Post: #1

I'm actually really embarrassed posting this.

So I've been seeing this girl for over a year, we've been pretty tight (or at least I thought.. going exclusive discussions, deleting Tinder discussions, facebook relationship status changes, seeing each other about 4 times a week in recent months, I love you's from both of us, her crying with emotion, all that - I mean typing this it doesn't seem to count for much but.. ) .
I'm away from home just now and we agreed that as I was going to be pretty busy we'd aim for two catch ups a week. Of course we talked more than that.
But 10 days ago she suddenly started being sarcastic and indifferent when messaging which was out of character for her. I just sent a sarcastic reply back - "fuck it, whatever.."
She came back a day later saying "I'm sorry I was rude, I love you and I miss you."

Okay so.. more texts and a long phone call after that and then we were chatting pretty amicably the other day and she got sarcastic again, said she was finding it hard missing me, didn't like me being away, she stopped replying to my pretty run of the mill messages and I have heard zero, zip, zilch, nada from her since that aborted conversation.

I check her statuses and she's on the internet every day but for a week its been nothing and I can feel how effective ghosting is.

I am totally mystified.

(I mean maybe there's someone else or she wants to act like a hoe out of nowhere - if that is the case then I've seriously misjudged her but Good Riddance) it just doesn't make any sense to me.

From my side I get that the likelihood is I'm about to be dumped.

I've read Heartiste's and this forum's advice so I've got my flippant, friendly 'no worries, take it easy" style reply saved on my phone for reply when she texts that == and then I will immediately block her on all apps, next her from my life and move on.

I mean I am annoyed. I'm furious with her that after we knew each other for two years and have now been dating for another year-and-a-bit, she was telling me about how she wanted a family and Ive met her family, and our friends are now our mutual friends, and then she just decides to blank me for a week without saying a word of warning.

I won't speak to her until she contacts me. I just.. it's just > not being able to tell her what a c* *t she's being, either now or in the future (because I'm going to be giving her karma as a dish served cold), that frustrates me.

I mean I could just pre-empt her and dump her now and then block her before she can come back but I don't want to jump the gun just for the sake of a bit of insecurity.

Maybe (alright mayyybbeeee...) her Mum's been sick and it's all been crazy: I just don't understand the silence in that case.
For the sake of a week and some pride that I'll soon get back I will give it a chance to play itself out as either one thing or another.

I mean if I'm not about to be dumped (plan already in place) then I don't even know what the f--- she's playing at.

maybe I'll hear her out then dump her but..

any advice greatly appreciated

Post: #2

Get a new girlfriend.

Post: #3

Read on mind projection fallacy and similar biases. Us, men often fall to a trap of:

1) thinking girls think and feel the way we do,

2) taking words pro bono and at face value, and ignoring more important cues - behavioural cues,

3) and having limited (or none) understanding of evolutionary psychology and its ramifications.

I urge you to read an enlightening article, titled Mate switching hypothesis by one of the best evolutionary psychologist, David Buss. Here's a quote from the article:

"[...] According to the mate-switching hypothesis, scanning for alternative mates remains activated even among those in happy relationships. Sometimes that tracking occurs at low levels when newly available mates appear or when a potential mate’s attraction or interest increases. Sometimes it gets activated at high levels, as when a woman becomes increasingly dissatisfied with her regular mate and wants out of the relationship [...]"

If you think, you understood it, I invite you to re-read it again, until it sinks to the bottom of your mind. And heart.

Also known as - female hypergamy. Please, read Heartiste's post on hypergamy with him linking to Peterson's YouTube talk.

Have you watched and read? Good. Now you know - you play with fire, you can get burned by fire, and you did. Nothing to blame yourself about it. It is, what it is. Women are evolutionarily programmed to be always on the lookout for a better, bigger deal to secure best possible genes and socioeconomic future for her offsprings.

Basically, for whatever reason (the girl in question might even struggle herself to verbalise why she's behaving the way she is), you stopped being shiny enough.

You can't blame a dog for being a dog, can you? You can't expect dog to do un-dog things. Same with women. We've got fed through media and Hollywood women are certain way but they are't THAT way. You can't project on a woman your standards. They say one thing, do another. I could write a lot more but if you peruse certain forum posts, read Heartiste, read Buss, watch Peterson, you should stitch up an image showing you REALITY of human mating and their strategies.

The only reasonable thing you can do, is to move on. Go out, and fuck three girls, as soon as possible.

Trust me, that's the best thing you can do. Myself, I was where you are now - not exactly but close enough to know it's hard. Many other men have very similar stories to tell... It can be painfully hard but that's the best you can do. Trying to get upper hand after the milk is spilt, thinking of a revenge, replaying "key" moments in you mind over and over and over ago will bring you no happiness whatsoever. If you need to, get angry, scream for a day, hit weights really hard, get drunk, talk things through with your best mate, then get a few drinks and reverse female strategy that to "get over a man is to get under another one." Go out, fuck some sluts.

You've just experienced what, at certain stage in life, majority of men, in one way or another experienced but there's nothing mysterious about it, really. Hypergamous nature of women says it all. It's a brutal world, out there, I'm afraid.

Post: #4

It could be that she is mad at herself for missing you and is trying to project nonexistent strength through sarcasm.

Post: #5

Two possibilities:

1) She's very mad and very jealous at you for being away, but doesn't want to demonstrate that because in her mind that'd be "losing", so she just shuts down.

2) She's seeing someone else.

I'd bet on 2). Move on.

She'll show up again in a couple of months saying she was confused and she missed you terribly. Be strong and ignore her.

Post: #6

I agree with everything that ksbms wrote. I am in a similar position to OP albeit with less invested into the relationship. Having read the forum for a couple years, this is all stuff we basically already know. It is easy to underestimate how strongly we men can rationalize some untrue explanation for seemingly aberrant behavior when we aren't prepared to accept the truth for what it is. Reading something like that can help us to snap out of it, so thank you for your post ksbms.

I am thankful for the knowledge afforded to me by the forum. It won't always help to save a sinking ship, but at least I know enough to conduct myself with dignity from this point on and preserve my self respect, and to avoid trying to cling on like some desperate obsequious beta.

Post: #7

Girls can turn on a dime with men.

There's a ton of different things you're fretting about her.....but for no reason.

Your head is racing a million miles per second, you're thinking about all these different scenarios, your heart goes from anger to despair.

We know, we've all been through it.

What you need to do at this point is clear your head, take a deep breath, and go worry about yourself.


Get your emotions together, don't worry about her, and at this point initiate the Do Not Contact Rule

If you feel like reaching out to her, write in this thread or the thread I linked.

It's a losing battle trying to reach out to her - and I guarantee you if you hold your ground and don't contact her, she WILL reach out to you.

In the low chance she doesn't, then you have your answer.

I have a feeling you're a young guy along with your girl (based on your writing style).

Stay focused on yourself, go workout, focus on work/college, and keep yourself busy.

Post: #8

(12-04-2017 11:44 AM)lazy Wrote:  2) She's seeing someone else.

I'd bet on 2). Move on.

She'll show up again in a couple of months saying she was confused and she missed you terribly. Be strong and ignore her.

Correct. Have had this happen multiple times.

One actually went so far as to brag about how she had to cut me off because her ex-fiance wanted her back and she was so happy about their future together. I was admittedly salty since we were planning to meet up soon, told her to fuck off and quit wasting my time with games.

Four months later, my text messages light up. Pumped-and-dumped again.

"ARE YOU GOING TO HATE ME FOREVER? I MADE A HUGE MISTAKE. YOU MADE ME FEEL THIS TALL: _"

Don't take her bitch-talk about heaving with genuine feelings seriously, OP. It's messing with you. Just go bang elsewhere.

Post: #9

1. All women are crazy

2. C'Est la Vie

Post: #10

Second Kaotic, unfortunately the only response to ghosting is counter-ghosting.

But I think the problem goes deeper. Your relationship started off on the wrong foot. You should never have to discuss going exclusive with a girl. It should be a natural progress. If you take "the talk" as the proof that you are in a LTR, it is dead on arrival.

Get your shit together, go see your buddies or go make new buddies. Either that girl comes back or she doesn't, your life will go on.

Post: #11

Did you screen her?
What's her lay count?
Does she have smoking/drinking problems?
How did she grow up?

I feel like you would have seen this coming from miles away if you have screened her properly...
Is this one of your first relationships? How much experience you have with girls?

Post: #12

Next the cunt and move on.

It's low-class behavior. If she was really interested in you she wouldn't be leaving you alone.

Post: #13

(12-04-2017 11:44 AM)lazy Wrote:  Two possibilities:

1) She's very mad and very jealous at you for being away, but doesn't want to demonstrate that because in her mind that'd be "losing", so she just shuts down.

2) She's seeing someone else.

I'd bet on 2). Move on.

She'll show up again in a couple of months saying she was confused and she missed you terribly. Be strong and ignore her.

What the shit is up with this negativity? I don't know you or how experienced you are, but you really don't have enough info here to put this idea into OP's head, so bring it down a notch until you do.

And personally, I'd bet on one to be a closer possibility.

Too many negative posts in this thread. Yeah, she's being an idiot, but women are often over-emotional and childish, and it doesn't necessarily mean she's out sucking someone's pete. If there's one thing the game portion of this forum could work on as a group it is practicing a little more responsibility in advising other men on how to manage their women, especially in being more conservative when injecting power into the fears, doubts, and insecurities every man already has regarding the possibility his chick is unfaithful.

I think a lot of men come here already jaded and angry with women so they project their resentment into the advice they give, and as understandable as that may be, you're playing with another man's life and relationship here. Women do have more power than men to be angry and silent without resorting to infidelity. She may even be so worked up and kicking herself in the ass based on her own actions that the last thing on her mind is other men. All in all, it's advisable to exercise a bit of caution unless it's one of the cases where the infidelity is completely clear.

My opinion? She's acting like a child. She's trying to get her way and make herself feel in control to subdue her own emotions. She's feeling insecure and trying to get you to break down and "prove" your love to her.

Not that I'd give it to her at this point. If you think she's worth the trouble, I'd just ignore her and eventually she'll go nuts and break down and reach out to you. If not, good riddance.

Also, two questions:

1) How old is she?

2) Is she on her period?

Check out a book on Amazon called "What Women Want When They Test Men." It looks self-published but I personally think it's a brilliant book (I read it twice in one go), and you'll probably find some insights in there. Actually, here's the link (no, not affiliated): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JV8...UTF8&psc=1

Tests are an inevitable part of dealing with women, and usually they don't realize they're doing it. The way you respond to them is very important and not always easy to determine, but that is the game. It generally comes down to the underlying motivation - some tests are designed to ascertain your level of commitment while others are designed to ascertain if you're a pussy who will let her walk all over you. Both make sense on an evolutionary level: women both need to know that a man is not going to leave at the slightest sign of trouble and that he is strong enough to lead her (a man that lets her walk over him will also let other people walk over him).

Some women test you so much they are not worth keeping around, yes, but I don't think we have enough information yet to draw that conclusion here.

Whatever the case may be, if you do keep her around, you need to explain to her in no uncertain terms that you will not accept a complete ghost on her part again in the future.

Speak to her in a level adult manner - no childish "whatever fuck it" tests that reveal emotional instability and stoop to her level. "Hiding" emotion while broadcasting the emotion at the same time - as in acting like you don't care while making it obvious you do - is passive aggressive and feminine. I won't pretend I haven't made this mistake my share of times, but this does not make you a leader in her eyes.

The goal is to be forceful and straightforward but unemotional.

Manly, in other words.

You get these things right out on the table and tell her exactly how they will be dealt with. In some cases dealing with it may require bending a bit in her direction, and with certain issues that's fine. Yes, even "alphas" sometimes must make a little effort to appease their woman's emotions if a long-term relationship is his goal. But whatever you do, you must send a clear message when her behavior is unacceptable and sit down to hash out what's really bothering her one way or another.

It's possible her ghost may be a forgivable offense (I'm not necessarily saying it is, especially if it does turn out she's playing the field, but it's possible); however, that doesn't mean you don't need to put your foot down hard and establish that you won't accept it anymore in the future.

You have to realize that women are not men and do not think like men. They are highly emotional beings, and if you want to keep them around for the long-term, that means learning to manage them correctly. The good and the bad. The first part is learning to manage yourself and your own emotions - don't let them get a rise out of you.

It's a constant balance of leading and correcting behavior - if you expect it will always go smooth, you have a long road ahead and are already losing the relationship game.

I'll wrap this up with a quote from the book I mentioned:

Quote:I know this all sounds quite philosophical and perhaps even a bit esoteric, but believe me when I tell you that one of the most valuable qualities you can develop as a man is to learn how to remain unmoved by the various tests life throws at you. Getting a grip on your emotions and overcoming your fears will make you an unmovable rock when life throws a few storms at you. But we have to start somewhere, and what better place to start than when dealing with the opposite sex? [...] If you want to remain steadfast not only as you relate with women but in other areas of your life, you must learn to embrace rejection and enjoy conflict.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #14

(12-04-2017 03:28 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  What the shit is up with this negativity? I don't know you or how experienced you are, but you really don't have enough info here to put this idea into OP's head, so bring it down a notch until you do.

And personally, I'd bet on one to be a closer possibility.

Too many negative posts in this thread. Yeah, she's being an idiot, but women are often over-emotional and childish, and it doesn't necessarily mean she's out sucking someone's pete. If there's one thing the game portion of this forum could work on as a group it is practicing a little more responsibility in advising other men on how to manage their women, especially in being more conservative when injecting power into the fears, doubts, and insecurities every man already has regarding the possibility his chick is unfaithful.

I think a lot of men come here already jaded and angry with women so they project their resentment into the advice they give, and as understandable as that may be, you're playing with another man's life and relationship here. Women do have more power than men to be angry and silent without resorting to infidelity. She may even be so worked up and kicking herself in the ass based on her own actions that the last thing on her mind is other men. All in all, it's advisable to exercise a bit of caution unless it's one of the cases where the infidelity is completely clear.

It's my understanding that the OP wasn't in a exclusive relationship yet:

Quote:going exclusive discussions, deleting Tinder discussions

OP sees the girl as his girlfriend, but before she's clearly agreed to be his novia, she wouldn't be technically cheating if she were seeing someone else. That's an opportunity for her to get back at him for being unavailable without being technically in the wrong.

Do women have power to be angry and silent without resorting to infidelity? Yes. On the other hand, it's also much easier for them to be unfaithful. Guys are constantly approaching them. All they have to do is say "yes".

You could say I'm feeding into male insecurities, but how many of us were delusional chumps before becoming more experienced with women? Some guys run into conclusions very quickly, but some guys turn a blind eye to everything and only find out when it's way too late. How do you know which one the OP is? The kind of advice you give depends on how risk averse you are. I did contemplate the possibility that she's just being crazy like all women are, but personally, I'd rather be safe than sorry. It's exceedingly rare for infidelity to be "completely clear". Usually what you have is a gut feeling plus tangential evidence. What do you do? I've found that my gut was right every single time.

I agree with you on the main point, though. I was too negative and should have been more conservative, as the OP just hasn't given enough information. Especially considering he's a young guy. Sorry about that.

Post: #15

@BB fantastic post.

What made you write this and be confident that she could be cheating?

I would like to know this as what follows is just speculation.

It's probably her mom, Spanish girls are very attached to their mothers. It could be the way that she deals with this. Maybe find out from a friend what's going on with her mom.

Like BB said above, it could be one of a million different reasons and she is taking it out on you. If she is having a shitty day/week and you not being there makes it worse then it's expected her chick-brain will blame you for the whole thing (there must be a psychological term for this, the blaming). She's being a child as BB mentioned it.

As for how you deal with it, BB also touched on that indirectly (don't be a child to her child) - Transactional Analysis as explained by Eric Berne in Games People Play.

As this is a game forum though, assume it's cheating as it's the elephant in the room. People go through shit man and women are women, they deal with it in ridiculous, haphazard ways like this (both cheating for validation + withdrawing when they are feeling emotionally unstable)

It's not the right way to deal with it (or express it in a relationship) and you need to lay down the law (your inability to do so led to this) but if she is cheating, what changes? You aren't in the same country even. You can't stop anything, you can only control your own actions.

It's obvious you feel that you can't trust her so just step out of this, do your own thing and revisit it when you get back home. Who knows, you might meet someone. Otherwise, this seed that you have planted is just gonna grow and manifest into something irrational, you're going to become bitter. I am not saying break up, I am saying focus on some other shit for now and let her re-initiate. You can do what you want to do as you feel necessary without any external influence. Most guys would kill for a girlfriend that messages like twice a week

Do you think she is cheating vs is she actually cheating becomes the same thing and doesn't matter if you invest in it long enough.

Then again, I could be completely mistaken and you going away = you going to university and her staying at home or going to university which begs, why are you in a relationship?

See what's up with her mother and if it seems fishy, tell her you're going on a break and she can contact you when she is bothered to elaborate (no bullshit).

Post: #16

No rocket science here. Other than you betraying her or she has heavy (even if unfounded) suspicions that you are betraying her, there is no other reason for her to ghost you than she already betrayed you or is in the verge of it.

Post: #17

Thanks for your answers. As to the questions. At work but I will try and answer some.

There aren't that many jobs where I am. she's 26.

Shes on her period as we speak. Seems a little bit paranoid about what Im up to. Period week she tends to go silent and moody.

We dated for a long time.. Well February 2016. She seemed indifferent so I went off abroad and banged the shit out of alot of chick's. Came back November 2016 and we started seeing each other properly.

I insisted that it was an open relationship. I banged alot of chick's, had a lot of fun. No doubt she did her thing although I have no real proof because I said "I don't care what either of us does but the other person shouldn't hear about it". Not kidding myself that she doesn't enjoy sex with other guys she's attracted to. She kept telling me that she was finding it hard, I said well.. : / so ?

I went abroad this summer she came and stayed with me. It was great. She mentioned she'd stopped meeting up with other guys because she didn't like it. Said that she found our open status hard. I ignored her comments. I was happy and.. Don't ask, don't tell.

Got to the point where she was saying I hate this, I was thinking I want to go exclusive anyway hence "deleting Tinder, changing Facebook, status, going exclusive agreement" conversations.

She is / was very angry at me for going away again. She's coming out to see me soon.

One previous serious boyfriend from 18 to 23 that she got very jealous and paranoid about : unpleasant break up and she moved home.

She's home educated, we met at a Buddhist meditation retreat, very close to her Mum who is a trained counselor and talks her through shit. She said that she needed to spend time with her Mum because her life was lacking direction and that she would most probably be a lot more positive once she'd worked out what she wanted career wise. She was on her way to her Mums when she went ghost. She's actually been off the Internet (from what I can see) for the last 36 hours.

I don't feel qualified to say if this is "she's a hoe, next" or "she's just in a mood." hence this post. I appreciate the different view points and the thought that has gone into them.

Post: #18

(12-04-2017 08:05 PM)Bienvenuto Wrote:  Not kidding myself that she doesn't enjoy sex with other guys she's attracted to. She kept telling me that she was finding it hard, I said well.. : / so ?

So at this time you weren't with her exclusively and she went out to bang like 3+ guys?

If her total lay count is above 3~5, do not LTR bro...

Post: #19

dude shes got at least one other cock in her rn. shes gone. there's no excuse for what she did. dont take her back.

Post: #20

Open relationship....

Damn, OP, would have been good to have that info up front.

You made your bed, buddy. I'm not saying it's impossible to make these situations work, but you certainly can't be too surprised or upset when they blow up and backfire.

In most cases you will eventually lose her enthusiasm for this type of thing.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #21

After dating for almost two years, it's tough to simply "next" her without some sort of resolution. So, establish your own resolution. Send your final text: "Since I've not heard back from you in a long time, I assume we're done. Thanks for the memories."

Then, you can take all the steps that are necessary for you to move on.

Best wishes.

Post: #22

I'm quoting this from another thread.

(11-28-2017 09:07 AM)TravelerKai Wrote:  ...
It is worth repeating this over and over. Guys, in a LTR, after the first two years, if you do not marry the woman, they grow increasingly more and more bitter with each passing year. You will drag them to the altar, but the damage is already done.

I know this first hand because I made that mistake as well and like the research says, most marriages do not go past the first two years. This dude dated a woman for 6 fucking years, engaged one, and married two. Once married he still did not or (was not able to) fully validate her existence with children. She was too cold to care. She had long spoiled out.

I don't care if she and you started dating in high school and want college degrees first. If you do not marry her early, she is not validated, and her emotional fitness (for being a wife) will scatter like chaff in the wind. Then you likely have only a few years to get her children to stabilize her emotionally and mentally. If she is older than you, you are already gambling on house money.

Again to recap, once you get to the two year mark on an LTR, let em go unless you want to marry them.

Key paragraph from OP.

Quote:I mean I am annoyed. I'm furious with her that after we knew each other for two years and have now been dating for another year-and-a-bit, she was telling me about how she wanted a family and Ive met her family, and our friends are now our mutual friends, and then she just decides to blank me for a week without saying a word of warning.

In her head she will consider the 2 year "courting period" as part of the overall relationship. To her she's been invested in you on some scale for over three years. She's been talking about starting a family. You've converged your tribal circles.

She's 26 and in the process of hitting the wall as well as seeing out her most fertile years childless. Two years a friend and one in the sack is about enough time to make an educated guess as to whether she's going to be your girlfriend until her looks wither entirely and her ovaries dry up.

Quote:One previous serious boyfriend from 18 to 23...

Once bitten, twice shy. Your absence has probably been a stark reminder that you're currently not on track to bring her familial fulfilment on a suitable timeline. Currently she faces a difficult choice of whether to start all over again or keep hoping for the best while her looks and fertility fade.

Go back and read the first quote. It will now make more sense.

A woman with a (relatively) low notch count tossing her lackadaisical boyfriend to the curb because he wont give her children is not indicative of her being a bitch. It's indicative of her having her priorities straight (if not a little late for some).

Just one possibility to consider...

Post: #23

Started open. We're now exclusive and have been for a while. Talking about starting a family together. We are both serious (or at least were as far as last week).

Hope that clarifies things.

Post: #24

Go to the gym, focus on other girls, and have sex with ten different women. Once you start fucking other women she will attempt to come back because in her mind if other women are fucking you, perhaps she made a mistake. When she tries to come back torture her-treat her like shit, demand threesomes with her friends, refuse to recommit until she "proves herself worthy" and run her ragged. Then laugh as some other man attempts to put that mess back together.

Feel like I am wrong, and you think you want that bitch back?- understand this , she is fucking another dude right now telling him all the secrets about you that you told her. Go out and get other pussy, it is the only way to get her back so you can get back at her. Fuck that bitch....

Post: #25

(12-04-2017 10:53 PM)Atlanta Man Wrote:  Go to the gym, focus on other girls, and have sex with ten different women. Once you start fucking other women she will attempt to come back because in her mind if other women are fucking you, perhaps she made a mistake. When she tries to come back torture her-treat her like shit, demand threesomes with her friends, refuse to recommit until she "proves herself worthy" and run her ragged. Then laugh as some other man attempts to put that mess back together.

Feel like I am wrong, and you think you want that bitch back?- understand this , she is fucking another dude right now telling him all the secrets about you that you told her. Go out and get other pussy, it is the only way to get her back so you can get back at her. Fuck that bitch....

Black pill at its finest.

But maybe this is just what the OP need at the moment.