Post: #1

In this thread I will explain how to get rich. Personally, I got rich by writing posts on this forum, selling an e-book, and becoming a dating coach. Straight cash, homie!

Haha, yeah fucking right...

Making money is a lot like game. The first rule is you actually have to try, rather than hope.

Here's how it actually works:

Step 1 - Stop Wasting Money on Stupid Shit. Profit = income - expenses. Simple, right?

Your average dude makes $50k - $75k. Then he buys a car and make payments on it, a big house, a 70 inch TV, cable television, dinners out, designer clothes, etc. Oh, and a wife who wants her own car, and kids. Can't afford something? Credit cards!

If you make $100k in a year and spend $90k, you've made $10k. If you make $60k in a year but spend $30k, you've made $30k. Stupid shit adds up - Netflix, Cable, Starbucks every morning, etc. I can't tell you how many people I represent that make six figures yet live paycheck to paycheck.

I drive an old truck that looks cool (no payments), I don't have cable, and even though my mortgage payment is low I Air B&B my place out from time to time. When I leave the house, I turn off the lights and the heat, because it's the difference between a $40 electric bill and a $140 electric bill. I don't have any credit card debt (Credit cards are only good if you can get free airline miles and pay them off right away. Otherwise, avoid).

I'm not saying to never do anything or take vacations. I go out to lunch almost every day of the week and take lots of vacations. I've also structured my lifestyle in a way that allows me to do these things without much of a financial impact.

The goal is to accumulate as much cash as possible, especially when you're young. Don't live paycheck to paycheck. Cash in the bank is true security, and freedom.

Step 2 - Get a Real Job That Makes Money. Some jobs that make money and are worth getting an education for? Engineer, lawyer, accountant, architect, dentist, doctor, computer programmer, database monkey, IT, etc. Some other jobs that make decent money and don't require a formal education? Electrician, plumber, the military, contractor, etc.

There is nothing demeaning about entering the skilled trades. Some of the wealthiest dudes I know, who make a lot more money than I do despite all my education, didn't go to college.

I wouldn't focus your career on what you're passionate about. Teachers and social workers make okay money but rarely crack six figures, making it hard to become serious about investing. Instead, you can do something that generates a higher income, and mentor kids on the side or something, if that's what you want to do. It's hard to be serious about investing when you're not making enough money to pay for your basic necessities. $30k - $45k is just enough money to pay your bills, but little else. You need to be generating about $75k a year to pay your bills and have money left over to do stuff with. Add some student debt into the mix and you're fucked.

Outside of professional trades (business, engineering, healthcare, finance, technology, accounting, etc.), a college degree is mostly worthless. If you forego a formal education to enter a trade or start a business, more power to you. You're way better off than someone who has $100k in debt and a degree in Feminist Studies, now working at Starbucks.

Art, music, philosophy, creative writing, etc. are all great things, but you can do them on the side once your affairs are in order, and without going into debt. Personally, I'm passionate about writing and teaching. I run one of the most successful legal blogs in the country because writing is what I enjoy. That's why I start these threads. However, it's a side hobby, and something I'm able to do because my other ventures are financially lucrative.

Step 3 - Start a business. The reason I recommend "professional" jobs is because it's relatively cheap, and comparatively lucrative, to open your own practice. I wasn't creative or smart enough to create an app like Uber, so I started a law practice. It makes decent money, and it gives me enough flexibility to do other things because I don't have to answer to anyone except my clients. It's not Dan Bilzerian money, but making $200k a year from your business is better than the teacher who makes $45k a year, and has to physically be somewhere 40+ hours a week. Professionals in private practice make about $150k - $350k a year. In addition, many of these professional skills are also useful. I like never having to pay for legal representation if I don't want to.

That said, there are a lot of businesses that make money - jewelry stores, cigar shops, car washes, corner markets, you name it. I wasn't clever enough to get into any of these businesses, though I represent a lot of them, and they make more cash than I do, believe it or not. Businesses are the best way to make money, contribute to society, and have flexibility.

Running a business isn't rocket science. Boiled down, you need to get the work, do the work, and then count the money. Eventually you can get people to do all of these functions for you.

Once your business is successful, you can hire people to work for you, which frees up your time to...

Step 4 - Invest money. In my view, real estate is still the best and most failproof way for regular people to get wealthy. I bought my first property for $119k at short sale, and sold it about 7 years later for $240k. While I sat on it, tenants paid the mortgage. Yeah, I had to do some unsexy, unlawyerly work like lay floors, expose brick (that was a fucking bitch), fix toilets, and lay tile, but hey I'll take $120k.

I don't do the stock market, but I'm sure there are other bros on here who do and make money at it. My legal practice is mostly real estate - I don't recommend investing until you actually understand how the market works. I don't do the stock market because it's outside what I know about.

That said, you'll never become a millionaire saving $2k a year for 10 years for retirement. The only real way to make a lot of money is to smartly invest it into things that will make you money. Even if you are a professional making $200k a year, and save $200k, that's basically 4 years of retirement. Instead, invest your money, create passive income streams, and develop wealth. That BMW might look cool, but in 5 years it's worth less than half of what you paid for it.

Required reading: The Richest Man in Babylon. Gary Keller's "The Millionaire Real Estate Agent." Think and Grow Rich. David Ramsey's Total Money Makeover. Tony Robbin's Unlimited Power (all his books are worth reading). Gorilla Mindset by MikeCF. The E-Myth.

And now for the rest of the day I'll be swinging a hammer and hanging sheetrock today. Because bricks and sticks is where the money is at.

Your mileage may vary.

Post: #2

Good stuff.

I love real estate. Such an undervalued way to make good money. I'd like to add to your list of books "The Millionaire fastlane" by MJ DeMarco. Fantastic book for people wanting to start a business.

Post: #3

This is good, but needs to be in the Lifestyle Subforum.

Post: #4

I'd like to add my 2 cents.

All you guys still in school, finish it and make sure you've at least got some education degree you can rely on when things don't turn out the way you wished for. I don't know how strict US employers are about having some sort of degree/education, but in The Netherlands and the majority of Europe you're basically 'fucked' without any more than a highschool diploma.

Ofcourse there's always exceptions, but in that case better make sure of having a above average trackrecord/skillset.

Post: #5

It's like Hank takes the same ideas, beliefs, and thoughts that I have, but expresses them a hundred times better. I see a lot of myself in all of his posts.

Post: #6

I think careers, or even part-time careers in real estate can be really promising if you're looking to make money. For financial services, what with house prices rising, people will be coming to you for help - whilst the basic salary may be low, the commissions can be huge. During times when housing bubbles burst, people will still be coming to you for advice on their next moves.

If you just want some money on the side then consider letting properties, especially in university towns and cities. The house I rent with 4 other people I pay £4.5k for a year, including bills. As a whole house we therefore pay £22k. It's an okay property, with some nice features, but the cash a few of these houses rake in must be large.

The only problem would be trying to gain a foothold in an already saturated market - usually in smaller towns the housing market is an oligopoly of three or four firms. But surely having only a few properties with some tenants in could give someone a nice bit of cash on the side.

Post: #7

I think people have different takes on what being rich is. My idea of rich wouldn't be attainable the way Hank laid it out. One of the reasons I left a 500k a year contracting gig to start my own business.


I loved my years in real estate. I mainly dealt with foreclosures. I did a lot of short sales and bank negotiations. It was a full time job to find these people, get them to work with me and then try to work something out with the banks. Then again, I was only interested in houses that had a big potential payout when I bought.

Post: #8

I'm in the same career as Hank but in Litigation and live the same way. It really does wonders to live way below your means. You can be absolutely set by the time you are 35 if you do just that. Imagine the Electrician who saved 30k on average for 15 years. Fair chance he'd be a millionaire or close to it if he made some good investments.

The problem I see with the legal profession is it takes a long time to become a lawyer so it's not an ideal career for someone to retire exceptionally early because of the length of education + debt load.

If you can make $50,000 without working in a lot of countries you'd live exceptionally well. Much better than people live in the US who make 500k and are busy supporting 2 ex-wifes and 4 kids.

If you want to make absolute bank become a Dentist. I've met a lot of lawyers who do "ok". I've never met a Dentist who did "ok."

Of my friends the most asset rich are all guys who started trade oriented businesses. The guys with the high incomes are in the financial industry. I'd much rather have wealth than high income. If you go to school for 6 years whereas the trades guy did 1 year. He has 5 years of saving ahead of you. By the time you are done school he could conceivably be $300,000 ahead of you as you will be negative and he could be worth 150k+. Thats a lot of ground to make up if you want to retire early. Sure by 60 the lawyer may very well be worth a fair bit more but have you looked at the lives of 50+ year old man in this country. For most of them their existence despite having a ton of money is extremely boring.

My dad and his immediate friends are all of that age and most of them are in 2-50 million net worth range. They all seem bored as fuck all the time and are whipped by woman who are twice the size they were when they got married. Thats what there 30+ years of working their assess off gets them?

Now look at the 50 year old guy you see in the 3rd world who many would deem a "loser" in North America. Lots of those guys are smiling and having the times of their lives with eye candy that is half their age. Meanwhile they are living on 1/10th the money of the rich guys back home in the good ole USA.

Imagine having 1 million at 35 and living in Thailand, DR, Phillipines, Colombia etc. I'd be a lot more jealous of you than the guy flaunting his new C-Class Mercedes that he just pissed away 50k on.

You'll see me at 35 with the biggest smile in the room. I won't have a lambo or a 10,000 square foot waterfront home. But I'll be free to do what I want when I want. I'll likely be in Cuba sipping a Mojito with a 20 year old triguena ballerina. Meanwhile back home my friends will be buying homes with white picket fences and an over the hill woman who will divorce them with 10 years and they'll be paying a couple grand in child support + spousal monthly.

Post: #9

I have got to say Hank, that was a cool thread.

Post: #10

I'd recommend Gary Keller's other book The Millionaire Real Estate Investor instead of agent, unless you want to be a realtor of course.

Other books I'd recommend:

- The complete guide to Real Estate finance for investment properties
- Frogs into Princes

And the most important book I've ever read
- Self-discipline in 10 days- How to go from thinking to doing.


That book completely changed my life. If you have a hard time with procrastination or self-discipline, this book will change your life.

Post: #11

While we're talking about money, I'll also inject a little bit of game into it...

Women are a depreciating asset. Unlike a fine wine or a parcel of real estate, they don't get better or more valuable with age. They get fatter and develop wrinkles around their eyes. The woman you married in her 20s is going to look very different in her 30s. Even more so after having a few kids.

Marriage and family is the biggest investment you'll ever make, with one of the lowest returns on investment. If you go that route, do it wisely.

Some guys are in a rush to marry the first girl they have sex with. Then in their late 20s or early 30s, they find that it's virtually impossible to save money because they're paying the mortgage on a big house, putting food on the table for 3 kids, paying for private school, and the wife just spent $300 on a handbag because she's "stressed out." Now the wife is complaining that you came home from work late, and she's mad because you're not really interested in talking with her about the last season of Desperate Housewives or what the cat did while you were away.

You want out, or more commonly, she wants out? Unfortunately, the law is extremely favorable towards women in the event of a divorce. Expect to pay spousal support, alimony, and child support for a long time. And while you can divorce your wife, you can't divorce your kids. Some divorces play out over the span of many years, too.

What's more is that the price of poon has dropped dramatically. In the olden days, you had to commit to a woman in order to get sex. But in this day and age, casual sex is widely available thanks to Tinder, OkCupid, and Third Wave Feminism. When you get married, you're essentially overpaying for a widely available depreciating asset.

If you want to spend your 20s and 30s living paycheck to paycheck supporting a wife and three kids, by all means, it's your choice. But if your goal is to get wealthy, I'd consider starting a family very carefully.

Post: #12

Interesting thread.
A simple formula to get rich requires building capital to invest and TIME. Not easy if you can't get a profession that pays you enough to create savings and you're old. If you weren't lucky to be born in a 1st world country, most likely you'll spend 90% of your salary in rent+food.

If you don't want to sell drugs (if you're a man) and prostitute yourself (if you're a woman), move to a developed country.



As mentioned, working as a plumber, electrician, etc might pay enough to create savings but usually the people who follow those professions are likely illiterate. They'll spend 100% of his paycheck and won't save a dime. And when the bank offers him a loan, the fucker don't think twice. He doesn't care about interest, only how much he'll pay monthly. People should learn finance at school.


If you don't understand finance, real estate can be a great ally. My aunt bought apartments during her life. Having 5 apartments to retire gave her a comfortable life. Lived in one, rented the rest.
If you don't have an extra apartment or rent a place, rent that extra room to a student who works also (he'll spend the whole day out and won't bother you).

I don't think it's the time to buy real estate, stocks, etc. But people should start investing ASAP. If you have $20k in the bank sitting there, soon you'll find a place to spend it (be it booze, hookers or a trip to Ukraine). You'll never be able to buy real estate with that. But you can buy REIT stocks that pay you 4-5%/year.

With $240k you'll make a $1000/monthly. That's enough to live above average (compared to the locals) in many places including Colombia. If you have a house in US, you might sell it, buy REIT stocks and live from the dividends. Imagine all the girls you could bang.

Post: #13

As for the trades:

Yeah a friend of mine has his own construction contracting business, makes around 15k / month, so around 180k/ year - the business is still very small, it's basically just him. He could definitely grow the business further. But you also have to consider the the work & lifestyle, the gets up around 5.30am in the morning and goes to bed around 10pm, and it's very physical work, he told me that he feels like she work takes a tool on his body. So yeah the $$ is good, but I'm not sure if I would like to have the lifestyle.

Post: #14

(01-17-2016 09:01 AM)Ice Wrote:  As for the trades:

Yeah a friend of mine has his own construction contracting business, makes around 15k / month, so around 180k/ year - the business is still very small, it's basically just him. He could definitely grow the business further. But you also have to consider the the work & lifestyle, the gets up around 5.30am in the morning and goes to bed around 10pm, and it's very physical work, he told me that he feels like she work takes a tool on his body. So yeah the $$ is good, but I'm not sure if I would like to have the lifestyle.

Is that profit or turnover? Big difference. 15k a month is a fuckload of profit for a one man band construction company.

Post: #15

Nice thread.

The challenge is finding a balanced lifestyle in which you enjoy your money in the short-term and plan for the long-term.

I know men who live well below their means but don't have a passport and haven't enriched themselves through varied experiences because it costs money. They may be in a better financial situation, but they don't fully live in the present.

I have made some unwise decisions like buying a BMW some years ago, but I never regret splurging on seeing the world. It isn't easy to find that balance. I don't derive the same satisfaction out of some of the items my friends do like a big screen TV, 1000 cable channels, or the newest phone. It is all a matter of prioritizing what is important.

Post: #16

First, you never defined what "rich" is. Are you talking about income or net worth? IMHO the best way to have a net worth so high you never need to work again in your life is: business ownership. You need to leverage time. When you own a business, a part of the work of each of your employees is going into your pocket. If you know what you're doing, the bigger the company, the bigger the profits, the more that goes to you. And if you're really good you can sell the company and never need to work again.

It seems that many people have made money with real estate, that's not my business so I can't speak to that. But working for someone else just gives a good chunk of the profits you're generating to your boss/company owner.

Post: #17

(01-17-2016 09:24 AM)roberto Wrote:  

(01-17-2016 09:01 AM)Ice Wrote:  As for the trades:

Yeah a friend of mine has his own construction contracting business, makes around 15k / month, so around 180k/ year - the business is still very small, it's basically just him. He could definitely grow the business further. But you also have to consider the the work & lifestyle, the gets up around 5.30am in the morning and goes to bed around 10pm, and it's very physical work, he told me that he feels like she work takes a tool on his body. So yeah the $$ is good, but I'm not sure if I would like to have the lifestyle.

Is that profit or turnover? Big difference. 15k a month is a fuckload of profit for a one man band construction company.

Yeah I'm pretty sure he makes at least 10-12k profit per month. Maybe even 15k.

But he is based in Switzerland, the wages are extremely hight there.
Wages in Switzerland are on average 2-4 times higher than in Germany.

Post: #18

I've got a friend that earns more than that at a IB in Switzerland.

He says he's poor.

It's all relative.

Post: #19

(01-17-2016 03:53 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  I've got a friend that earns more than that at a IB in Switzerland.

He says he's poor.

It's all relative.

Yeah definitely. It depends on the environment you're in. The guy who works at the IB surely knows many people who have millions in the bank. At the end of the day you want to have "decent" cash and be free to travel and/or set your own schedule.

I personally find Switzerland very boring, if you work in IB and work 14 hours a day and have very little holidays, I would still find it pretty frustrating, even though the $$ is very good. But there are some people who love Switzerland, so for them it's different.

Post: #20

(01-16-2016 11:27 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  You'll see me at 35 with the biggest smile in the room. I won't have a lambo or a 10,000 square foot waterfront home. But I'll be free to do what I want when I want. I'll likely be in Cuba sipping a Mojito with a 20 year old triguena ballerina. Meanwhile back home my friends will be buying homes with white picket fences and an over the hill woman who will divorce them with 10 years and they'll be paying a couple grand in child support + spousal monthly.

Post: #21

(01-16-2016 11:27 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  My dad and his immediate friends are all of that age and most of them are in 2-50 million net worth range. They all seem bored as fuck all the time and are whipped by woman who are twice the size they were when they got married. Thats what there 30+ years of working their assess off gets them?

The mistake these men made was getting married and spending their money for their wives to keep up with the Joneses. It seems like they did very well from a money point of view. Don't you think your dad's group of friends also included guys that left for Colombia/Russia/Asia? You don't know about these guys because they "disappeared" over the years.

It seems like having a net worth of 2-50 million if you're single is pretty good. You could go to Moscow and be driven around in a chauffeured Bentley with your Russian ballerina.

Post: #22

(01-18-2016 11:16 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  

(01-16-2016 11:27 PM)lavidaloca Wrote:  My dad and his immediate friends are all of that age and most of them are in 2-50 million net worth range. They all seem bored as fuck all the time and are whipped by woman who are twice the size they were when they got married. Thats what there 30+ years of working their assess off gets them?

The mistake these men made was getting married and spending their money for their wives to keep up with the Joneses. It seems like they did very well from a money point of view. Don't you think your dad's group of friends also included guys that left for Colombia/Russia/Asia? You don't know about these guys because they "disappeared" over the years.

It seems like having a net worth of 2-50 million if you're single is pretty good. You could go to Moscow and be driven around in a chauffeured Bentley with your Russian ballerina.

Thats fair. Some of the guys seems to make "business trips" frequently. Another one of them moved to Western Europe. Another one moved to Miami. I just don't know any of his friends who became Expats in a low cost of living place although I wouldn't be surprised if he has friends who disappeared over the years as you suggested.

As a side note the ones who do really well are the ones in industries that are not sexy. None of the really rich guys I've met / know are Corporate guys.

Year over year the corporate guys seem to make a lot income wise but they pay a ton of tax and typically can't grow their income at the pace of the guys running their own businesses.

I make significantly more with my own legal practice than I did as an employee yet pay pretty much the same amount of tax. Go figure.

A lot of the trade guys who end up with high assets are very leveraged. They are able to do what I'll term projects and use their own guys to do it. It creates a situation where in terms of net worth they can grow it very rapidly but a lot of them would be very exposed if a US type housing crash were to occur.

Post: #23

With respect, $200k per year is a very long way from rich. You'd need to make significantly more than that here in the UK to send your child to a decent school, live in a modest house, run a couple of cars, and go on holiday once or twice a year.

I'm not saying to hate on you, you've obviously got a lifestyle that brings you plenty of happiness and well being, and that is what we are all aiming for. I have tremendous respect for that, and don't personally ascribe completely to the view that money is the best measure of success.

However, for those aiming to get rich, money is a means of keeping score, and for anyone serious about it, $200k/annum would be regarded as the worst case scenario 'if everything went badly wrong and I took big risks and never got rich, at least I could always make £100k/year' level of money.

Again, in many ways the way of life you advocate is more appealing than scrabbling up the greasy pole. But in the eyes of anyone who is rich, you are off their radar you're so poor. There are guys making more than that as associates in IBs.

Post: #24

I'm not getting some of the comments here. Half a million a year, or maybe even a lot more than that, means shit if you have some stay at home mom wife, three kids in private school, an upside down mortgage, car payments, taxes, credit cards, and alimony and child support from a previous marriage. Many, many people making minimum wage are doing better than many people who earn six figures. If you think I'm joking, stop and think about it a little. Now, if you are making $200,000, but have no debts, no mortgage, no wife, no kids, no credit cards, no student loans, no car payment, and are overall careful with your money, you can easily be a millionaire in under ten years and easily be a multimillionaire in under twenty years. What percentage of people anywhere are multimillionaires? Mayweather's retired, so bet on Golovkin. I wonder how many people will follow my advice.

Post: #25

(01-18-2016 04:57 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  I'm not getting some of the comments here. Half a million a year, or maybe even a lot more than that, means shit if you have some stay at home mom wife, three kids in private school, an upside down mortgage, car payments, taxes, credit cards, and alimony and child support from a previous marriage. Many, many people making minimum wage are doing better than many people who earn six figures. If you think I'm joking, stop and think about it a little. Now, if you are making $200,000, but have no debts, no mortgage, no wife, no kids, no credit cards, no student loans, no car payment, and are overall careful with your money, you can easily be a millionaire in under ten years and easily be a multimillionaire in under twenty years. What percentage of people anywhere are multimillionaires? Mayweather's retired, so bet on Golovkin. I wonder how many people will follow my advice.

There are two main ways to build wealthy. One way is to reduce your spending as much as possible and save your income over a period of time. This will yield 7 figures after many years. This is a less risky approach as you can control your spending and saving.

The other way is via taking large risks. This would include starting a business, leveraged investing, real estate, etc. This is much less likely to be successful but the returns can be much larger and much quicker.

Which approach is up to each person. I took the second road, and it worked out.