Post: #1

Hi folks,

I'm 29/m. 2nd generation Brit of Pakistani stock. I am half way through my Graduate Entry Medical School programme. Previously, I worked as a lab researcher. BSc in Biology, MSc Genetics.

I'm 6ft tall, decent shape (180 lbs) but not ripped. Coffee coloured (Punjabi roots) but dont put too much stock in incidentals like colour anyway. I just suck when it comes to women. I am 95% Westernized, only special occasion religious and generally very well integrated - there is no obvious cultural barrier.

I just dont understand why I have no success with women. I have read (and purchased) Bang and Day Bang, all the posts I can by Kaotic, Bojangles and Walter Black and try to avoid the pitfalls Roosh and those guys highlight. I feel I have great cards that should land me regular snatch but I have only been with 4 women in my life and 1 of those was a pity bang by a then close friend!

I cant figure out the riddle. I'm average looking I guess (huge nose! - I attribute my failures to this half joking!) and get the odd number and first date but then (typically) nothing. I have no skill in escalating. I'm smart, polite, well educated, westernized, integrated, decently dressed etc etc.

Shockingly the demographic I have LEAST success with is desi women and that sucks as I am very attracted to my own ethnic group. Limited success elsewhere but TBH I have given up.

Help!

Post: #2

I suggest reading some of my posts and threads too.

What am I chopped liver?

Let me ask you a relevant question. What are your interests specifically and what type of people do you hang out with typically?

Some other questions: what us your style like and how do you dress? How many women have you slept with and what kind? How have you met these women (e.g. cold approach, social circle etc.)?

For us brown guys, being westernized from a girl's perspective is way different than what we feel it is. Assuming this is true, there is a gap in who you think you are versus how women perceive you.

Also, I see an overall lack of game as the real issue rather than the amount of westernization being the source of this given you also appear to have an issue with desi/south Asian woman as well.

We are here to help along with my other brown compadres but if you want our help, why don't you start by answering those questions.

Post: #3

I have given some of that information already mate. 4 women so far (1 was a long standing friend who later became more than a friend - bad move, few bangs aside it ruins any dynamics of friendship). 2 others were through university - student parties, union events etc (1 somewhat serious relationship that fell apart). The 4th was through Match.com. She was older but it was worth it.

My style is generic - jeans, shirt, shoes. Nothing fancy, nothing 'urban'.

Interests: Academic interests are obviously medicine and Sci-tech based but I also love Politics and Literature. I will probably specialize in Psychiatry. Outside of the classroom, I love film, travel, photography, theatre. Not huge on sports but keep an eye on UFC, Boxing, Tennis and Cricket.

I havent 'night gamed' in a few years - simply dont have the time. Classes and rounds take up my day and night. Besides, I was never much of a party goer.

In terms of my friends - I dont have too many. 1 brother who is a solicitor and a couple of Scottish guys who have been friends for years. 1 of them pulls a lot of ass - he is HUGE (Rugby forward) and smooth with words, the other much like me is more introverted. I have a few relatives dotted about but I dont really hang out as such with them.

Post: #4

Have you thought about "upping" your style and your fitness?

Trust me, dressing well and lifting can go a long way.

Post: #5

How do you feel about getting a nose job (rhinoplasty)?

Post: #6

I have considered rhinoplasty but only fleetingly. Obviously my nose is prominent but deep down I know it's not the cause of my issues. It would help my asthetics not to have a pyramid on my face but alas.

Style wise - yes I could dress up. I cycle but dont really lift which I will start doing.

I suspect I need to find my niche and then develop greater ease with approaching. I certainly dont hit the approach numbers I should.

@all the brown players here - what was your 'click' moment?

Post: #7

juicebox you are looking for a magical shortcut that doesnt exist. You are asking about click moments while you havent taken care of the basics.

You admit and are self aware that you dont have the basics, but why then do you wonder why you dont have success?


- You say you have no escalation skills, then it doesnt matter if you read the books or not. It means you have to work on your game more.
- You say you dont approach enough
- You say you havent optimized your looks/style
- You say you dont have a very extensive or helpful social circle

Work on all this then you can wonder if it doesnt work for you

Post: #8

(10-09-2017 08:07 AM)Beirut Wrote:  juicebox you are looking for a magical shortcut that doesnt exist. You are asking about click moments while you havent taken care of the basics.

You admit and are self aware that you dont have the basics, but why then do you wonder why you dont have success?


- You say you have no escalation skills, then it doesnt matter if you read the books or not. It means you have to work on your game more.
- You say you dont approach enough
- You say you havent optimized your looks/style
- You say you dont have a very extensive or helpful social circle

Work on all this then you can wonder if it doesnt work for you

Much of that is legit but how can I approach when I work/study the entire day? We have rounds, classes, exams and on top of that private study.

I agree I need to work on my game more which is why I read about the PUA culture, read books and this board (and other forums too). TBH I assumed getting the MBBS (or being in-course) would land me poon. It hasn't worked yet.

I dress casually which I can fix easily by buying better clothes. Social circle is a function of social life which is thin atm for obvious reasons. Essentially I am asking where can I practice game/approaches given my huge time restraints?

I know this is a long haul. I am a good student, I'm just trying to learn from the knowledge of those who have gone before me.

Post: #9

juicebox as far as time management goes, then we are now in another subject. Obviously this will vary a lot depending on your schedule and levels of energy.

I know some doctors who would be killing it but end up with a whale because they never had time to develop socially, and i have one doctor friend who legit has a threesome every other day in Miami. Squeeze in one drink after your shifts at a decent bar, do online game, chat them up on way to work/at work/gym, etc...

Theres always time.

Post: #10

Well you could jump ship to eastern europe like roosh where ypur look has an edge. Othereise keep practicing till ypur smooth be critical of ypur self try being cocky since youre in uk.

But up your style do stronglifts and get a hobby like mma since youre into it

Post: #11

@ Beirut.

The 200lbs future described sounds truly Dickensian. I am realistic enough to not expect weekly threesomes (yet) but need to iron out my many game flaws.

@newguy101. MMA is a stretch given my schedule but I do cycle and will start lifting a little. Its 7am and I'm off for a long ass day.

Post: #12

Ignore the person saying have a nose job. Take a trip to South East Asia where everybody has button noses and find having a long nose to be a very attractive trait and you'll start to love it

Post: #13

Any tips for general shyness?
Sometimes I feel like an Emperor and will try my luck with anyone but usually I'm a bit shy. Any tips?
We are trying to break a 6 month dry spell here.

Post: #14

@Juicebox, I agree with Beirut. But one thing that wasn't mentioned is how your interests will affect you. Men are much more interested in things like politics and science, philosophy etc. It's tough to be interested in those things + have some social inhibition and be able to talk to bubbly girls who like makeup and Ally McBeal, or whatever they watch these days.

If I am out I can't really deal with those women without better surroundings and time. A more intellectual girl is easier. But they tend to be less attractive so we are drawn to them less.

Sounds like you don't really like the night atmosphere and would benefit from looking in places where you can meet people who think the same. If you are in the city you have meetup.com

Post: #15

(10-10-2017 01:42 PM)juicebox Wrote:  Any tips for general shyness?
Sometimes I feel like an Emperor and will try my luck with anyone but usually I'm a bit shy. Any tips?
We are trying to break a 6 month dry spell here.

Shyness is just fear of a pre-determined expected negative outcome=rejection being "larger" than your desire for a positive outcome=sex . Because you dont know what will happen and your built in evolutionary self preservation mechanisms are designed to associate fear with the unknown

Imagine if you knew that every single person (men and women) you approached were to be thrilled. Would you still have that fear? Of course not

The best way to overcome that fear is to "change" your current visceral reaction to that unknown outcome by minimizing it. If you talk to a girl and she doesn't respond favorably is she going to shoot you in face with a shotgun? ...of course not. The worst that will happen is she'll give you the "Ive got a boyfriend" line.

Whats so terrifying about that?

The fastest way to overcome shyness/ fear is to just do "practice" approaches. At the library, coffee shop, grocery store, mall, bank, everywhere just set out to talk to girls anywhere without the expectation of getting number, date, laid. That will remove a lot of pressure.

Once youve done enough (50-100) of the "practice" approaches you will have a lot less anxiety associated with that part of the dynamic and can quickly transition into adding "game" principles.

Edit: Less anxiety=more confidence.

Confidence is overwhelmingly rated by women as the most attractive feature in men

Post: #16

Hey.
Sorry for my long absence - I am immensely busy and rounds are tough. Add to that my unit exams are in 6 weeks and it's an ordeal.
1 thing I can do immediately is to lower my standards - I have always sought 'quality' meaning well educated & cultured women and that's a waste of time. I will aim to cast a wider net.

I am doing what I can with my schedule : working out 4 evenings now (mostly cycling), keeping my clothes & looks on point.
I read more than I post and am learning a lot here.

Post: #17

Bro this is my second post on RVF, so like a shot of shitty tequila, you may wish to take what I say with a grain of salt. And a lime.

Now I'm honestly not trying to be a dick, but you may have noticed that there are two threads stickied (Sticked? Stuck? The more I say/read "stickied" the more wrong it sounds.) to the top of the Newbie Forum. One is for introductions, the other is the "NEWB FAQ" which is filled...no, PACKED TO THE BRIM with solid game advice for beginners. Also, if you've read "Bang" and "Day Bang" you should already be a Roosh-level grandmaster poon-slayer!

Now if you're still having problems, then go to the store. Go to the mall, Go to walmart. The moment you see a cute girl, immediately walk up to her and say "Hi, I'm juicebox. I think you're cute" and she'll kinda giggle a little bit cuz she's actually shy in person. Then get her name and number, bada bing bada boom. What's the worst thing that could happen? She might be your grandmother sent through a time machine into the future, which of course is actually the present for you, therefore you cannot bang her due to paradoxes and shit, but hot damn your grandma was a cutie when she was young!

Or she could just say no and then you wash, rinse, repeat on every cute girl you see from now on.

Post: #18

(10-31-2017 11:36 AM)cjackson Wrote:  Bro this is my second post on RVF, so like a shot of shitty tequila, you may wish to take what I say with a grain of salt. And a lime.

Now I'm honestly not trying to be a dick, but you may have noticed that there are two threads stickied (Sticked? Stuck? The more I say/read "stickied" the more wrong it sounds.) to the top of the Newbie Forum. One is for introductions, the other is the "NEWB FAQ" which is filled...no, PACKED TO THE BRIM with solid game advice for beginners. Also, if you've read "Bang" and "Day Bang" you should already be a Roosh-level grandmaster poon-slayer!

Now if you're still having problems, then go to the store. Go to the mall, Go to walmart. The moment you see a cute girl, immediately walk up to her and say "Hi, I'm juicebox. I think you're cute" and she'll kinda giggle a little bit cuz she's actually shy in person. Then get her name and number, bada bing bada boom. What's the worst thing that could happen? She might be your grandmother sent through a time machine into the future, which of course is actually the present for you, therefore you cannot bang her due to paradoxes and shit, but hot damn your grandma was a cutie when she was young!

Or she could just say no and then you wash, rinse, repeat on every cute girl you see from now on.

Book knowledge has its place but implementing it isn't always easy. I have learnt 2 things: 1) Ladies don't care for education and (2) nice guys get no play. For those 2 lessons alone my short journey into game has been worth it. I hope many more lessons and better returns are ahead.

Post: #19

You have bookish interests and talk of lifting like "I'll try a little of that".

Until you transform yourself you are going to struggle. Just by your own account, you have no 'charge' that you give off for the ladies.

Without being a cultured Casanova, just being cultured alone, I think getting dynamic and strong is going to make a massive difference to what women pick up from you. It reads like it's an untapped resource.

Post: #20

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'great cards'?

Post: #21

LOL @ "I'll try a little of that".

"Do or do not, there is no try" - Yoda

Post: #22

(11-02-2017 07:33 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'great cards'?

Sorry for the late reply. I have a busy schedule.

I mean I am tall, in shape, well educated, not terrible aesthetics, polite, well spoken etc etc. Turns out none of that is worth too much. Incidentally, I had an impossible exam on Tuesday which makes me question if I want do become a Dr.

On paper not a bad hand (I think we can all agree), but results are minimal.

Post: #23

(11-22-2017 07:44 PM)juicebox Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 07:33 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'great cards'?

Sorry for the late reply. I have a busy schedule.

I mean I am tall, in shape, well educated, not terrible aesthetics, polite, well spoken etc etc. Turns out none of that is worth too much. Incidentally, I had an impossible exam on Tuesday which makes me question if I want do become a Dr.

On paper not a bad hand (I think we can all agree), but results are minimal.

None of that matters.

In order...

1. Game (your ability to interact with women. To quote The Rational Male, you have to be a guy who "gets it." https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/)
2. Charisma (your ability to make other men respect you)
3. Height (some women simply will not be physically attracted to short guys. Taller, good looking guys can get away with a lot of shit us average schlubs would get blown out for).
4. Style (and smell). Be a bartender, a high powered lawyer, a DJ, a cowboy, whatever. Don't be a schlub in dad jeans and sneakers. ("Be better than the Gap" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zckciw8lD1k).
5. Fitness (if you're short, fitness is a must. You can get girls if you're short, but you can't be fat too).

Stuff I've found doesn't matter...

- Money
- Profession (I've had many people say "I knew you were a lawyer from the second you started talking." It turns some girls on, and some off. My personality during the day is very Ari Gold, but by necessity.)
- Education
- Ability to contribute stuff to society, write well, or do anything of value
- Ability to have deep, meaningful conversations (save these for your male friends; women just want to be gamed and entertained)

A lot of my friends who are DJs or waiters get laid more than my rich and often stylish lawyer friends. They're just more fun to be around and less pompous. A lot of guys who have money, a career, and a solid education act like they're entitled to women wanting to fuck them. It doesn't work like that.

If you're trying to "lead" with what you have to "offer", you've already lost the game. You're offering your time, and your cock. Both are valuable commodities.

Post: #24

(11-22-2017 08:10 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 07:44 PM)juicebox Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 07:33 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'great cards'?

Sorry for the late reply. I have a busy schedule.

I mean I am tall, in shape, well educated, not terrible aesthetics, polite, well spoken etc etc. Turns out none of that is worth too much. Incidentally, I had an impossible exam on Tuesday which makes me question if I want do become a Dr.

On paper not a bad hand (I think we can all agree), but results are minimal.

None of that matters.

In order...

1. Game (your ability to interact with women. To quote The Rational Male, you have to be a guy who "gets it." https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/)
2. Charisma (your ability to make other men respect you)
3. Height (some women simply will not be physically attracted to short guys. Taller, good looking guys can get away with a lot of shit us average schlubs would get blown out for).
4. Style (and smell). Be a bartender, a high powered lawyer, a DJ, a cowboy, whatever. Don't be a schlub in dad jeans and sneakers. ("Be better than the Gap" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zckciw8lD1k).
5. Fitness (if you're short, fitness is a must. You can get girls if you're short, but you can't be fat too).

Stuff I've found doesn't matter...

- Money
- Profession (I've had many people say "I knew you were a lawyer from the second you started talking." It turns some girls on, and some off. My personality during the day is very Ari Gold, but by necessity.)
- Education
- Ability to contribute stuff to society, write well, or do anything of value
- Ability to have deep, meaningful conversations (save these for your male friends; women just want to be gamed and entertained)

A lot of my friends who are DJs or waiters get laid more than my rich and often stylish lawyer friends. They're just more fun to be around and less pompous. A lot of guys who have money, a career, and a solid education act like they're entitled to women wanting to fuck them. It doesn't work like that.

If you're trying to "lead" with what you have to "offer", you've already lost the game. You're offering your time, and your cock. Both are valuable commodities.

Thanks for this insight. It offers a deeper critique of my [lack of] game than anything else so far. Maybe this 'entitlement' comes through and loses me otherwise likely notches?

Post: #25

(11-22-2017 08:18 PM)juicebox Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 08:10 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(11-22-2017 07:44 PM)juicebox Wrote:  

(11-02-2017 07:33 PM)Rhyme or Reason Wrote:  Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'great cards'?

Sorry for the late reply. I have a busy schedule.

I mean I am tall, in shape, well educated, not terrible aesthetics, polite, well spoken etc etc. Turns out none of that is worth too much. Incidentally, I had an impossible exam on Tuesday which makes me question if I want do become a Dr.

On paper not a bad hand (I think we can all agree), but results are minimal.

None of that matters.

In order...

1. Game (your ability to interact with women. To quote The Rational Male, you have to be a guy who "gets it." https://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/)
2. Charisma (your ability to make other men respect you)
3. Height (some women simply will not be physically attracted to short guys. Taller, good looking guys can get away with a lot of shit us average schlubs would get blown out for).
4. Style (and smell). Be a bartender, a high powered lawyer, a DJ, a cowboy, whatever. Don't be a schlub in dad jeans and sneakers. ("Be better than the Gap" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zckciw8lD1k).
5. Fitness (if you're short, fitness is a must. You can get girls if you're short, but you can't be fat too).

Stuff I've found doesn't matter...

- Money
- Profession (I've had many people say "I knew you were a lawyer from the second you started talking." It turns some girls on, and some off. My personality during the day is very Ari Gold, but by necessity.)
- Education
- Ability to contribute stuff to society, write well, or do anything of value
- Ability to have deep, meaningful conversations (save these for your male friends; women just want to be gamed and entertained)

A lot of my friends who are DJs or waiters get laid more than my rich and often stylish lawyer friends. They're just more fun to be around and less pompous. A lot of guys who have money, a career, and a solid education act like they're entitled to women wanting to fuck them. It doesn't work like that.

If you're trying to "lead" with what you have to "offer", you've already lost the game. You're offering your time, and your cock. Both are valuable commodities.

Thanks for this insight. It offers a deeper critique of my [lack of] game than anything else so far. Maybe this 'entitlement' comes through and loses me otherwise likely notches?

These are my two cents...

Often men who "did everything right" - got an education, speak well, are attractive, well groomed, and have a meaningful career tend to "lead" with that, rather than who they are, or solid game.

In contrast, since degenerates don't have nice things, they tend to woo women by being funny, engaging, and entertaining.

You know who I've found get way more hotter girls?

The degenerates. They're easier to be around, and I've found that they've learned to rely on charisma rather than being boisterous. Women are not physically attracted to your college degree, bank account, or $5k watch, any more than men are attracted to "strong, independent women."

I run in many different social circles, and I find that the men with social status often have horrible game. Not because they're losers or socially inept, but because they think they have to brag about their career, BMW, upcoming trip to Italy, and what fancy college they graduated from all the fucking time. It comes off as insecure, as though they have nothing to offer except money, material possessions, and a college degree.

To be quite frank, even I enjoy hanging around with degenerates more, at least socially. It's nice to be around dudes who can talk about music, can play a guitar, and don't mind hitting up a dive bar for karaoke. I've found that women generally feel the same way. They're more than happy to listen to go on a date with my doctor friends, who drone on about their biochemistry degree over a fine steak dinner, only to leave at 11pm and sleep over in DJ Thundercock's filthy one bedroom apartment.

My advice isn't to become a total loser, it's to develop a focus on charisma and game. Once women are into you as a person, you'll find that their panties become absolutely moist when they learn that you also own a nice house, have money in the bank, speak well, and have a career. They find it even sexier that you didn't "lead" with that, but wear it completely non-chalantly. You're the type of guy who can hang with doctors, lawyers, DJs, tattoo artists, and hot chicks.

Suddenly you're a lot more interesting than DJ Thundercock.