Post: #1

Hot chick
Online
You're shooting for your first meet.

She's seemingly down to hang, the texting has been good, very flirty, a little racy and sexy.

So you opt for the tried and true, Netflix and Chill.

And chick is offended, and demands that you take her out?

What do you do?

WIA

Post: #2

I don't try to get girls to my place for the first meet.

However, in this case, if this usually works for you and if she's already created an ultimatum, you'd be best forgetting about her altogether and moving onto new targets.

Post: #3

Offer cooking. If you're seriously in doubt, "let's meet at xyz bar first, then I'll cook ____ for dinner." Try to do as many venue changes as possible before your place.

Post: #4

It depends. Also depends how "offended" she is. If she's truly offended, I'd probably next. If it's faux or light hearted and she was cute enough, I'd do a local bar/lounge with good logistics.

My routine is; meet at a local lounge, after the first drink take a walk, during the walk get an 'a ha' moment and suggest a drink on the patio at your place or something at your place. If she accepts, great. Start walking to your car.

If not, stay positive and light heartedly decide to call it a night, suggesting "we'll do something fun next time" ( I know against all convention) Then do your goodnight kiss if she's down.

Hit up in a few days inviting her over. Push for sex .

fwiw, I sometimes offer to uber girls. If it's late enough ( because they take all night to get ready sometimes or to makeup their minds to go out), I'll uber them to my place telling them 'we'll have drinks at the rooftop pool overlooking the city, the weather's so great' I did this sunday night. On her uber coming over she said "where are we meeting" and that's how I responded. It was about 10:00 on a Sunday night so I also added "all my favorite restaurants for drinks are closing now ha"

Post: #5

Pay for an uber and drinks?!?!!

They're coming for you man!

WIA

Post: #6

(11-01-2016 09:27 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Pay for an uber and drinks?!?!!

They're coming for you man!

WIA

I hear you, but depends on girl for me. Many drive themselves. Some though I'll offer uber (broke college chicks) and if you're ubering them, you've got more "control" where they come.

If they agree to letting me uber them right to my place for drinks at a baller pool, it works for me.

It's as cheap as down town parking to meet at a venue and she's coming straight to my pad. $ 10 is nothing so no skin off my back.

Post: #7

#teamappetizer

There is a big difference between facilitating romance and paying for it. Plenty of potential players put pennies before pussy.

WIA

Post: #8

I agree with Suits I don't try to pull on first date...though somehow I have before

I'll either exaggerate her playing hard to get (we both know you want me, but I'll play the 'date' game) or downplay my invite as if I was joking (play innocent)
So either...

you so classy but I get it let's grab a drink
or
Haha well I didn't mean come right to my place (just like "whoa whoa whoa who said anything about sex")

Most likely the latter. Damn so much of my game is ambiguous, like the Departed Scene...probably why I like it so much.

Post: #9

Reposting from another thread:

(10-31-2016 10:38 AM)churros Wrote:  Do not directly invite the girl over. You can’t answer “I would prefer to meet in public”, because there is no answer. Sometimes, girls will reject you outright if you invite them directly over.

Instead, invite them to somewhere near your place. A landmark. Be ambiguous about what you’re planning to do. When they get there, just go and sit down somewhere. A park ideally, a bench. Doesn’t matter, you’re only spending ten or fifteen minutes.

Now she’s face to face, and feels comfortable, casually invite her for tea or a drink. All that messing around building comfort over phone and text is negated. DO NOT invite directly to “your place”. Just IMPLY by saying “I have some really good tea”, which makes it clear what you mean.

Post: #10

I've always liked this line for its simplicity. It doesn't imply sex but literally, watching a movie or show and chilling. It's got plausible deniability built in to it. This is good for us.
However, I think the Netflix and Chill offer is being overused by too many thirsty dudes with weak or no game.
This is a problem because now we've got the expectation of similar experience with any girl who has 'netflixed and chill'-ed with a boring beta broski. I believe guys like that use it thinking they'll get laid just because a girl agreed to it. Not realizing that you still have to run game to get the snatch, they inevitably fuck it up. If this happens to a girl she Wil be much more wary of agreeing to a Netflix and chill. She'll revert to that one bad experience and presume that whoever is using the line is just like the previous guy. Thats not to say it wouldn't work again on the same girl, just means shell be less likely to agree to it unless we dominate the frame in a way that assures her of having a good time. Unlike her previous one.

I've been called out in a few similar ways, regarding a Netflix and chill offer, which has put me on this train of thought.

Netflix and chill is reaching critical mass from overuse in that when a girl hears the line, her Anti slut defenses kick in. This is bad news bears for us. what used to give plausible deniability is now doing the exact opposite and revealing our inherently true goal of sex, all too soon.
Regarding the what do you do now WIA... I'd say this is a shit test. However, we can't be sure whether or not she is truly offended or just fucking with us so I suggest a few options for you.( this is only assuming you cook when you Netflix and chill, that's what I do and that's where I base these examples. you can easily adapt in whatever way to be congruent for you)

A - agree to go out with her. You choose the place and tell her she's buying since you'd rather be eating a gourmet meal you cooked yourself at home while watching netflix.

B - Tell her you don't feel like going out but you might not be opposed to going to her place. Shel have to cook though cause your a guest and all.

C - Get offended yourself, " I find it offensive and (the opposite of misogynistic) when you demand that I buy you something. Is that all I am to you? " -- this is a straight up manipulation tactic that I would only suggest using on the weak-minded. Sufficient dark traid types can use this with more effect. Tread carefully any time you employ a maneuver like this as women are intuitive and can see through this guise. Keyword, can.

D - Gauge the authenticity of her offendedness (if thats a word).... Shit test her, tease her and stay aloof while avoiding giving in to her demand. circle back enough times to land on your original Netflix and chill offer and see if she's still ' offended'

I'm sure there's a more efficient and direct response that will give you the result you seek. I've still got a lot I learn before I can figure out what that would be but for what it's worth, you may be able to glean some insight from my moderate understandings of game and women.

Keep us posted.

Post: #11

Are you phrasing it in literal terms?

As in, "Let's Netflix and chill"? If so, she's far more likely to balk as this cultural meme is well known by this point. I would opt for a more subtle way of phrasing it that has some plausible deniability. "I just got a new ____ you should come over and check it out".

If she balks at that with a counter offer I would go with it, if she straight up says no to coming over I would say lets get drinks at (bar within walking distance).

The local bar is a good gauge of her interest; she knows drinks = possibility of sex, so if she agrees to that, her buying temperature is at least somewhat warm. If she demands I take her out for dinner, answer is no.

Post: #12

@ Jay Rod

Not asking for me. I don't know the first thing about this new fangled technology. I'm still talking to chicas face to face. Dinosaur game.

This post is about
1) Whether you should pursue
2) How to recover
3) Accepting the frame

Folks talking about how to avoid this problem in the first place are telling me that they can't handle the issue. They don't see solutions. I don't know if I see one either, but this is not my area.

Like all my posts, this is where you guys can school me.

The offline equivalent is an approach that shows you're trying to bang and you've already made up your mind (direct) and she's like no. Offline, you can just sit there and let her break and go into explanation of why she can't, and play off her reaction which then changes her mood. That's a more nuanced approach to direct game, but I'm not going to derail my own post.

Online? You don't have the ability to sub communicate or interact nonverbally.

WIA

Post: #13

(11-01-2016 11:01 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  This post is about
1) Whether you should pursue
2) How to recover
3) Accepting the frame

Folks talking about how to avoid this problem in the first place are telling me that they can't handle the issue. They don't see solutions. I don't know if I see one either, but this is not my area.

I wouldn't invite a chick from online/Tinder straight to my place without screening her face to face first. Too many variables for a crazy bitch to know where I live and potentially become a headache without me getting some.

1) You can still pursue but you already made the mistake of jumping the gun before ensuring she is comfortable to come to yours. Assuming you are average looks.

2) Suggest another place near yours as a final line in the sand and gauge her interest from there.

3) Inviting her over is a hail mary and you accept that it's within her frame as you have given her the power of rejecting you outright. It's not a loss by any means. I would joke around and tease her. Off the top of my mind, also to screen playfulness

"My mind is telling me no but my body is telling me yes" - voice note that spastic r kelly song and have some fun
"How else am I gonna fill this freezer?"
"I got Little House on the Prairie if you don't like whats on Netflix"
"Ice cream it is." - straight up alternative; if she isn't interested, she isn't interested

Just have fun. Depending on how long I have invested in to this interaction, I might just say "aight cool" and move on.

I don't think any player should be inviting a chick from online straight to his place without an interaction in a neutral place.

I like Suits and Churro's responses.

Post: #14

Post: #15

I'm no expert but will chime in with my experience. I've invited several girls straight to my place, since the weather has been good it's usually to go for a walk by the river near my house but I've also proposed meals or drinks/Netflix. If we've been hitting it off on text they are usually agreeable, though sometimes will express some apprehension ("You're not a serial killer right?") which I've found agree and amplify to work well ("At least I'm a cute serial killer"). A couple have said they would prefer to meet in person first, in almost all those cases my Spidey sense was already tingling that something was off with the chick and I just let it go.

Honestly I think that a weakness of mine is that I don't realize that the girls willing to come directly to my place are likely wanting to get laid, and I take too long or talk to long and don't escalate enough. In my defense there's times where I'm evaluating whether I even want to get with the chick but I think it will benefit me to make a small mental shift and assume that if she's over at my place she wants to fuck me.

WIA, did you dupe yourself? Gonna go read that thread now for more ideas...

Post: #16

editing now....

Post: #17

If she demands I would go no contact. If she was just nervous about meeting a guy from the internet at his house for a first date, I would just say something along the lines of "ok, well I'll have more time on _______ how about we meet at local bar then for a drink? "

Post: #18

It's slightly different. That's about optimization, this is about hard choices.

A lot of the game is played when you make "mistakes" or capitalize on "errors"

I just read this one from night game.

So dude goes direct on a chick.
She is like Nah/maybe.
She then introduces him to her friend
He's like, but I'm talking to YOU

He later gets the number.

I don't know if this is a good number
I do know this is the 90% bad game.

BUT

If you understand the psychology of the situation, he basically broke the feigned rapport he had with the target. He broke social "rules".

Most guys just accept meeting the friend, and that is usually is a socially acceptable way for her to escape.

But by being "rude", rejecting her counter offer, he may have turned a red light to green.

That's GAME, though I know this dude is not game savvy enough to see that

A lot of guys stay at basic levels with their one on one game because they try to avoid social friction. They don't see the value in CAUSING social friction, because they don't understand that girls like for you to put up a fight, and pin them on their backs.

One of my early understandings of game bangs came from me talking to a chick I banged. She had banged another guy in the scene, and since I'm non judgmental, I asked her about him. Dude looked like Wiz Khalifa without the tats.

"He has an answer for everything"

It took me a while to really break down what she meant. He basically battered them down whenever a chick had some smart shit to say.

Now the young me was like, I need to have prepared answers for whatever shit test.

The wise me realized that passing her tests made her both wet and compliant.

So what keeps guys from getting fully internalized (or expanding ) with one-on-one game is treating problems as problems.

A chick that balks is one that has been affected on an emotional level. That's fuel for a player

But how to use it.

Since a lot if you guys do fresh direct game, I'm wondering past the basic options of
1) prevention
2) pass.

There are some right wing dudes here that can troll their way into some feminist pussy.

How do we use that mentality in this situation?

Some guys have game but don't realize or maximize. Other guys play it safe.

WIA

Post: #19

What you're talking about is breaking down a girls walls here. She doesn't know you from a hole in the wall, but most any girl is down for whatever and pretty freaky if you give them the environment to be. If you can build the right mix of comfort and attraction (seduction) then she will do wild things, but it's getting past that little hurdle. Breaking her shell and getting inside her bubble.

Me personally if a girl scoffs at my proposition of having her come over and asks that we meet somewhere instead I would say something along the lines of "well I'm not leaving the house tonight but we could get drinks at xyz on Thurs"

Post: #20

(11-01-2016 11:01 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  This post is about
1) Whether you should pursue
2) How to recover
3) Accepting the frame

Let's start here: There is no option to not invite her directly over.

You HAVE TO pursue this chick only with the Netflix and Chill Scenario.

She scoffs or balks at your offer.

I'd laugh it off and frame it as, "Hey can't blame a man for not trying lol, unless you like a man without a plan or sense of direction...."

She'll probably say that's kind of true or will challenge you with saying you could do better.

Pivot - to re-framing/recovering the conversation by talking about her evening schedule this week.

Once she gives you her open evenings, play it as, you've got alot of plans but X day should work at Y, at Z time.

She agrees - and you meet up.

Quote:Folks talking about how to avoid this problem in the first place are telling me that they can't handle the issue. They don't see solutions. I don't know if I see one either, but this is not my area.

Like all my posts, this is where you guys can school me.

It's easy to handle issue - you'll get 3 responses.

1. No response - next.
2. Easy going response - she laughs - reframe and plan something.
3. Bitchy response or getting told off - low chance of reframing - but nothing to lose.

Quote:The offline equivalent is an approach that shows you're trying to bang and you've already made up your mind (direct) and she's like no. Offline, you can just sit there and let her break and go into explanation of why she can't, and play off her reaction which then changes her mood. That's a more nuanced approach to direct game, but I'm not going to derail my own post.

It's great you bring this up because you will STILL experience this after getting that online girl on a date.

Especially when its time to venue change or you're dropping bait and pull the trigger on bouncing back to your pad.

You'll see her reaction, body language, and how she replies. Plenty of tells and feelers there.

Quote:Online? You don't have the ability to sub communicate or interact nonverbally.

WIA

Agree, which is why it's EXTREMELY important to get that number fast, start texting her.

Personally I use the "hey I'm driving, call me, don't wanna text and die" line to have them call ME and then feel them out via actual convo over the phone instead of text.

Alot of females appreciate that call (I have another game plan once I get them on the phone - pertains to some comfort game and bait dropping).


EDIT:

I forgot to discuss something that was brought up - not going direct when first talking to a female online.

It absolutely helps to not go direct and usually this is my formula:

Match> Get intel (questions/background)> Relate and humble brag> standard number close> Text tagline intro to her>

chat up AND/OR call> setup meet> meet up> venue change> drop bait> bounce to pad> bang.


EVEN if I had a female come over directly, it was overtly, I've never used the "netflix and chill" line - nor have I said, "hey come over and watch a movie with me."

I've never offered to cook, have a drink at my place, or whatever. (Maybe I've lost some bangs ? Doubtful)

It's more along the lines of "I worked all day and went to the gym, I just wanna lounge around and vibe out, sound good ?"

Some girls are game and it gives them plausible deniability.

Post: #21

Do we have to use the netflix and chill option?

The Netflix and chill remark has a "lets bang" connotation which is why she is balking. She's into you, but not enough "comfort" has been established for the bang.

Try again and say, "Would you like to come to my place to sample some really good wine, weed, etc" or better yet, go to a quiet bar for drinks and then swing back to your place.

Post: #22

WIA:

The whole "movie at my place" has been a standard for players for DECADES. I have 5 different romantic comedies just for that express purpose. I give the girl a choice, knowing each of the movies serves my purpose.

Unfortunately, with the rise of technology, many betas started adopting this tactic. Knowing women love watching Netflix, the betas on Tinder and OkCupid started inviting women over to "Netflix and chill", resulting in widespread abuse of bad game on good tactic.

Because it's now become so cliche, many women are turned off not only by the originality of it, but by the fact that you're suggesting she fuck you. The cat's out of the bag: Women now know EXACTLY what you're suggesting when you invite her to watch Netflix at your house. There's no "plausible deniability". THAT'S the reason she's offended. You need to offer something that isn't cliche. I know it sucks to lose this old stand-by gem, but times are changing, and it's time to leave this one behind.

Post: #23

(11-01-2016 06:47 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  the texting has been good, very flirty, a little racy and sexy.

And chick is offended, and demands that you take her out?

What do you do?

First off,

Don't show any negative emotional reaction!

Stay playful -- and consistent with the personality and vibe that created the flirty, sexy, and racy communications.

She's not really offended. She is just pretending to be offended.

--

2 minutes ago, she was texting in a flirty, sexy, racy way... Now, all of the sudden she is offended?

Don't buy into her fake frame!

It's a shit test!

She wants to see how I will react. She wants to make sure that I don't get overly excited and start acting creepy.

She wants to avoid coming directly over to my house for sex -- so that SHE WILL NOT FEEL LIKE A SLUT!

SHE WANTS TO GIVE HERSELF PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY!

--

I would simply suggest another venue.

A venue that is:

A) Lively, fun, and crazy. (this is so she feels like we did a real date)

B) Close to my house or her house. (logistics)

But, I don't need to fuck on the first date.

I don't mind chatting and vibing with the girl on a first date and creating that anticipation for sex.

--

(11-01-2016 11:01 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  1) Whether you should pursue

There is certainly no reason to give up on this girl.

I might entice her to pursue me rather than me pursuing her but.. The point is.. there is no reason to give up.

(11-01-2016 11:01 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  2) How to recover

I don't look at it as "recovery" but more as "progression"..

She balked at my first offer, so, I will simply "progress" to my next option.

"Recovery" implies that we "lost" something.. I don't feel like anything was "lost", necessarily..

In fact, we can even GAIN momentum here -- if we pass the shit test smoothly and subsequently put her mind at ease about the situation.

(11-01-2016 11:01 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  3) Accepting the frame

"Frames" can be watery.

They can change at any moment.

I think her frame is fake (shit test)

And, I think her frame is set up just so that she will not feel like a slut (built in plausible deniability)

I would not "accept" her frame but I might allow her think that I did.. Just so she will feel comfortable letting me take her clothes off.

Post: #24

(11-01-2016 06:47 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Hot chick
Online
You're shooting for your first meet.

She's seemingly down to hang, the texting has been good, very flirty, a little racy and sexy.

So you opt for the tried and true, Netflix and Chill.

And chick is offended, and demands that you take her out?

What do you do?

For me the exact response would depend on the details of the interaction--how the text exchange had gone up to that point, and exactly what she texted in being offended and demanding to be taken out.

In general, assuming your goal is to push through to the meetup, I think the best approach would be to suggest that the girl meet you at your place and then you'll do X activity, e.g., walk in the park nearby, grab a drink at a nearby bar, &c.

By insisting you meet at yours you maintain the frame, while the outside activity gives plausible deniability to assuage any doubts or ASD. Works best if you can spin it as being what you'd intended in the first place, to maintain the ambiguity and keep her guessing.

Post: #25

Fuck this guys, I'm going to start the Appetizer 2.0 thread hahaha....

"Is using Uber to bring girls beta?"

Especially since a lot of folks who were #noappetizers because it was losing frame and thus beta the ones being okay with Uber.

Uber is the new appetizer.