped me break out of my shell, I think people who are true introverts will very rarely become true extroverts. People who are natural extroverts will always have a huge advantage when it comes to game, because in its essence a lot of game is being extroverted, making approaches, speaking to strangers, putting yourself out there.

Finally to wrap this up, my buddy had a lot of confidence, swagger, a certain look/niche, engaged in cool hobbies like music, and had no problem being extroverted, approaching, meeting people, and becoming the center of attention, and life of the party. I should note that the guy grew up in Lafayette and New Orleans to young liberal parents and kind of grew up in a culture with a lot of drinking and partying, which probably helped mold his personality in that way.

Post: #5

I know a natural. What's interesting is that he's also game aware and knows a lot of tactics. I find him difficult to relate to on the game front, though, because he's got an intuitive understanding of things whereas I had to learn things like escalation. He usually laughs when I tell I had to learn to escalate with women.

He's not a conventional alpha/natural: he's about 5'9, 225 pounds, black as hell, but he cleans up very well with women. He's the guy I think of when guys are like "OMG YOU HAVE TO BE 6'4, 200 POUNDS AT 5% BODY FAT TO PULL, OTHERWISE JUST GIVE UP."

He's very helpful when it comes to women. He runs a two-date bang recipe that I've been trying to emulate with some success.

While he can't exactly teach me his brand of game, what I draw from him are these points:

Don't give a fuck
assume the sale
push hard and don't apologize for your lust
Have fun.

The last point seems to be what he's great at. He just puts you in a good mood when you're chilling with him and he can ramble with the best of them.

Post: #6

I have some Natural friends, though some guys despute the myth of the Natural - it's more someone who learned to be very successful with women without learning any formal Game.

1. 6'3 very good looking guy who was chased since his early youth by girls (girls from his school came over to his house unannounced) and gets approached actively by 4-6s in clubs. Implements a lot of Game techniques, but his Game sky-rocketeted only after formal Game teachings.

2. 5'9 black guy - good looking, extremely charming, direct approach while being very "friendly" without looking creepy - it worked for him

3. 5'10 average looks, but extremely wealthy, grew up rich, partied hard, approached girls in clubs and at parties he hosted, became good with women due to the process learning many concepts naturally, cockiness and self-entitlement of deserving pussy was part of his makeup for a long time - probably mostly to the wealth and also intelligence which is somewhat weaponized for seduction (MENSA member) - since he is surrounded by 7s to 9s due to his high market value, he will only need Game in a LTR (and not surprising everytime he has a girlfriend he does a lot worse than in pure short-term seduction)

That said - I have not seen a Natural surpassing any man who has learned Game formally and in detail. I mean sure - there are some extremely good looking men who get laid often, but even those men I have seen hitting below their looks often while a PUA with his looks would work harder to bang the 8s and 9s he feels he deserves. The process of the Natural is a stony one - they are unconsciously competent and are still not comprehending why some things work and others don't.

Ultimately there is nothing that can replace conscious study and learning of Game and female psychology - that lack of understanding is only exacerbated when a Natural gets into a LTR or marriage.

Post: #7

The naturals I know are born extroverts thus approach anxiety is no problem. Born narcissists, with gigantic egos. Some have sociopathic tendencies like pathological lying and are higly impulsive.

Post: #8

Two natural friend of me (both claim 100+ notch count) are not that tall, maybe 5'9 (and living in the tallest country of the world).
They are good conversationalists and good teasers.

Post: #9

Honestly, I think naturals are the best players. That doesn't mean they can't be out done by a guy with a completely intellectual-based understanding of game, but I think some of the best players (maybe even the best) are guys who just "get it" without studying it. I know this sector of the net boasts some very awesome players, but I think there are guys out there with numbers that would dwarf that of even the most well-studied game users. It's just always been a part of their reality.

Think of a lot of the don Juans of history (perfio Rubirosas comes to mind), I don't think there is a player alive who is going to smash rich poon of that caliber on the regular like he did.

That said, I do agree that a learning game would make them "better" than they are now. it's a lot like a drum prodigy who never studied music (dennis chambers). They're amazing as they are, but with an in-depth knowledge of theory they would probably be truly untouchable.

I find that a lot of the naturals I know invariably fall into oneitis for some really mediocre chicks. It makes me think of a good friend of mine. He's tall, handsome and muscular but he's always getting into LTRs with chicks who are so mediocre but have better girl game than he does. I fear that he'll go through his entire life in LTRs with chicks who "pick him" instead of chicks that he picks, if that makes any sense. Since he doesn't have the knowledge aspect of game down girls are able to play on his insecurities and lock him down so easily, whereas if he were on this forum he's be like, "oh shit. I can totally play the field until I meet a chick with everything I require."

For some it is just not in the cards.

Post: #10

I knew two in university. One was a short (5'5") meaty Jewish guy. Super extroverted frat boy type, like the sort to have 3000 friends on facebook. Another was a built (6'3") Middle Eastern clubber, not super extroverted like the other guy, but very cool, outgoing, likeable personality - strong social skills.

Those were the late 2000s. In my opinion the state of the dating market has killed the 'legend' of the smooth charismatic ordinary looking guy who just goes with the flow and cleans up. Being a player today = Looks + Mental Fortitude to play an insane numbers game.

Post: #11

Me.

Post: #12

I knew 2 naturals in college, they could not be more different though - both physically and personality wise.

1. One was a typical muscular meathead with average IQ but had a handsome smile. He talks slow and is very masculine. Girls swoon over him, but that's not surprising at all. You'll spot him as a natural a mile away.

2. Another was a short 5'2" skinny Filipino who can't even speak in complete sentences. He is ADHD and gets distracted all the time, and talks basically gibberish to girls, but SOMEHOW girls get sucked into him like the biggest stars and entire solar systems get sucked into a raging black hole. Wouldn't dare introduce him to any girl i was dating at the time. His notch count is well into the hundreds and I still can't figure him out.

Post: #13

Being a "natural" -- don't really like the term, but I'll roll with it -- has nothing to do with how good a guy looks. There are plenty of good-looking men who haven't made it to the Major Leagues.

Having good looks just gives you more wiggle room when you make other mistakes and/or have other deficiencies. Furthermore, it affords you the opportunity to step to women without fear of getting blown out, but you still have to have the nerve to step -- not every good-looking guy does because he's insecure for other reasons.

However, the same can be said about a guy who just looks good -- good style, good presentation.

I'll say this, "naturals" are more likely to be guys who either grew up around a lot of players, usually uncles, older brothers, cousins, etc. or they grew up around a lot of women, which allowed them to see women in an uncut manner, which destroys the nonsense that society as a whole promulgates about them.

Post: #14

I know a few. Most are naturally good looking and naturally outgoing.

In fact, I'm now convinced that game is often genetic. Some people are just born with better social skills.

Game can also be environmental -- Some people grow up in an environment that fosters, creates, or demands social awareness and interaction.

Some guys get BOTH -- They are born with a genetic predisposition to being social and they are good looking and their environment encourages socialization with females.

(03-01-2015 06:08 PM)HighSpeed_LowDrag Wrote:  He's currently in a no-shit threesome relationship with two girls at the moment.

I'm going to try and start doing stuff like this.

I wouldn't be surprised if I became sort of a polygamist in the future. I just want to try it.

Post: #15

(03-02-2015 02:26 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I know a few. Most are naturally good looking and naturally outgoing.

In fact, I'm now convinced that game is often genetic. Some people are just born with better social skills.

Game can also be environmental -- Some people grow up in an environment that fosters, creates, or demands social awareness and interaction.

Some guys get BOTH -- They are born with a genetic predisposition to being social and they are good looking and their environment encourages socialization with females.

Yep, legit. I totally agree.

Post: #16

(03-02-2015 02:15 PM)jariel Wrote:  I'll say this, "naturals" are more likely to be guys who either grew up around a lot of players, usually uncles, older brothers, cousins, etc. or they grew up around a lot of women, which allowed them to see women in an uncut manner, which destroys the nonsense that society as a whole promulgates about them.

This matches my experience with naturals.

(03-02-2015 02:30 PM)civpro Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 02:26 PM)Giovonny Wrote:  I know a few. Most are naturally good looking and naturally outgoing.

In fact, I'm now convinced that game is often genetic. Some people are just born with better social skills.

Game can also be environmental -- Some people grow up in an environment that fosters, creates, or demands social awareness and interaction.

Some guys get BOTH -- They are born with a genetic predisposition to being social and they are good looking and their environment encourages socialization with females.

Yep, legit. I totally agree.

I believe it to be more a product of the environment, not genetic. Some of the best playas I know are actually NOT good looking. They are the ones you can learn from the most, though you can't find much of those types in the west because of the many complexes that come with being born and bred in the west (obsessions with height, skin tone etc.). I implore some of you to make a trip to the West Indies or Jamaica and observe the 'naturals' there, as well as look at the diversity in their ethnicites. They are the product of an environment that puts you on a pedestal for gaming women.

My chinese-caribbean friends that I grew up with on the streets are a completely different breed from their siblings/cousins on the mainland. They out-pull anyone when they go back to visit china.

The Syrians/Indians are some of the biggest players on the block.

You look left and right, everyone's pulling something, so you better get your share.

They are all socialized completely different from their generation prior. And it's as clear as day.

Post: #17

So much for lead by example.

WIA

Post: #18

I have a friend, I'll call him the Italian who I'd consider a natural. Kind of short, maybe slightly above average looking, with the gift.

He could talk his way right into a woman's panties. He was raised by old-school Italian family who were tough love on their kids. The men were mostly married but still were smooth. You can tell they got laid on the regular when they were younger.

This guy ended up with a gf of like 7 or more years later in life. She stayed faithful to him even though he obviously strayed heavily and he eventually married her. He always went his own way in life and was decisive and completely unapologetic about his mistakes. Real cool guy if you get to know him, but definitely polarizing. He had a knack for asking dead-personal questions as if it was no big deal and in such a disarming way that you just would feel compelled to tell him.

He was the guy in high school throwing alcohol fueled parties when his parents were out of town and getting laid left and right when I could barely muster talking to a girl as a friend.

I try to learn as much as I can from him in life and in business/sales.

Post: #19

Rugged Handsome Guy: One of my best friends fits this bill. Ex hockey pro. He doesn't have any concrete concept of game other than basics that he naturally fell into bangin tons of girls. Of course his sports status helped quite a bit, but he slays constantly and has built a life in every respect conducive to it well past the end of his hockey career.

And no shit he's got fucking 4 kids with an ex-wife who he cheated on constantly when with her. The secrets our group kept covering his ass were insane. Aloofness was a key component, mixed with looks, very sociable personality, and he's built like a beast too. Sure he worked at it, but everything came natural to him. We'll wing each other now and then, but as game teaches us, don't have a wing whose better looking than you are, and he's def got me beat by a solid point in looks, so most girls around us notice him first, then me.

I played drums in bands for years so both of us had minor fame cred that added to our notch counts. His of which is about 30-40% higher than mine. But what is most telling is the insane quality of the pussy he landed. Lots of 8s.. I'd stream 6s and 7s and occasionally 8s, he rarely had less than and 8 and many 9ish depending on your definition of a 9.

I'd travel and go see him play hockey games around the country here and there, and on every occasion he'd have a smokin broad running around his apartment wearing some skimpy shit, sometimes two, cleaning up from the previous night's party and fuck session. I remember once in Tennessee he had a Playboy model he was bangin, not a centerfold but another spread.. He goes;"Hey girl, show him your pics from last month.." She sits down next to me and start telling me how they shot each pic, as I asked sexual questions about it. Lol. A smokin ass blond. Needless to say, the fringe benefits from havin him as a friend have been priceless.

The odd part is how well he pulled it off without running tons of obvious asshole game, he actually was pretty nice to everyone, and the bitches just ate it up. Outside the failed marriage, this cat has done what he wants, whenever he wants, to whoever he wants most of his life since I've known him from junior year in high school.

Post: #20

My concept of what a natural is has changed over the years.

I've never really met anyone who was slaying pussy as a natural without leveraging other factors like status, looks, etc.

I used to say that I was a natural when I was younger but I really just had looks and a lot of status as a high school jock. Along with that status came the kind of swagger that we associate with being a natural. My ego was insane. I didn't know anything about game but I was racking up notches regardless.

Same thing goes for most of the other guys I have known who banged a lot of chicks without practicing game.

The most recent example is a bartender I worked with this past fall. He had a cult following. I saw him spit some slick game but he was the lead bartender at one of the biggest clubs in the city with height and looks to boot.

Funny thing is that he had an engineering degree but chose to bartend because of the lifestyle. There is no way he would have been slaying as much pussy working as an engineer, even with his natural game.

I agree that a natural is a product of the environment they choose to be in. Your level of game will skyrocket when you put yourself in a place where you are loving life and feeling the flow. Seems to be a common theme in most of the examples in this thread.

Post: #21

(03-01-2015 05:34 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I'm at some venue, trying to pull this half Asian chick. End of the night, she's feeling me, I'm feeling her...finally get the Asian flag? [b]Rugged AMOG's me.

She looks at me. She looks at him. She looks at me. [/b]

Somehow I let her go. *kicks self years later*

*makes mental note - 1) bulk up, 2) learn to lock in and bounce*


WIA

3)Get rid of your Amog "Friends" That's just some disrespect right there.

Post: #22

Good thread. I like to study naturals because, lets be frank, they 'naturally' have what everyone who is not a natural is trying hard to work towards.
The thing about naturals is getting women is effortless for them, it is no big deal and just a part of what life is supposed to offer them. They never stress about getting women, it is just expected that it will happen. No big deal

The best natural I know is a dude who just turned 50 and he has been slaying since I knew him over 15 years ago, and before that. He isn't a bad looking dude, like a poor man's paul newman, but he has this magnetic good-times personality that woman couldn't and still can't resist. He's shown me pictures of chicks he banged out and they were all 8+.

The 1 thing that always stands out about him is his unflappable self-confidence. He fully believes and loves himself, and never comes from a place of insecurity. During times of stress of pressure, instead of becoming anxious he becomes angry - who is a sign of a sociopathic alpha. I've always admired his ability to wake up in the morning and not have to meditate or talk to himself about being confident - it just is.

Honourable mention to another alpha who constantly banged chicks, not as hot as the dude above but this guy has ridiculous belief in himself and his ability to overcome obstacles. He has a really business life analytical nature, a great talker, great dry sense of humor and the most amazing thing is I've literally never seen him get angry or get his feathers ruffled. The sort of dude who emanates positivity and good vibes which is contagious. But by far the most impressive quality of this dude was his stamina. Persistence beats resistance. He would be the last man standing at the party, and I'd never seen anyone turn a chick giving him mad attitude to be banging her couple of hours later. It is a thing of beauty to see a caustic bitch shutting a dude down and only hours later him coming out of a room telling you he banged her.

The 1 thread common to both - unsurprisingly - total faith in self and zero...I mean...zero - insecurity. Takeways always was - do whatever it takes to believe in yourself & never resort to being insecure - nothing stinks worse on a dude than insecurity.

Post: #23

I think some aspects of Game are common knowledge that most men are aware of.

Girls like being teased.
Fashion and appearance are crucial.
Social proof and having a social circle.

Other stuff is harder to learn but is easy for Naturals

Approaching and approach anxiety
Reading IOIs and IODs
Making girls laugh
Persistence, overcoming LMR
Gyming
Kino escalation

Post: #24

(03-03-2015 09:34 AM)Pride male Wrote:  Reading IOIs and IODs

What is an IOD?

Post: #25

(03-03-2015 09:36 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 09:34 AM)Pride male Wrote:  Reading IOIs and IODs

What is an IOD?

Indicator/Indication of Disinterest.

IOI - Indicator of Interest

WIA