Post: #1

My last five or so first dates resulted in making out, but then text silence when I try to arrange a second date. I even tried setting up second dates verbally during the first date and still no text reply.

This always happens occasionally, but now it’s basically the most likely outcome of a date. What is the cause/is there anything I can do about it?

Post: #2

Yes, don't kiss until you're somewhere with privacy where you can get the bang.

Not sure if you're waiting to kiss when you're saying your goodbyes, but if so that's ultra cringey now a days.

Post: #3

Most RVFers advises against heavy make outs anywhere where you cannot bang. Same goes for setting future dates on the spot, especially first to second date.

As with everything, there are exceptions. But on the average, you'll be better off with the RVF advice above.

Go get'em!

Post: #4

(08-23-2018 05:53 PM)MPD Wrote:  Most RVFers advises against heavy make outs anywhere where you cannot bang. Same goes for setting future dates on the spot, especially first to second date.

As with everything, there are exceptions. But on the average, you'll be better off with the RVF advice above.

Go get'em!

Interesting. Thanks guys.

So what's the optimal way to end a first date? They're typically on a weekday, and my area (northern VA) has terrible logistics.

And what's the logic behind the ghosting?

Post: #5

If you kissed 100 women in public on the first date.

And then you kissed 100 women in the privacy of your own home.

You would eventually come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter where you kiss them.

If I want to kiss a woman on the date, then I'm going to kiss her. If I don't want to kiss her, then I wont.

I control the cards, not her.

Why did they ghost you? Because they didn't like you enough.

It happens to everyone.

Post: #6

I did a thread related to this, and got a lot of great material from many seasoned posters -- /thread-68707.html

Post: #7

If they don't even chit chat with you after you kissed them... It means that you're not creating enough rapport, and moving way too fast! Slow down in your approach... and genuinely get intimate during your dates. Yes I know lots of work... but Hey being a Playa ain't easy!

1 trick that works well, is you're at a Bar for instance, is to ask her to come a little bit closer... And repeat it til she smacks her thighs against yours, and just keep talking like it's nothing. Tell her to keep your warm for a Bit Anything similar that involves some playful physicality will work to increase your level of rapport.

I know this shit sounds silly... but women read the Horoscope... and buy romance novel after all! Gradually build up... and when she'll give you That Look... Slowly go for the Kiss. You'll know She's warmed up good when she also moves forward for the kiss like Uncle Roosh teaches! Then it's smooth sailing from there until you reach LMR!

Since you were able to get plenty of makout without much rapport... It means your looks are above average. After you find your Rapport Formula... And master Last Minute Resistance... You'll Need to have a Condom Budget on Deck cuz you'll be Slayin like Crazy Hehe!

Post: #8

(08-23-2018 11:55 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  If they don't even chit chat with you after you kissed them... It means that you're not creating enough rapport, and moving way too fast! Slow down in your approach... and genuinely get intimate during your dates. Yes I know lots of work... but Hey being a Playa ain't easy!

This is gold advice and aligns exactly with what I noticed over recent months. After the makeout the girl goes away and her hamster gets to work. She reaches the conclusion that you're an evil cad who just wants her for sex. "I hardly know this guy and he had his tongue down my throat".

Post: #9

This has happened to me twice in the past week too. Not quite a full on ghosting, but they stopped chasing.

It's all Variance.

It happens to all of us. You game enough women, you'll have your hot streaks and you'll have your cold streaks. Don't let a few ghosts get you down.

Reflect on it for a minute and learn from any possible mistakes. Then move on.

Post: #10

(08-24-2018 09:21 AM)don_quixote Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 11:55 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  If they don't even chit chat with you after you kissed them... It means that you're not creating enough rapport, and moving way too fast! Slow down in your approach... and genuinely get intimate during your dates. Yes I know lots of work... but Hey being a Playa ain't easy!

This is gold advice and aligns exactly with what I noticed over recent months. After the makeout the girl goes away and her hamster gets to work. She reaches the conclusion that you're an evil cad who just wants her for sex. "I hardly know this guy and he had his tongue down my throat".

Not likely. The modern western girl who is semi attractive or better has been "kissing boys" for over a decade by the time she's in her mid twenties. "Makeouts" in of themselves mean fuck-all to her. As a stand alone its little more than a form of entertainment and validation via attention

To a guy a kiss is a step along the linear line from point A (meeting a girl) to point B (the bang). An its an important one because it's physical intimacy is directly wired into our arousal sequence. Its biological wiring.

But remember: A woman's arousal sequence while similar in many ways is different in several. The main difference is that hers is emotionally primary vs physical primary.

Guys: Physical>Emotional = Arousal

Girls: Emotional > Physical = Arousal

So what is the emotional state that leads women into the physical arousal? The most common term for it is referred to by women as "chemistry". If you and she "just dont have it" you probably wont get your pee pee in her hooha (or a second date)

So what is "chemistry"?

Remember the female psyche is not pre disposed to responsibility for her actions. She's wired to surf along with her emotional currents. So often chemistry is a product of "fate" or "connection" or "the universe".

So learning game is to learn the do's and dont's to create the elusive "chemistry".

Logistics
Style
Fitness
etc....Are some of the "static" components. Think of them as the "stadium" where you play your game.

Some of the "dynamic" components are

Verbal (shit tests and sexualizing convo)
Escalation
Push / pull
Illiciting her compliance / emotional investment
Etc


With practice all of the above becomes easier and easier until its second nature: a muscle memory, so to speak.

All together they are the tactical execution of a strategic plan to create emotional "tingles" as her response. Put enough "tingles" together and she feels it as having "chemistry".

You know your game is on point when after you bang her she says "OMG...I cant believe we did that. I never do that on a first date / so early"

Pro tip: OP your "wanting" a second date is probably leaking into your game. If so it comes across as "needy" and THAT is a tingle killer. Coupled with your making out defusing the sexual tension as several others have previously stated it creates a situation where she knows your going to want sex on the next date. Decreased attraction on her part plus sexual expectations on your part...thats trending in the wrong direction

Post: #11

Are you trying to venue change to your place after kissing them? You can't stop forward progress after the kiss.

Post: #12

I've noticed this too 100%.

My ability to get women attracted to me (and lead to the kiss) is at the highest it's been in my years doing cold approach, yet my conversion to dates and bangs is at its lowest.

As for 'escalating', the last 5 girls I remember making out with ALL declined/resisted moves to other places; some even declined major moves within the fucking venue itself.

These girls just wanna kiss and get validated and that's it.

Post: #13

Have you been talking to most of these girls through nightgame, daygame or online?

Make sure you aren't trying to move too fast, I noticed a similar trend when I was in college after getting out of an LTR and letting loose. I was going out 3 nights a week and talking to plenty of girls and getting easy makeouts but I couldn't get them invested enough to come over to hang out when I would hit them up a few days later.

I figured out after a couple weeks that it was probably from my night game, I would caveman game girls and make plenty of physical progress but honestly couldn't remember anything about them and I didn't try to build interest... because I didn't care enough. When I hit them up there just wasn't enough interest to keep things going, unless that night I dipped down to some 5 who was desperate to get my dick.

I self-corrected and made an effort to build more rapport and invest more time in the girls that seem receptive. If you find yourself in a situation sucking face with a girl at a party or club, just try and move her somewhere else to continue on and get the bang or at least some more privacy than just that. If she's trying to stick her tongue down your throat, make out for a few seconds and bite her lip and pull away, build tension and try to move somewhere more private where you can really have some fun.

In short, girls make out with guys a lot, I've watched girls walk around a party and make out with 5+ guys in an hour. It doesn't really mean much. Don't assume it means that she's THAT into you, you were just there in the right time and place.

Post: #14

Used to have the same problem. With time I realized I was giving too much off a player vibe (i.e. all attraction and no comfort). Girls enjoyed the validation of getting teased, kinoed, and kissed during the date. But next day, upon reflecting coldly on the interaction, they realized they were just the latest piece of meat to cross my way.

I course corrected by mixing in some deep conversation with the fun and the teasing in order to "keep it more real". And this made the problem go away.

Post: #15

(08-23-2018 04:54 PM)Cavorite Wrote:  My last five or so first dates resulted in making out, but then text silence when I try to arrange a second date. I even tried setting up second dates verbally during the first date and still no text reply.

This always happens occasionally, but now it’s basically the most likely outcome of a date. What is the cause/is there anything I can do about it?

i think what is going on here is the anti slut defense. A girl feels as though there wasnt enough of an emotional connection for her to commit to you for a second date....

Post: #16

Linux gives solid advice, I value his point of view a lot, but he only tells half the story.

(Entirely based on his writings) It's clear he operates from a frame of reference similar to your standard physically attractive "alpha". If he wants to kiss a girl, he does. If he wants a girl to come to his pad, he asks. This works because he looks like the guy a girl would envision being with. In the cases where he gets rejected - no big deal, always another girl around the corner.

Its easy to act like the attractive selection when you *are* the attractive selection.

That's his half of the story. Look good, do what you want, and you'll get girls. TRUE. So what about the guys that look "average"? They kiss the girl, invite her back to their place too, but it doesn't seem to work?

That's where the other half of the story comes in. If you want results but don't have the physical attractiveness of the top 10% of men, you need to develop your personality (social awareness, behavior, mannerisms, posture, etc) to compete. Luckily, unlike men, women care about your personality AND looks. Meaning, alter your behavior, and you can alter your results.

Linux is correct when he says they ghost because "they didn't like you enough". BUT, that doesn't mean they didn't like you enough to sleep with you if you were able to better engineer the situation.

Game is like poker, you can tilt the odds in your favor. Can you look attractive, make out with a girl in public, take her home, then bang? Yes, absolutely. Ask Linux.

Are the odds higher if, instead, you sexually tease the girl without kissing and breaking the tension, before telling her to come "try this awesome custom cocktail I make" giving you isolation to go from kiss all the way to bang? Absolutely.

If you cant complete with a dude like Linux in the looks department, you need to learn how to engineer situations, and people, in order to get results (aka game).

I suspect Linux knows this too, I'm sure he sees better looking dudes crash and burn where he would have succeeded. He's successful because he has the behaviors to back it up. The problem is he doesn't write about the subtle nuances of his actions so from the outside looking in its easy to see his results and go "I need to pump iron, looksmax, and do whatever I feel like"

The point behind this post is to show you that you can do things differently and get better results vs the standard advice of "do what you feel like and let the chips fall where they may" because that's only good advice if the deck is stacked in your favor.

(08-23-2018 06:21 PM)LINUX Wrote:  If you kissed 100 women in public on the first date.

And then you kissed 100 women in the privacy of your own home.

You would eventually come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter where you kiss them.

If I want to kiss a woman on the date, then I'm going to kiss her. If I don't want to kiss her, then I wont.

I control the cards, not her.

Why did they ghost you? Because they didn't like you enough.

It happens to everyone.

Post: #17

(08-24-2018 11:03 AM)Roosh Wrote:  Are you trying to venue change to your place after kissing them? You can't stop forward progress after the kiss.

Not practical. These are generally weeknight dates and there is nothing within 15 minutes of my place (Alexandria VA).

I had been viewing the initial makeout as "setting up" sex for our second date on a weekend. But I think my intentions are obvious to them as well.

What I'm taking away from the comments is "keep kissing to a minimum" and "act aloof about the possibility of a second date". I think I'm killing the mystery and being very obvious about my sexual intentions.

Post: #18

Wait you're not trying to bounce them to your place after the date? How do you expect sex to happen?

Post: #19

(08-24-2018 02:33 PM)tr1cky Wrote:  Linux is correct when he says they ghost because "they didn't like you enough".

No he's not. I think he's a smart guy with obviously a lot of experience but he's dead wrong about this. Let's look at this closely. The chick has liked you enough to go on a date with you. She had liked you enough to hang around on a date and not make any excuse to leave (which they will do, without qualms). Finally, the girl has liked you enough to suck face at the end of it. Christ Almighty, what more can one man do? I'm a man with infinitely less options than a chick and if I'm not feeling it on a date she doesn't get any kind of physical escalation, so the idea of a girl kissing you just to kill time is not at all realistic.

If at the end of all of that she "didn't like you enough" to meet up for a second date then there's simply something else at play here.

I have a female friend who I was talking with this week. She met a guy from Tinder who she really likes. She thinks he's hot and fucked him on the third date. Now, get this. She was telling me that she was considering ghosting him because he's "too good looking" and it scares her.

This is crazy female psychology at work. Ghosting is almost never a reflection on you, if you managed to get her out and build attraction for a solid make-out. The problem is almost always with them. This is not ego protection on my part, but an acceptance of the mercurial nature of women.

They may think you were too good for them, or they may have felt like a slut after a make-out, or perhaps they got back with their ex-boyfriend.... so to lay the blame at our feet, as another problem to develop some complex strategy to defeat, is misguided.

Post: #20

(08-24-2018 06:29 PM)griffinmill Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 02:33 PM)tr1cky Wrote:  Linux is correct when he says they ghost because "they didn't like you enough".

No he's not. I think he's a smart guy with obviously a lot of experience but he's dead wrong about this. Let's look at this closely. The chick has liked you enough to go on a date with you. She had liked you enough to hang around on a date and not make any excuse to leave (which they will do, without qualms). Finally, the girl has liked you enough to suck face at the end of it. Christ Almighty, what more can one man do? I'm a man with infinitely less options than a chick and if I'm not feeling it on a date she doesn't get any kind of physical escalation, so the idea of a girl kissing you just to kill time is not at all realistic.

If at the end of all of that she "didn't like you enough" to meet up for a second date then there's simply something else at play here.

I have a female friend who I was talking with this week. She met a guy from Tinder who she really likes. She thinks he's hot and fucked him on the third date. Now, get this. She was telling me that she was considering ghosting him because he's "too good looking" and it scares her.

This is crazy female psychology at work. Ghosting is almost never a reflection on you, if you managed to get her out and build attraction for a solid make-out. The problem is almost always with them. This is not ego protection on my part, but an acceptance of the mercurial nature of women.

They may think you were too good for them, or they may have felt like a slut after a make-out, or perhaps they got back with their ex-boyfriend.... so to lay the blame at our feet, as another problem to develop some complex strategy to defeat, is misguided.

This theory passes the smell test for one or two girls, but not 5 in a row. Either way, it's not productive to chalk it up to "girls being crazy". Game is about adapting to situations and finding the optimal way to deal with all of the variables that are thrown at us.

The thing I like most about this forum is the focus on self-improvement and living your best life. What I despise is the minority of folks who seem to have some sort of axe to grind with women in general.

Post: #21

Yeah even though girls are crazy and they could ghost for any reason, would they ghost on Leonardo DiCaprio? No. So there is always more you can do to improve and reflect on. I think you have to find a healthy balance between "Everything is my fault." and "Meh, nothing more I could have done, bitches are crazy."

Post: #22

(08-24-2018 07:43 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  Yeah even though girls are crazy and they could ghost for any reason, would they ghost on Leonardo DiCaprio? No. So there is always more you can do to improve and reflect on. I think you have to find a healthy balance between "Everything is my fault." and "Meh, nothing more I could have done, bitches are crazy."

I think that too at times but we truly don't know... maybe they would flake on Leo and bitches indeed be crazy.

Post: #23

I think it's because you live in the DC area.

Post: #24

(08-24-2018 08:49 PM)jacknap Wrote:  

(08-24-2018 07:43 PM)RedPillUK Wrote:  Yeah even though girls are crazy and they could ghost for any reason, would they ghost on Leonardo DiCaprio? No. So there is always more you can do to improve and reflect on. I think you have to find a healthy balance between "Everything is my fault." and "Meh, nothing more I could have done, bitches are crazy."

I think that too at times but we truly don't know... maybe they would flake on Leo and bitches indeed be crazy.

Of course some would flake on Leo. Sure he guy gets pulled into cloakrooms to be blown at the drop of a hat, but some chicks (albeit a minority) would not find him attractive, or would be put off by the player vibe, or would be intimidated by his level of celebrity, etc.

Post: #25

(08-23-2018 04:54 PM)Cavorite Wrote:  My last five or so first dates resulted in making out, but then text silence when I try to arrange a second date. I even tried setting up second dates verbally during the first date and still no text reply.

This always happens occasionally, but now it’s basically the most likely outcome of a date. What is the cause/is there anything I can do about it?

Can you give more details, like:

the source of the girls was daygame, nightgame or tinder?

because nightgame girls are by far the flakiest, no matter your behaviour,
because they have too many guys.

also it is relevant their age