Post: #1

At every stage of the player's journey, there enters a feeling of being dissatisfied with women and dating. [Warning this turned out to be longer than I expected.]

Beginning: I can't get girls to talk to me, girls laugh at my jokes but won't come home and bang. I buy them dinner and they ghost.
Middle: I can get 5/6s but nothing better. Older hitting-the-wall chicks want me but not younger ones. All the hot girls are on social media looking at their phone, not me.
Advanced: Hot club sluts used to excite me now I find them vapid and boring. Game is feeling more and more like a waste of my time. All girls are slutty.

We've all felt this way at times and/ or know guys that are going through these issues at RVF or in the real world. It's time to get real here.

Many of these feelings are a reflection of how we really feel about ourselves: If we have no/bad Game and cannot get a date, we blame women when it's our own fault.

So we improve our game a little, we fake some confidence, start going to the gym, look women in the eye and approach them. That gets us in the door. It's like climbing a mountain until you get to that first plateau when you can rest and have some success.
We've only gotten the very basics down and our SMV is still low. We cannot get what we want & we're still unhappy - rightly so.

Now we get to the next level & have no fears of talking to women in bars and coffeeshops, kinoing, sexualizing the conversation. On a good day we can build attraction and comfort. SDLs are no longer a myth.

However, many of us strive for better results - the hereto elusive 8-9s. [We still don't think we can ever get a 10 yet]. Looking average is no longer acceptable to us - we have to get in good shape such that others will notice, start to notice what well-dressed guys wear and emulate them, ditch the blue polo and khakis. Our conversation needs to become more interesting than just chick crack and opening gambits to elicit a reaction.

We look in the mirror and our SMV is average, mediocre. Maybe our career is stalled and that unhappiness blends into social events. Or we don't work very hard/often and we spend our days worrying about money. We lack confidence to approach a gorgeous woman.

Women can size you up in 10 seconds and if you don't measure up, it's not their fault, it's yours! You don't go out to buy a new Lexus and come home with a used Hyundai minivan do you? #AWALT

How we feel about ourselves is also a reflection on how the women around us make us feel. This is an important concept rarely discussed at RVF.

We wake up with a 140 pound 6 we picked up last night and don't really feel excited, even if she was a slumpbuster. You don't feel like seeing her again unless you get a booty call and you're at home playing scrabble with your turtle. It doesn't feel like we won even though we banged some new pussy.

Those dedicated to getting advanced at Game keep at it: they have their career on lock, they go out often to pickup day/nite, women compliment how they dress, they seek to understand exactly how women tick, date in new pools of talent, they #Next those who are red/yellow light girls.

Now the 8/9s are attainable when you get 'lucky' and then on a more consistent basis, girls casually mention they want to blow you in the bathroom or be tied up or anal, come over and cook you dinner, are cool with being fuckbuddies, 3somes. You become known for dating models in your circle.

Finally, we get the dreaded 'Player's fatigue.' Going out all the time is boring. I can bang a new hot girl every weekend but I feel...stuck. I want a wife and kids someday or at least a wife. Time I spend chasing girls could be spent with friends or developing a side biz. Sure I've banged over 100 women, but now what?

We look in the mirror and our reflection stares back at us. Were we trying to be happy or just trying to get laid all this time? Is all I've accomplished being able to fill a wet hole...do I surround myself with chicks who have nothing in their life other than FB, IG and Snap? What do I really see when I look at myself...an insecure adolescent?

These chicks don't make us feel good inside for a long period of time. We're not happy to be around them for more than a couple hours a week, max. Maybe to only show her off and make other guys jealous. It's even possible that we sometimes have 4 or 5 of them in a harem -- but care for none of them.
So many times guys at RVF have remarked that they feel like they found the 'cheat code' to getting laid on the reg. How much fun is cheating at golf to win? or poker?

There are two ways to graduate out of game: One is to become the best man you can be -- physically, mentally, socially, fashionably, artistically, monetarily -- and have the confidence to know who you are, what you want, and whom you're willing to spend your time with. You can take or leave any hot woman that walks by without needing to prove yourself. You're fully independent and don't need a date or a lay this weekend to be happy.

The better way to win is to be interdependent: Not only are you the best man you can be as above, with inner game is on lock, you look in the mirror and a happy, smiling dude looks back at you and winks like a rogue.

You also spend your time with a woman who makes you feel better about yourself. Your good feelings about yourself are amplified by her. Call it 'wife material' if you wish. Someone you'd let have your kids, loyal and smart and funny and hardworking and loves pleasing you in different ways. You actually miss her when she's gone. #NAWALT.





tl/dr; Outer game has to be right, Inner game tight, and the women around you need to increase your well-being. Otherwise you feel like you're lacking something important or unhappy with your dating results.

Post: #2

What's the alternative, getting a girlfriend? If you're a young guy you'll get bored pretty quick of that too, even if you love her initially. At least I do. Women are there to fulfill essential needs; not to give your life meaning.

The game is boring and a waste of time, but you have no choice.

Until you're old and your sexual urges go way down, only then can you settle down.

I think that's the issue, our very nature to pump and dump. It's created the society we live in today.

Post: #3

^^^Strong first post, not sure if trolling but I'll bite.

Game IS NOT boring and a waste of time.

If it is, I'd love a detailed explanation from you.

Game is a way of LIFE - it's not just limited to gaming females.

It literally is in every aspect of your life, from family to your friends, to being in sales.

It's everywhere - and you need to be the best you can be to take as much advantage of this world you can.

Game is as boring as you make it, like Donny is saying, it's a reflection of yourself.

Men still want to fuck young hot tight pussy, even when they're older.

Sex drive usually goes down because the guy with low sex drive isn't taking care of himself and isn't game.

So his potential pussy pool is of low quality stock and he's discourage and/or out of the market in getting girls he wants (no game).

Women can complement your life, it's up to you to fulfill your life.

Post: #4

^^
Well it has its moments.. I guess my post did sound a bit grim.


As far as getting your life together, I'd say it's completely unrelated to women -- the passion you have for your work should be more than enough to motivate you.

How old are you? If what you say is true then I'll be cheating on my future wife... I would've hoped there would come a time where urges dissipate and there is no longer a desire to pump and dump.

Post: #5

I agree, only you can fix yourself and improve yourself.

Women can support you in certain ways, there is nothing wrong with that.

I'm around 30, but I know player's older than me in their 40's and 50's in shape, successful, chasing young tail.

Some never got married, some are divorced and have kids.

But if you they can do it, it's possible.


To me I'm realizing lately that life is alot more than some pussy, it's more about living life and enjoying the people who are along for the ride.

Post: #6

Game itself has no meaning. It's a tool. The purpose of this tool is to attract women. The more refined the usage of the tool, the higher quality the women. Like a chainsaw, game is a fun tool to use. But still, it's just a tool, devoid of meaning.

What gives meaning to life is having a greater purpose - objectives. And there's an important observation here: game can aid you in some objectives. For example, one of my objectives in life is to be a patriarch with a big farm, 15 kids and a recognisable surname. So the main reason why I'm interested in game is increasing the quality of women I can attract, in the hope that I'll be able to catch a good wife.

Maybe your objective in life is to make a breakthrough in microbiology. In that case game isn't particularly useful to what you're trying to do. If you choose to completely ignore women, I won't judge you for it. But if you want a woman for stress relief, psychological support or just loving someone, game could still be useful to you.

Lastly, game can be a hobby. Who doesn't enjoy fucking hot girls? You can keep pursuing whatever objectives you have, and still have fun practicing game on the side. I guess the problem the OP is pointing out is some people get too absorbed in the fun aspect and don't do anything else with their lives. I can see how one would grow increasingly dissatisfied with girls in that situation.

Personally, I'm going through the "middle" stage the OP mentioned. I'm tired of these god damn 6s. I want to be with beautiful girls. But I frequently remind myself of the larger goal I'm pursuing, and it helps a lot.

Post: #7

^^
Absolutely, we should all be looking for quality rather than quantity, but preferably quality at quantity.

Post: #8

After a good amount of investment and experience, it comes down to access which comes down to environment.

In a bad environment, finding the best or optimal way to do this is the question at hand. And sort of the point of this forum, as I see it.

Oh, and being realistic about where you are right now (not that you can't ascend) is key. Honest self assessment and reflection is the best way to manage expectations.

Post: #9

DonnyGately,

That was profound. Thanks for posting this. I've gone through these stages, regressed backward through them, and then went through them again. Or maybe it's a cycle? Sometimes all I want to do is bang a dozen chicks, other times I have no interest in anything other than running my biz and spending time with my girlfriend. Sometimes I want both and struggle.

But one thing is for sure. I cannot deny my biological urge to procreate. So a wife and kids is looking more and more like where I am heading into my later years of life.

Again, a refreshingly honest and introspective post from you DG, as opposed to all these humble brags you've been posting +1 for you.

Post: #10

Seems like a male feminist mentality. A male feminist being a man who cannot compete and therefore panders in hope of manipulating a woman into seeing he is of anything of value.

The same message is pedaled in society. PC Culture promotes not judging, no fat or sloot shame, and turning a whore into a house wife. Several MGTOWs are the by product of following that beaten path.

There is an abundance of low status women, single moms, high kill count, and cratered SMV. The fact that cucks will continue to raise some bastard man's children not to mention, the promo for single mother victimhood, there is simply no fallout for being a whore. Low testosterone males will still marry her.


I got drunk dialed by a woman last summer. I was pursuing her like 5yrs ago. Of course, her drunk dial is the by product of cratered SMV, of playboy stop calling, and her best days coming over. Now, IF i was on a dry spell, I would have made it hammer time but, a 21yr older was giving me a throater at that time. Young/thin/attractive top form SMV or NEXT SET!

Post: #11

There's something to the old Groucho Marx saying "I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member".

The one thing I've realized, though, is that even when you don't have a lot of leverage in the sexual marketplace, that it's far better to be selective than to just jump on the first woman who responds favorably. It's gotta be about quality over quantity, and if that means holding out longer, then so be it.

The most unpleasant experience for me is having to deal with relationship drama in a dysfunctional relationship: the walls of text, the pressure to move the relationship faster/farther than I want, the inevitable "I love you" litmus test. Unless I think I'm either with a woman who is super casual or a woman I am really head over heels for, I'm not going to get involved.

Post: #12

Great post DG and I completely agree. I have been through all those stages and I still haven't graduated, although I am getting more towards the settling down stage as I get older.

I am a firm believer that how you feel and look at yourself has to come from within. No person or girl should be necessary for you to respect yourself.
People have to complement your life and add to it, not be the means by which you feel self respect.

You need to get yourself to a point where when you look in the mirror you like what you see and no one else can give you that but you.

Post: #13

I "graduated out of game" in 2016.

Now I spend most of my time focusing on my law practice, real estate deals, jiu jitsu, the gym, etc. I have enough game that meeting women is relatively easy; it's just not a huge priority for me at this time. (Plus my rolodex is big enough that I can make a few calls and find a woman willing to get naked and on her knees within a few hours.)

It took a solid 5 years of women being my top priority in life, though.

Game is most certainly worth learning and pursuing, but once you become good at it, you'll find that women are generally vapid and uninteresting.

The prize for winning the pie eating contest is often more pie.

Post: #14

Lack of satisfaction with girls is a sign of spending time with wrong girls. If you are with cool girl you won't complain.

Also, there might be something wrong about your everyday life that you feel is eating you alive so no matter who you hang out with you will be moody cranky and miserable.

Post: #15

(12-07-2017 07:50 PM)lazy Wrote:  Game itself has no meaning. It's a tool. The purpose of this tool is to attract women. The more refined the usage of the tool, the higher quality the women. Like a chainsaw, game is a fun tool to use. But still, it's just a tool, devoid of meaning.

What gives meaning to life is having a greater purpose - objectives. And there's an important observation here: game can aid you in some objectives. For example, one of my objectives in life is to be a patriarch with a big farm, 15 kids and a recognisable surname. So the main reason why I'm interested in game is increasing the quality of women I can attract, in the hope that I'll be able to catch a good wife.

Maybe your objective in life is to make a breakthrough in microbiology. In that case game isn't particularly useful to what you're trying to do. If you choose to completely ignore women, I won't judge you for it. But if you want a woman for stress relief, psychological support or just loving someone, game could still be useful to you.

Lastly, game can be a hobby. Who doesn't enjoy fucking hot girls? You can keep pursuing whatever objectives you have, and still have fun practicing game on the side. I guess the problem the OP is pointing out is some people get too absorbed in the fun aspect and don't do anything else with their lives. I can see how one would grow increasingly dissatisfied with girls in that situation.

Personally, I'm going through the "middle" stage the OP mentioned. I'm tired of these god damn 6s. I want to be with beautiful girls. But I frequently remind myself of the larger goal I'm pursuing, and it helps a lot.

15 kids? Jesus Christ. Your future wife's pussy is going to make the Carlsbad Caverns look like prairie dog tunnels.

Post: #16

(12-08-2017 10:41 AM)wi30 Wrote:  

(12-07-2017 07:50 PM)lazy Wrote:  Game itself has no meaning. It's a tool. The purpose of this tool is to attract women. The more refined the usage of the tool, the higher quality the women. Like a chainsaw, game is a fun tool to use. But still, it's just a tool, devoid of meaning.

What gives meaning to life is having a greater purpose - objectives. And there's an important observation here: game can aid you in some objectives. For example, one of my objectives in life is to be a patriarch with a big farm, 15 kids and a recognisable surname. So the main reason why I'm interested in game is increasing the quality of women I can attract, in the hope that I'll be able to catch a good wife.

Maybe your objective in life is to make a breakthrough in microbiology. In that case game isn't particularly useful to what you're trying to do. If you choose to completely ignore women, I won't judge you for it. But if you want a woman for stress relief, psychological support or just loving someone, game could still be useful to you.

Lastly, game can be a hobby. Who doesn't enjoy fucking hot girls? You can keep pursuing whatever objectives you have, and still have fun practicing game on the side. I guess the problem the OP is pointing out is some people get too absorbed in the fun aspect and don't do anything else with their lives. I can see how one would grow increasingly dissatisfied with girls in that situation.

Personally, I'm going through the "middle" stage the OP mentioned. I'm tired of these god damn 6s. I want to be with beautiful girls. But I frequently remind myself of the larger goal I'm pursuing, and it helps a lot.

15 kids? Jesus Christ. Your future wife's pussy is going to make the Carlsbad Caverns look like prairie dog tunnels.

I'll switch to anal when the time is right.

Post: #17

In life you either stay where you're at and stagnate, or you grow and evolve into a better man.

And if you depend on fucking 8 or 9's to "get to that next level" then you're doing it wrong.

All women, 5's, 6's, 7's, 8's, and 9's are vapid and boring. Personally I don't look at Game as stages of fucking girls on whatever numerical tier they are on. "Oh, I've fucked 100 6's, NOW I'm ready for all those tasty 8's".

It's a fleeting moment of happiness, no matter how hot they are. Enjoy the moment with the girl, but don't base your sole existence of happiness on them. They are an accessory to your life.

Post: #18

It really in all honesty boils down to this:

"Get busy living, or get busy dying"

Fuck the latter, we should all be living a life as full of possible, females come and ago.

If you find a quality girl, and want kids, then go start a family.

You hate your job? Want that baller lifestyle? Find another job, start your own business.

Every man on this forum should be bettering himself in every way possible.

Life is stagnant where you live? Uproot yourself, move to another city/county/state/country


Life is all about the choices/risks/chances you make or take.

Post: #19

(12-08-2017 02:03 AM)questor70 Wrote:  There's something to the old Groucho Marx saying "I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member".

The one thing I've realized, though, is that even when you don't have a lot of leverage in the sexual marketplace, that it's far better to be selective than to just jump on the first woman who responds favorably. It's gotta be about quality over quantity, and if that means holding out longer, then so be it.

The most unpleasant experience for me is having to deal with relationship drama in a dysfunctional relationship: the walls of text, the pressure to move the relationship faster/farther than I want, the inevitable "I love you" litmus test. Unless I think I'm either with a woman who is super casual or a woman I am really head over heels for, I'm not going to get involved.

Great post. I heard Jordan Peterson talk about Jacob's Ladder biblical series and warned the moral of the story. That being, "don't sacrifice the future for the present." Giving away one's birth right for a bit of foods is shortsighted needless to say. The same goes for pulling low status women or LTRs with single moms raising the alpha males children with a person who when on top form would never give said male the time a day. Its pathetic and cringe worthy.

While I will always advocate for chasing low hanging fruit, it should not be an excuse to not approach or play it safe. Worry about the HIMYM batting average. Wait for the perfect set and approach. Its weak and cowardice at best.

I know a guy. He is on GEAR. In the bar and club, he throws hissy fits, and runs out. Its beer on chest and wall flower. In the gym, its flexing and telling people how natural he is when he is mucking roids. These guys are the absolute worst.

I suppose not losing sight on the prize is the solution. I spam cold approach. I want to pull. I get blow outs. It is a zero sum game. Quality women are few and far between and with the 'sloot gonna sloot' culture, the promo of single mother victimhood, and cucks marrying them raising the alphas bastard children; there is little consequences for poor life choices. Spam cold approach. Seek quality as the higher purpose. It is super sparse at best. In either event, I rather indulge, and see what happens then regret or make up lame excuses for not approaching.