Post: #1

I've been approaching for about a couple years on and off, mainly off, with Roosh's indirect method in Day Bang. It was a good book and I found it much better than trying to do it without a guide. At the time I thought it was an amazing guide.

I'd been hitting plateaus though and most importantly, I would feel very unmotivated to approach because in his book he refers to approaches as "putting the work in", something I hated doing with a passion. I only did it because I felt I had a duty to, and I shirked that duty often. I also have a very "alpha" and fun loving vibe and persona(and I was very "different" to most people imagewise), and it was fucking with my head that I had to hide my intentions and focus on baits/elderly openers and "not scaring the cat" etc etc. It felt very forced to me and it probably leaked out that I seemed fake and I definitely was incongruent with my vibe, and girls wouldn't contact me again. I only continued to do this because this was Roosh's method and I trusted that it should work.

I've recently gotten Nick Krauser's Daygame Nitro. So much of what he says clicked with my vibe. Like treating daygame with fun and wonder about the world, as if you're a kid in a candy store. In Roosh's book, you have to "brace" rejection before doing an approach, which only intensified it's feeling. Krauser recommended treating AA as anticipation and readiness, not fear. He also had the frame of "you're an alpha who takes what he wants from the street", in opposition to the pet store line/vibe. I also was a fan of pushing for the instadate, the sexual teasing/push/pull, and the fact that you shouldn't be spam approaching, but instead target girls that stir a deep attraction in you, and communicating that to her. The other interesting things were a complete disregard for kino, that it's okay to give compliments if you do it in a teasing instead of a beta way. I always had the bedrock of my game based on not giving compliments and trying to kino because of the pickup community/Roosh advice. I only had it for a short time but the 3 or so approaches I did, other than I was not used to approaching in the style, just felt so much better, more authentic and more congruent.

It was honestly been very similar to what my game would be if I kept going and abandoned Roosh's method. Honestly, while it was a massive help getting me started, Roosh's method really hampered me in the long run, I'm sorry to say. I don't wish to insult him because I do mean this in the best way and a lot of other Roosh material is top notch.

That being said, I'm not sure why Day Bang didn't work for me. I wonder if it's just because Daygame Nitro is just better, or because it's for different kinds of people. Although I do have the alpha fun loving vibe, I'm also autistic and on the spectrum. Watching Roosh's videos and reading his books in my head, I'm relatively certain he is too. I'm definitely autistic and in a sense less socially adjusted than Roosh is- yet Day Bang felt too autistic for me in retrospect. Perhaps it's because Day Bang is more of a beginner's guide and Nitro is more an intermediate guide. Or perhaps it might be because Day Bang is catered to the "beta engineer" type and it's very constricting to the "alpha renegade" type.

Thoughts?

Post: #2

(08-19-2016 02:18 PM)Armada Wrote:  ... I'm also autistic and on the spectrum. Watching Roosh's videos and reading his books in my head, I'm relatively certain he is too. I'm definitely autistic and in a sense less socially adjusted than Roosh is- yet Day Bang felt too autistic for me in retrospect. ...

Thoughts?

My thoughts are if you have autism then the books you are reading aren't the problem with yout approahces. Normal, socially well-adjusted people probably pick up on the fact that you are "a little off" and that's going to be a barrier you will need to deal with. Without much detail on how your approaches actually go, what is said, what tone of voice and body language etc. then I can only assume they look cringeworthy given your own admission that you have a social/behavioral disorder.

Also Roosh is not autistic. The fuck?

Post: #3

I mean to say, his videos have a characteristic lack of emotion and going into detail, signs of someone on the spectrum.

Let me compare myself to the normal (even redpill) person. I obsess about details and logic and facts. The normal person prefers to go with the flow. I like being in my own head and thoughts and am comforted by this.

This video, for example, shows what I'm talking about. Most guys, even guys who like achieving things and are very accomplished, don't tend to break things down in this much detail, preferring to "just talk to girls and see what happens". That being said, him being on the spectrum makes this video very useful to me.

Post: #4

I think "autism" is just the 2000's version of "ADD" as in, it's a popular/buzz disorder and everything thinks they have it/can diagnose it. Just because someone is analytical, detail oriented, and delivers content in a dry and deadpan fashion does not mean they have a social disorder - that is just their personality and their delivery.

A lot of what is mistaken for "autism" these days among adults I really think is just a widespread phenomenon where a lot of people mature slower and are less socially calibrated just because we don't mingle as much. A lot of our focus these days is individual and a lot of our entertainment is consumed solo. Children stay inside on the computer, and they grow up keeping their heads buried in smart phones and sitting quietly in a cubicle. I think the way Roosh teaches game caters to that crowd - men who want to be successful with women but never learned the social skills organically.

Post: #5

Another reason these buzz disorders are popular is that they divorce the problem from the individual.

This way, the person can blame some imaginary disease for his problems and never take personal responsibility to solve them.

-It's this [insert any buzz disorder] that's causing [my current problem]. So, instead of accepting my shortcomings and trying to actually solve my problem, I will just blame it on [insert any buzz disorder].

Post: #6

Could you explain this part more?

" The other interesting things were a complete disregard for kino, that it's okay to give compliments if you do it in a teasing instead of a beta way"

WIA

Post: #7

In the book he says kino is beta/supplicating because it treats the girl as the prize instead of yourself. And in public it activates her anti-slut defense because other people can see it. But if you escalate sexually verbally then it doesn't do the above things.

And compliments are normally "beta" but an alpha can do them as long as it's with the impression he's not taking the girl seriously.

Post: #8

I had the same experience with you. Roosh was my introduction to game, later found Krauser and now I do almost exclusively direct openers (although I still do indirect if the girl and I are in a trapped situation, like on a train or in the grocery store).

Post: #9

(08-19-2016 07:11 PM)Armada Wrote:  In the book he says kino is beta/supplicating because it treats the girl as the prize instead of yourself. And in public it activates her anti-slut defense because other people can see it. But if you escalate sexually verbally then it doesn't do the above things.

Krauser says that or Roosh says that?

A lot of it depends on the context and the type of touch.

a) A day game beach approach in a tropical type environment with music in the air - touch can be great.

b) A day game city center approach where a girl is headed to the dentist while you're chatting her up - a touch at the wrong time can trigger all sorts of things.

c) However, if you have a warm engaging personality, and you touch people a lot naturally - you'll have the mental frame of mind, and body language that makes touching the girl okay - because she sees as the kind of guy that's warm, engaging, friendly and touchy.

Your touch is not a threat, because by touching her, you're not trying to get something from her.

(08-19-2016 07:11 PM)Armada Wrote:  And compliments are normally "beta" but an alpha can do them as long as it's with the impression he's not taking the girl seriously.

Context and Calibration for compliments.

However "net game"/pua evolved in response to how society shows young men how to talk to young women.

Society teaches boys to be nice, respectful, pay compliments, and buy dinner. In today's language, we'd call that Beta Provider. In the early 00's, it was called being an Average Frustrated Chump.

Early net game (and current day as well) was full of guys who did all of that - and those behaviors, compliments especially, didn't get them closer to having sex. So that's why most PUA/Game stuff in 2016 is still against compliments. The technique overall is bad.

However, later developments and observations in game showed that compliments can be good/great - but you needed the right context and calibration for it.

WIA

Post: #10

Krauser said that.

Thanks for the post- it gave me something to think about. Yeah- I'll focus on being authentic and true to myself. In general this means *not* touching girls(but I don't mind if they touch me), and complimenting them sexually with a tease.

Post: #11

General Stalin is right. The labeling of Autistic is thrown around too often and should be reserved for a severe mental disorder. You have been thinking and reading too much instead of applying these skills into practice.

There have been many Indirect vs Direct threads. One method isn't better than the other. I personally prefer Direct, but I see value in using the Indirect approach in certain situations:

Girl in the metro
Standing in line behind a girl in a department store
Two-set, sitting at a park bench

Post: #12

As a follow up, the books that Roosh and Krauser wrote are guides based on their experience. They provide a framework, but ultimately you should develop your own style. This is not a mathematical equation where you plug in variables and it yields an expected outcome. Transcend this black and white thinking and it will benefit you.

I hung out with Krauser a bit last month. He talks about "reading the street". Essentially, he is emphasizing to look for IOIs, read body language and facial expressions to determine which women are approachable. To master this art, it of course, takes time and experience.

Post: #13

(08-19-2016 02:18 PM)Armada Wrote:  Thoughts?

Learn from everyone.

Do what works best for YOU.

Learn from great teachers but also follow your own intuition.

(08-19-2016 07:11 PM)Armada Wrote:  Krauser talks about "reading the street"

Funny, I call it "smelling the street"..

Feeling the wind, temperature, humidity, odor, color, lighting, sounds, tastes, vibes, density, demographic, look, etc..

All of these things will effect the mood and attitude of the girls.

Each one is a potential topic of conversation.

Each one is something that we have in common.

Each one creates a potential desire/need/want.

I must artfully adjust to these ever changing factors in order to maximize my opportunities.

TOUCHING and COMPLIMENTING ??? -- These things are subtle, layered, nuances of male/female interaction and honestly; Unless you're really a "natural", it can take years of practice in order to get an solid intuitive sense for when and how to use them skillfully. I experimented with trial and error for nearly 10 years before I really felt comfortable knowing when to touch and when NOT to touch AND when to compliment and when NOT to compliment.