Post: #1

I am posting a poll and a few thoughts on the issue of Friendship versus Political Ideology.

There are posters who said that they will sacrifice a friendship, if the friend in question is a rabid anti-Trump, fanatical pro-Sanders supporters. They claim that the issue is about a worldview and a certain psychology of seeing things.

To quote Fisto.

(03-12-2016 03:52 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Then again, a guy I highly respected and someone I considered a good friend is irrationally hateful towards Trump, and is so annoyingly pro socialist Sanders that I'm considering ending the friendship.

I was genuinely surprised by this.

I consider all the immeasurable times that good friends have been there for me. I have a very difficult time throwing a good friendship away because that friend, belief in an ideology i consider morally and philosophically bankrupt.

I had two good friends when i was growing up in a third world country. There were some lean times, to such an extent that we have zero to eat. Absolutely no food whatsoever. If you know about 3rd world countries, there are no soup kitchens, or homeless shelter like you have in USA. Two of my friends will secretly helped me steal foods, etc. that was how my brothers and I were able to survive for a couple of months. If caught stealing foods, the penalty is severe, e.g. cutting your hands off.

If perchance, these two friends are either Bernie Sanders supporters or Feminists or Donald Trump supporters, i will personally find it extremely difficult to end such a friendship over political worldview.

To me the issue is even deeper than that.

Watching the tv series of The Man in the High Castle and reading stories of German soldiers during WW2. A lot of them STRONGLY disagree with the actions of the SS(shutzstaffel) and the Nazi party. But at the same time, they had a strong sense of duty and love for their fatherland(Deutchland); hence they fight and gave their lives.

The tension between duty or love and personal beliefs. Will you end a relationship because of personal political beliefs? What if that relationship is your family member?

Top quote RVF member, eskimobeal

(03-12-2016 05:07 PM)eskimobobseal Wrote:  My brother is a Hillary supporter who despises Trump.

We don't talk.

Also, RVF member YossariansRight went into more detail.

(03-12-2016 05:05 PM)YossariansRight Wrote:  I have 100% cut off family and friends over politics.

I cannot relate to people that have a diametrically opposite perspective on the world than I do nor will I waste my time listening or dealing with them anymore than I absolutely have to, which in the case of a few folks, is zero.

Will you betray your country for political, ideological reasons? Are you a traitor if you do so? What if you are absolutely certain(and you are also right) that the other country will bring in a great neomasculinity renaissance, will you betray USA for that country?

Choosing your duty over personal beliefs and feelings is very difficult thing to put value on. I looked at this video on the Donald Trump thread, showing the Secret Service moving very fast and using their body to shield Donald Trump.





Who knows what their beliefs are? It could be Hillary or Bush or Sanders or whatever, they will still react the same way. Willing to use their bodies as bullet shields for another person, simply because it is their duty. They prioritize their duty over their political ideology.

To be honest, i was genuinely surprised by Fisto's post, and apparently his views are shared by other RVF members reaction

(03-12-2016 04:48 PM)eskimobobseal Wrote:  Yes, I would. I have no room in my life for people who support communism.

(03-12-2016 04:46 PM)Aristotle Wrote:  Not speaking for him, but for me, it's not about politics. It's about worldview and philosophy. Socialism is a fundamentally broken worldview.

It's basically saying: "I don't want to work. I want you to be a SLAVE and give me the fruits of your labor."

It's ironic that many African-american voters now want everyone else to be their slaves, albeit in an indirect way. Perhaps history has come full circle.

Everyone is responsible for themselves. I don't owe you or anyone else anything. There are churches and charities for those in need. The government has no business giving away taxpayer money to people who are too lazy to work.

THAT is the issue with Bernie supporters, not the politics.

(03-12-2016 03:52 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I can't be friends with hopelessly blue pill twits after a certain point. Is that extreme?

I wonder how much I want to be good friends with someone that wants to hand over the keys to the kingdom to a weak old man who's never had a real job yet had 6 figure income for decades and isn't worth a pile of shit.

I wonder if I want to be friends with someone who think BLM has a legitimate grievance and Mexicans should be able to come over here unchecked.

As you can see, it's far more than a candidate, it's about integrity and values.

Maybe I'm just an extreme person and I'm fine with that.

My own personal view is summarize thusly: Tide comes and goes... really good friends is all we have, through all the wax and wanes.

--Dr. Kahn

Post: #2

I voted no, but only because I haven't had conflicts with friends/family as serious as the ones listed in this thread. Even if these people disagree with me, they're never so fanatical that it would escalate so much.

Post: #3

I don't want to hamsterize it here but I don't unfriend people over their gay political beliefs, they usually unfriend me.

Granted, I only have eight or nine really good friends and have known them since grade school. Unsurprisingly nobody cares about each others politics.

Post: #4

It's very simple. If a person cannot rationally discuss political differences without having a meltdown, then he wasn't friend material to began with. They will unfriend themselves from me, I simply search for the truth and it's not my problem if they hate truth.

Post: #5

I generally try to avoid the topic of politics with friends. But I have a handful of facebook "friends" who post a nonstop barrage of socialist, SJW nonsense, dripping with smugness and irrational hatred for anyone who disagrees in the typical SJW way. That kind of shit I can't forgive.

PS- I'm far from a leftist, but I don't support Donald Trump either. I don't think it's safe to assume on this forum that everyone is a Trump fan.

Post: #6

Like attracts like, you're the average of the five guys you hang out most with.

I don't have to agree politically with all my friends, but at the very least I want them to be on or near my level and to share some common interests.

One of my best friends is a Berniebro. It doesn't matter though, because at the end of the day we still go to the gym, get shitfaced at the bar, play videogames and sports without bringing up politics at all.

Faggots come in all shapes and sizes, there's definitely a trend with respect to your political beliefs but it's not an absolute rule. I figured out how to make friends when I could walk and talk and I didn't need some political questionnaire to figure out who was cool and who was a fucking weasel.

Post: #7

(03-12-2016 06:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  It's very simple. If a person cannot rationally discuss political differences without having a meltdown, then he wasn't friend material to began with.

Excellent point. It's incredible how many people fashion themselves "intellectual" and "open-minded," yet lose their shit when presented with information that challenges their existing worldview.

Post: #8

(03-12-2016 06:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  It's very simple. If a person cannot rationally discuss political differences without having a meltdown, then he wasn't friend material to began with. They will unfriend themselves from me, I simply search for the truth and it's not my problem if they hate truth.

So you are saying that if a person reacts in a strongly emotional manner, in defense of a worldview or concepts they believe in, then they are not worthy of friendship? That is part of your criteria for determining friendship?

I can see the opposite interpretation: That because the person exhibits such strong emotional reaction in defense of belief systems-- that this is who they are-- they fight for their belief system. Whatever that belief system happens to be, either it is Trump or helping you when you are down.

Of course it is a complicated issue: A person can notoriously cheat on his wife and still be vehemently loyal to his country or vice versa. One does not negate the other.

Your worldview seems anemic to me, for the simple fact that everybody, regardless of how illiterate, have some rudimentary, personal concepts of human sociology(the foundations of politics) which they will be very passionate about if you poke them enough.

--Dr. Kahn

Post: #9

Most of my friends get their info on Trump through the evening news, so they're naturally averse to him.

I don't openly advertise that I'd vote for him if I were American, but if the discussion is broached among friends I usually voice my support for the God Emperor. Initial reaction is always "OMG WTF bruh", then some discussion that quickly gets too heady for them, and they drop it. It's never affected relations with friends or family negatively.

Then again, I'm in a Nordic country and it's not an election of ours, even though American elections have far greater impact on the world than any other. People here should care more is my point of view.

Post: #10

Character is not intelligence. Although as human beings, we tends to instinctively conflate the two. Genuine friendship is based on character, not intelligence.

Of course, some people simply cannot even associate with somebody of lower intelligence or class or looks, let alone be their friends.

--Dr. Kahn

(03-12-2016 06:57 PM)Delta Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 06:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  It's very simple. If a person cannot rationally discuss political differences without having a meltdown, then he wasn't friend material to began with.

Excellent point. It's incredible how many people fashion themselves "intellectual" and "open-minded," yet lose their shit when presented with information that challenges their existing worldview.

Post: #11

Friends who don't vote for Trump:

I could care less who my friends vote for or what their political beliefs are. If they're my friends there's real world reasons for it, as opposed to "beliefs".

Post: #12

(03-12-2016 04:46 PM)Aristotle Wrote:  Not speaking for him, but for me, it's not about politics. It's about worldview and philosophy. Socialism is a fundamentally broken worldview.

It's basically saying: "I don't want to work. I want you to be a SLAVE and give me the fruits of your labor."

It's ironic that many African-american voters now want everyone else to be their slaves, albeit in an indirect way. Perhaps history has come full circle.

Everyone is responsible for themselves. I don't owe you or anyone else anything. There are churches and charities for those in need. The government has no business giving away taxpayer money to people who are too lazy to work.

(03-12-2016 03:52 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I can't be friends with hopelessly blue pill twits after a certain point. Is that extreme?

I wonder how much I want to be good friends with someone that wants to hand over the keys to the kingdom to a weak old man who's never had a real job yet had 6 figure income for decades and isn't worth a pile of shit.

I wonder if I want to be friends with someone who think BLM has a legitimate grievance and Mexicans should be able to come over here unchecked.

As you can see, it's far more than a candidate, it's about integrity and values.

Maybe I'm just an extreme person and I'm fine with that.

I can relate to the sentiments posted above.

In the past year I have done a major cull of so-called friends who, through my unplugging, have turned out to be enablers to previous destructive behaviour patters & hinderances to healthy change for me due to their fractured, fantastical worldview & their stubborn commitment to not expend any effort other than to tear others down.

Only as recently as Saturday night last, I jettisoned a long term female friend who I finally realised was a toxic, draining force in my life that had no interest in self-improvement. In 12months I have gone from having 4 day benders with her & others in our social circle to actively avoiding the inevitable exhaustion I will feel in having another useless, largely meaningless interaction with her. While I can see she benefits from my support of her (when I can get a fucking word in) I always end up feeling cheated of time, intellectually flatlined & fleeced of resources (beer, food etc).

I finally got rid of her at 7am, having mentioned from 4.30am that I wished to go to bed. She then showed up again unannounced after a win on the pokies at 10am expecting to just pick up where we left off.

4 hours later my parting words to her were.. "Shut up & fuck off". I have gotten pretty good at brushing useless relationships in recent times.

I monitored my emotions for the next 90 mins. Usually I would stress about harm to the relationship. Conversely however, I noticed my stress levels subside & heart rate normalise within 15 mins of her departure.

Another cunt bites the dust.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

I won't necessarily cut someone off for adhering to an ideology, but it is a red flag & more often than not will lead to me at least managing the relationship heavily if not outright brushing them. What it comes down to though is just how devoted they are to any particular ideology & how committed they are to subject those around them to their own belief structure.

Post: #13

Probably not, if only because I support Trump from a distance in the UK, but after all, how likely is it that you and a friend, even a good one, think the same way, support the same football team, watch the same shows, drink the same beer, enjoy the same jokes?

If they support anyone blindly and with no more justification than the drones who vote for Hillary or the Women's Equality Party because 'give women a chance' then yes, they're a fetal alcohol case who can't appreciate nuance or argument-better off apart from them.
On the other hand, someone who makes a reasoned choice to cast for Sanders or Nader (not going to say for Clinton or Cruz) may have good intentions even if they disagree with me about how to achieve their political aims.
"And if it come so to pass in that distance of judgment which is between man and man, shall we not think that God above, that knows the heart, doth not discern that frail men in some of their contradictions intend the same thing; and accepteth of both?"
(By which I mean that OVERVIEW is important.)
They may be wrong and so may I, but at least we can find common ground.

Post: #14

I have some guys who are polar opposites to who have been friends, but aren't good friends people who to a great extent, share similar beliefs and thoughts?
A guy who I can talk freely with on a variety of subjects, is also automatically the guy who subscribes most to a shared political ideology, imho.

Post: #15

Did this thread get Dr. Kahn banned?

Post: #16

^

I wasn't really holding my breathe, knew it would happen sooner or later.

Post: #17

That might be a decent way to have a good chunk of your Facebook friends list empty itself.

Post: #18

(03-12-2016 06:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  It's very simple. If a person cannot rationally discuss political differences without having a meltdown, then he wasn't friend material to began with. They will unfriend themselves from me, I simply search for the truth and it's not my problem if they hate truth.

Agreed.

Some of my closest friends disagree with Trump's policies, but at least they can rationally articulate his policies and explain why they disagree, and we can have a rational conversation. Most other people I meet cannot even articulate Trump's positions and basically get all their information from John Oliver or other bullshit. One of my friends even converted over to being a Trump supporter after I showed him his speech to the RJC.

Since my closest friends also informally work with me as part of a semi serious gambling/investing syndicate, that also does not prevent them from betting on Trump to win the nomination or presidency when presented with sufficiently good odds. That they have placed thousands of dollars on Trump to win the nomination back in August based on my analysis, regardless of their personal beliefs goes to show that sharpness matters to my closest friends more than personal beliefs.

Post: #19

(03-12-2016 09:24 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  Did this thread get Dr. Kahn banned?

That appears to be the case. I thought he would stop at alpha vs academics and that would have earned him a proper ban; yet at that time, a gremlin started fucking around with the high soaring airplane that was Dr. Kahn. However, he ignored William Shatner and thought that friendship vs politics would gave been cool since he was soaring high with 2 irrelevant rep points. The gremlin eventually destroyed the plane.

When someone tells you that you're gonna crash (get banned), you may as well not ignore the advice and keep soaring at the same altitude. I feel like a nerd but relevant scene from "The Twilight Zone" below.

Post: #20

Hey atleast I got a rep point out of it .

Though on the topic of friends with different political views. I tend to be friends with people whom completely agree with me or completely disagree with me. I like being challenged and none of them resort to being emotionally hysteric.

The last time someone did that people arguing both sides of the issues just started making fun of him until he removed himself from our vicinity.

Post: #21

(03-12-2016 10:08 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 09:24 PM)MiscBrah Wrote:  Did this thread get Dr. Kahn banned?

That appears to be the case.

Cobra the Troll hunter strikes again!

(03-12-2016 10:36 PM)hwuzhere Wrote:  Hey atleast I got a rep point out of it .

A rep point from an anti-RVFer. Do you disavow?

I'm the exact same. Most of my friends completely agree with me but I do have a few Bernie supporters in there. I like to debate with them because it keeps me sharp and helps me consider different perspectives I normally would overlook.

Post: #22

Quote:Hey atleast I got a rep point out of it

Hey me too.

Fare thee well DOCTOR fucking KAHN, Ph.D. I actually do hope you figure out how to get totally jacked thanks to the Misc and achieve supreme alpha-ness.

Back to the OP- I don't really mix politics with friends/family. With some friends and family who agree with me more, I talk more politics.

It strikes me that liberals/leftists are more likely to associate political views with an individual's moral worth. As a conservative you can view those you disagree with as simply misguided. But with some humility, we've all been misguided at times. At least I know I have.

Post: #23

Me and my friend talked about politics the other day and he was pretty standard-ish in the sense that he buys into the mainstream media lies and is anti-trump. With that said we talked for a good 45 minutes, and by the end of the chat he understood where I was coming from and I understood where he was coming from (after convincing him that the mainstream media is mischaracterizing Trump his only problem with Trump is that he seems "unpresidential" which is a somewhat fair criticism specially if you come from the school of thought of politically correct speaking).

My point is, nothing happened. We are still friends even though he is probably still anti Trump (to be fair I at least planted the seed of curiosity in his mind about everything he believes when it comes to Donald Trump).

Post: #24

They say the two things you should never talk about at work are Politics and Religion.

Women don't worked up about it nearly as much as we do.

It's because men are their ideas. That's why there is so much at stake.

I have two friends who during every election cycle go at each others throats over politics. It gets to the point I have to intervene and the Liberal eventually storms out anyways. They stay close friends though because they are both conflict-types. For them, conflict is the real.

Post: #25

A friend is an ally. That's the most essential part of friendship.
If you disagree on specific policies or the way they're implemented, then that's compatible with allegiance and friendship.
But if you both ally with two separate social groups, you're not allies, and friendship has already ended. Breaking ties is just a formality.
(Edit: if the groups are at odds, that is.)