Post: #1

So it seems for some reason, lately most of the players / digital nomads I'm following are mostly retiring from the game. They are around the same age as me as well (I'm 32).

After Roosh' announcement of his sabbatical, just yesterday I read Naughty Nomad is distancing himself from game, is in a relationship and focusing on other things http://naughtynomad.com/2018/10/01/brick...n-offline/

Is this starting to be a general trend? At least in my case, I'm starting to feel it too.

I have been location independent for the last 5 years, and traveling almost non stop all this time. More than 60 countries and even higher flags. I really enjoy this lifestyle, but I'm afraid I'm starting to become jaded as well. I see all of my friends marrying (all of them are standard blue pill betas though), and with these "legends" retiring / settling down too, I'm starting to question if it's time to hang the hat and "grow up".

I have also been avidly reading the "older guys" thread going on in the forum, and I get the same general feeling. Most older guys are looking for a LTR with a good woman, and most of the ones in the game at 40+ are because they recently came out from a bad relationship, not because they have been living the player lifestyle non-stop since their 20s.

Myself, I have been in 3 RTLs in the past, two of them living together, and they didn't work out (they tried to control me too much, and I could not maintain frame, the disrespect started, and eventually the only option to keep my sanity and self-respect was to break up and leave. Luckily no kids). After this experiences, I was absolutely sure a life-long relation was not for me, and I went on my life of travel and mini-RTLs and FWBs (I have had very few ONS as I don't really enjoy them).

Of course I still enjoy new pussy, the thrill of the game. But at the same time, I'm reaching an age when I know it will only take more effort to get less results as time goes by, and also I have done sexually absolutely everything I wanted to so I don't see the same allure as in my twenties. And I think now that I'm older, at what I believe is the peak of my value and with more experience, I will be able to maintain frame in a RTL in a more effortless / natural way and not have failed relationships as in the past.

Due to my current situation I have quite many options if I want to settle down, and actually have a few chicks chasing me with this clear intention, including a very sweet and cute 19yo Iranian virgin that is currently at the top of my list.

I'm still ambivalent on marriage and children though.


What do you guys think?

Post: #2

Go for a LTR with atleast a slightly religious chick. Girls who believe in god are the best ones,the bible and islam teaches girls to be submissive to their husbands, i believe part of the reasons girls have turned toxic in the west is due to lack of faiths/beliefs/culture and tradition we have simply forgotten to live by code wich is very important to keep things in check

Post: #3

(10-03-2018 05:35 PM)zamfir112 Wrote:  Go for a LTR with atleast a slightly religious chick. Girls who believe in god are the best ones,the bible and islam teaches girls to be submissive to their husbands, i believe part of the reasons girls have turned toxic in the west is due to lack of faiths/beliefs/culture and tradition we have simply forgotten to live by code wich is very important to keep things in check

That makes sense...but in reality, Bible Belt girls have the same divorce rates as other Western women. Most american "Christian" women aren't overly Christian, they're Churchian - they hang out at church as a social club a lot, use it as an excuse to feel superior to people, but do a piss poor job of following the teachings of Jesus.

Post: #4

The difference btw 32 and mid-40s is night and day. Which is not to say don't have an LTR with a good woman, but what you want and what you think you want will definitely change over the next 10 years. In some cases, dramatically.

Post: #5

(10-03-2018 05:35 PM)zamfir112 Wrote:  Go for a LTR with atleast a slightly religious chick. Girls who believe in god are the best ones,the bible and islam teaches girls to be submissive to their husbands, i believe part of the reasons girls have turned toxic in the west is due to lack of faiths/beliefs/culture and tradition we have simply forgotten to live by code wich is very important to keep things in check

I'm atheist and I'm not sure I could stand a LTR with an overtly religious woman.

This Iranian girl is Muslim from a quite religious family, but she is actually atheist herself (of course in Iran everyone is officially Muslim, just like officially there are no homosexuals haha)

Still she believes in being virgin before marriage. So I think it might be a good combination: she had a traditional upbringing, of which some irremediably stuck in her psyche as she grew up, but is intelligent enough to not believe in religious nonsense.

Post: #6

I was in a similar situation a little over ten years ago. Was single and tired of the grind even though I was getting a relatively steady stream of notches. Found a solid chick with good morals and strong family ties to settle down with. I did not get married nor did we have any kids. She didn’t want them and I have an older kid from a relationship in the 90’s. Fast forward to 12-13 years later and there’s no way I can stay away from other pussy. No. Way. She’s still good to me, submissive, does whatever I want but there’s nothing like novelty. So my advice would be to try an LTR but maybe keep it open and under no certain terms should you marry. I think you’re in for a big surprise when you wake up after a few years with same girl and get the itch again. It. Never. Leaves. So please be careful, don’t marry and stay w her for a long time before kids. Or, be ready for a statistically high probability that you’ll be divorce raped and lose half of your income and assets. I like Blackdragon’s take on OLTRs. Having been divorce raped in my early twenty’s (had to pay almost 40% of net income to baby mamma for 18 years and never got to see my kid. Back in the 90s.) I have a strong aversion to contractual agreements where I have everything to lose. Sorry to be a downer. Want you to make sure you know what can happen.

Peace.

Post: #7

There are a lot of guys in the over 40 thread who have been married and have kids, and don't want a LTR.

Is a myth that men don't have a biological clock. Even today, most men lose their friends to marriage. They feel the pressure.

Only you can decide what is best for you. But marriage as an institution, especially in the West, is stacked against men. Its basically saying to a woman, I bet you half of everything I own that you will love me forever. Its unconscionable. But if you want to have children, which is a normal human desire, its very difficult to avoid.

If you are really at this crossroads, the only thing I can recommend is to talk to a lot of men who have been divorced. And read Harry Browne's book, "How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World." Harry was a famous libertarian and friend of Doug Casey. Harry was the perenial Presidential nominee of the Libertarian Party back when that would be spoken of as an honor among Libertarians.

Post: #8

(10-03-2018 05:19 PM)modernist Wrote:  Myself, I have been in 3 RTLs in the past, two of them living together, and they didn't work out (they tried to control me too much, and I could not maintain frame, the disrespect started, and eventually the only option to keep my sanity and self-respect was to break up and leave.

///

Due to my current situation I have quite many options if I want to settle down, and actually have a few chicks chasing me with this clear intention, including a very sweet and cute 19yo Iranian virgin that is currently at the top of my list.

I'm still ambivalent on marriage and children though.

///

What do you guys think?

I think it could be a repeat of everything that's already happened but you'll see things coming before they happen due to being more experienced. You will settle down for a while, it'll go stale for reasons and you'll want some freedom again.

If you're really not after marriage or children then you are simply after companionship. Maybe what you're lacking is somewhere to call home?

Post: #9

Im north of 50 and tend to prefer LTRs, because Its a lot of work chasing pussy and the juice is mostly not worth the squeeze.

Being older the fascination with that fold of skin drops, and you start to look at other attributes of the woman... like pleasantness, conversation and positivity (all things lacking in hot young things)

I find the sex better in a mature LTR - training new pussy is a chore, I like things my way and when I get it I am happy for that over "variety"

Having said that, the game never stops and you need to maintain frame, and as such I have been through dozens of women, all LTRS when they cross the line that are nexted.

Post: #10

(10-03-2018 06:35 PM)Hypno Wrote:  There are a lot of guys in the over 40 thread who have been married and have kids, and don't want a LTR.

Is a myth that men don't have a biological clock. Even today, most men lose their friends to marriage. They feel the pressure.

Only you can decide what is best for you. But marriage as an institution, especially in the West, is stacked against men. Its basically saying to a woman, I bet you half of everything I own that you will love me forever. Its unconscionable. But if you want to have children, which is a normal human desire, its very difficult to avoid.

If you are really at this crossroads, the only thing I can recommend is to talk to a lot of men who have been divorced. And read Harry Browne's book, "How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World." Harry was a famous libertarian and friend of Doug Casey. Harry was the perenial Presidential nominee of the Libertarian Party back when that would be spoken of as an honor among Libertarians.

This is solid advice.

I would add, also talk to at least one good divorce/family law attorney. Drop a few hundred and have your eyes opened. Go in with a short explanation of your situation and a list of questions. Often, they can give you some pre-nuptial tips (not the agreement) that will save you massive money and headaches if it goes south.

And, if you are considering marriage, and want to see it last, I would (somewhat reluctantly) consider talking to older married people who have been married for several years. A lot of the literature and the "support groups" for this kind of thing are cucked beyond belief, so you are going to have to be really selective. With that said, I saw a post on the MRP subreddit several months ago about starting up local social groups. I am also passingly familiar with "traditional parenting groups" that exist in the US. Often, these groups are a mix of ultra religious types and secular traditionalists. The latter may be more up your alley.

Post: #11

(10-03-2018 07:21 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Being older the fascination with that fold of skin drops, and you start to look at other attributes of the woman... like pleasantness, conversation and positivity (all things lacking in hot young things)

Post: #12

I think I am going through this stage right now. I am currently in Dominican Republic and I have noticed that I have changed a lot, I am not as hungry for the game like I was years ago, I don't approach as much as I used to, I am mostly focused in working hard and making money (I work online).

Maybe it's just a phase that I am going through but now I am starting to understand old forum members when they say very few could live this lifestyle forever without kids and family.

Post: #13

There doesn't seem to be that much money in this space. It's crowded. The SwoopTheWorld guys also made a cool site, some books, and earned some cash, but not enough to justify keeping at it 100%.

The pie just isn't that big.

Post: #14

(10-03-2018 08:21 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  

(10-03-2018 07:21 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Being older the fascination with that fold of skin drops, and you start to look at other attributes of the woman... like pleasantness, conversation and positivity (all things lacking in hot young things)

Yeah the pleasantness and positivity is what's usually lacking in not quite as hot old things... but it depends on the individual.

Post: #15

(10-03-2018 06:29 PM)Gorgonzola Wrote:  I was in a similar situation a little over ten years ago. Was single and tired of the grind even though I was getting a relatively steady stream of notches. Found a solid chick with good morals and strong family ties to settle down with. I did not get married nor did we have any kids. She didn’t want them and I have an older kid from a relationship in the 90’s. Fast forward to 12-13 years later and there’s no way I can stay away from other pussy. No. Way. She’s still good to me, submissive, does whatever I want but there’s nothing like novelty. So my advice would be to try an LTR but maybe keep it open and under no certain terms should you marry. I think you’re in for a big surprise when you wake up after a few years with same girl and get the itch again. It. Never. Leaves. So please be careful, don’t marry and stay w her for a long time before kids. Or, be ready for a statistically high probability that you’ll be divorce raped and lose half of your income and assets. I like Blackdragon’s take on OLTRs. Having been divorce raped in my early twenty’s (had to pay almost 40% of net income to baby mamma for 18 years and never got to see my kid. Back in the 90s.) I have a strong aversion to contractual agreements where I have everything to lose. Sorry to be a downer. Want you to make sure you know what can happen.

Peace.

So you are in a 12 years LTR and now you started to cheat? Or she knows what is going on and is OK with it? How do you manage it? I really dislike the headaches of cheating. The few occasions I had a harem, all the girls involved knew I was sleeping around with other girls and were OK with that, I just hate mental juggling of cheating and eventual drama.

(10-03-2018 06:35 PM)Hypno Wrote:  There are a lot of guys in the over 40 thread who have been married and have kids, and don't want a LTR.

That's what I was mentioning, that most of the over 40+ that are in the game is mostly because they have been in a bad LTR and just got out recently.

(10-03-2018 06:35 PM)Hypno Wrote:  Is a myth that men don't have a biological clock. Even today, most men lose their friends to marriage. They feel the pressure.

Very true. In my case, it's also applying what I have always thought. I really enjoy seeing women hitting the wall, women that were too good to say "yes" to any man when they were at their peak, and now are basically desperate. They didn't capitalize their peak, or at least not in the right way.

I believe I'm possibly at my peak of value now (I might get higher money / power value in the future, but I don't think better looks than right now, which are important to get younger partners) and it's the time to capitalize on it by choosing the best partner I could get and keep, before it goes downhill.

(10-03-2018 06:35 PM)Hypno Wrote:  Only you can decide what is best for you. But marriage as an institution, especially in the West, is stacked against men. Its basically saying to a woman, I bet you half of everything I own that you will love me forever. Its unconscionable. But if you want to have children, which is a normal human desire, its very difficult to avoid.

I don't want to marry, but if I go for this Iranian girl it's the only option, as for sure I would have to get her out of the country, living in Iran is out of the question. And basically same story for all the other non-EU girls I have in the stack of possibilities.

(10-03-2018 07:04 PM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  I think it could be a repeat of everything that's already happened but you'll see things coming before they happen due to being more experienced. You will settle down for a while, it'll go stale for reasons and you'll want some freedom again.

Perhaps you are right. But in the past my RTLs didn't go stale, they failed more because of my losing of frame and plunging into beta mode, losing the respect the girls had for me. But they were not specially boring or routinary in general.

(10-03-2018 07:04 PM)JackinMelbourne Wrote:  If you're really not after marriage or children then you are simply after companionship. Maybe what you're lacking is somewhere to call home?

About marriage, it's more that I find it unnecessary nowadays, and also stacked against men as frequently mentioned. But I don't really care, if it's needed or very important for my partner, I can get married (after thorough legal advice of course). Children worry me more because there is no way back once you have them, you can't change your mind, and they will condition your life for the next 20+ years. But at the same time I don't want to be a 60yo busted up dude that can't keep up with his 10yo child. So although different than for women, there is also a sort of biological clock ticking.

(10-03-2018 07:21 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  Im north of 50 and tend to prefer LTRs, because Its a lot of work chasing pussy and the juice is mostly not worth the squeeze.

Being older the fascination with that fold of skin drops, and you start to look at other attributes of the woman... like pleasantness, conversation and positivity (all things lacking in hot young things)

I find the sex better in a mature LTR - training new pussy is a chore, I like things my way and when I get it I am happy for that over "variety"

Having said that, the game never stops and you need to maintain frame, and as such I have been through dozens of women, all LTRS when they cross the line that are nexted.

What about children? I think it becomes much harder to maintain frame and next once you have children together. And not good for them anyway.

(10-03-2018 08:27 PM)Spaniard88 Wrote:  There doesn't seem to be that much money in this space. It's crowded. The SwoopTheWorld guys also made a cool site, some books, and earned some cash, but not enough to justify keeping at it 100%.

The pie just isn't that big.

Right, that might be an important factor too for public players retiring / diversifying. Also like what happened to Roosh, it's becoming more and more risky of getting banned from publishing / payment channels.

Post: #16

I am in this same boat. I went down to Nashville, Tennesee this weekend. Digitalnomad was there too. I have let myself go, physically, at one time mentally and maybe, spiritually a lot too. Now, I am in a much better place...attitude wise than I have been in years. I wake up and do not dread things.

But I have become very withdrawn and I enjoy being alone a lot now.

Digitalnomad was at these bars, I showed up...had a beer or two. But I just did not feel like being in the crowd. I would just walk around, take pictures, went fishing on the Cumberland river. Stuck to myself.

I have an interview for a position within my company, next week. I will travel a lot and potentially earn a lot more money...so, I am looking forward to that...if I get the job.

I have been single a long time. The only few women I have slept with recently were just blah. (My fault.) So, I know that my life is in need of a change in direction.

Many people get burnt out. Have regrets...especially during middle age. You feel the time for the Grim Reaper coming soon.

But that does not mean that it is in mine or any one else's destiny to keep heading in this same direction. You can change your situation.

People live, they become older. Times change. Nothing stays the same. And we can get stuck in life. But I know that no matter what happens in life, any one can shake off the limits of the situation that they have put themselves in and live a different life. You just have to ask yourself one thing:

Do you really WANT to?

Post: #17

I was going to write a long post about this. Maybe I will. "The Moody Manifesto".

This is the gist...

- There are still decent women out there, contrary to the game "Bible." They are your nurses, teachers, non-profit workers, etc., who aren't dimes. There is a big range between Instagram model and fat blue haired feminists. Believe it or not, some women are relatively well adjusted and just looking for a stable guy who can dress himself, pay his own bills, own a car, and be a well adjusted human being. They're generally not smoking hot and hanging with Bilzerian, though. They're just normal girls looking for a normal guy. Not every woman is sucking off the DJ in a bathroom.

- The "Playboy Lifestyle" gets boring after awhile. I've been living it since 2013. Big house, nice stuff, cool cars, no kids, no girlfriend, good job (self employed), and money. One girl you connect with is better than 10 you just bang and can't stand. Honestly, I get bored, despite absolute complete freedom. There are days I can literally wake up and do nothing without any consequence.

- What is the point of all this? Notch count? Does 100 notches get you a 1up? Or would you rather start a family with someone you care about, who cares about you? I can't answer that. It's your life, live it however you want to.

- In my personal opinion, self improvement is vastly more fulfilling than banging women. I'll gladly take another 5lbs of fat loss than a bang any day, or some new moves at jiu jitsu class while dating a woman I actually enjoy hanging out with. Validation through notch count gets boring and meaningless. But that's just my opinion.

- Traveling is cool. It's worth doing. Just don't do it for the sake of notch count. It is also tough to do if you're in a business like I am that requires a lot of personal and local attention. I can't travel across the country every month because I have to be in court, in Philadelphia, often. Physically. It's part of the job. I wish I could just outsource everything and spend my life writing emails on the beach. But it doesn't work like that.

- You can have women friends without being a beta orbiter. Women who you talk to, email, text, without trying to bang. I have a lot of women friends and they're all cool. I'm not into them, sometimes they're into me, but I keep things casual and cool. They are usually a good source of meeting other chicks.

- You do not need to bang every woman on the first date, and next her if you don't. A lot of my longest term relationships started with three dates. Enjoy the ride, enjoy your time, enjoy the meal, and enjoy her company. As a lover of country music, this is good advice:

"Who knows where this road is supposed to lead
We got nothing but time
As long as you're right here next to me, everything's gonna be alright
If it's meant to be, it'll be, it'll be
...
So, won't you ride with me, ride with me?
See where this thing goes
If it's meant to be, it'll be, it'll be"

I'm not saying to eschew game or just go back blue pill, it's just that the red pill isn't the prescription for total happiness and fulfillment, either.

I'm not really sure what is.

What I can tell you is to enjoy the ride and have fun with it.

Post: #18

Nobody needs to bang more than 40 women in their lifetime.
In fact, probably more than 10 is just repeating yourself, women aren't all that different from each other.

Post: #19

In ancient societies it was normal for young people to have children while the wise elders raised them. This is where "it takes a village to raise a child" comes from. The young adults were spared from the child raising and were allowed to pursue their dreams and passions. This societal setup makes sense because a young person raising a kid is like a kid raising a kid. And thus "the sins of the father is passed on to the son".

In modern society it is expected that you raise your own children no matter how young and dumb you are. Incidentally, this setup started at the same time the kings created the institution of marriage and had the church ordained it. Kings created marriage to keep a monopoly on the women. It was created so one peasnt could only have one wife.

Even though this setup was flawed (people fall out of pairbonding, kids raising kids), it's the family structure we know today. The elderly are kicked aside and put into homes where they spend their time playing bingo.

Incidentally, this family structure is why sex became a cultural taboo. Society did not want 14 year olds having babies because they were responsible for raising them. So laws were created. You have to be 18 to do adult things. The age of consent doesn't even exist in countries where the village and elderly still raise children.

In modern society, you still have guys thinking that marriage is some god ordained thing. It's a made up institution that's outdated. Combine that with Hollywood romantic brainwashing and you have the modern day simp.

Alot of guys who don't believe in marriage but want kids don't know where they belong. Our current society is not set up for guys like us. It is set up for women who want kids out of wedlock. If they have kids, they and the kids are taken cared of. If we have kids, we have to take care of everything from the kid to the mother and her lavish lifestyle plus lose visitation rights.

Even male celebrities don't know how to cheat the system. There is no way you can win. It is rigged that way.

Incidentally, many Asian cultures still practice the village raises a child paradigm.

As a 34 year old man, if I have a kid or get married, I am going to lose all of my assets or spend the rest of my life paying for it. And I am jaded when it comes to the game.

Hence the sabbatical/retirement/ other pursuits.

We are simply not living in a system that is conducive for 30 something year old men to be happy with women and children. We are the main source of funding the expenses of single mothers and kids.

When the game isn't as exciting anymore, and you don't want to sign a bad contract, what do you do?

If I could have kids and funnel them to the elders of my family and not have to worry about child support, I would have like 10 by now.

Incidentally women can have kids, funnel them to day care and the system, and not have to worry about child support. They get tax credits. Thats why there are so many single moms with multiple kids with multiple fathers. They get to have their cake and eat it too with barely a responsibility.

I honestly believe the government purposely made it this way because they know the men are the main source of funding. If they split it even, women would fall apart on their own and the whole system would crumble. But now that women are taken care of in every area, what incentive do they have to stay in the kitchen and stay loyal?

In 2018, the American woman has more incentive to surround herself with male orbiters, sleep around, monkey branch, and be a complete Trainwreck attention whore (society encourages it) then to stay faithful to little ol you. Unless we are talking about 6s with flat asses and little options.

Post: #20

@Hank Moody

Good post. My thoughts are normally like a box of rocks bouncing around in my head. And typing them in a coherent matter is not much different.

But I agree with you 100%. Life is not all dark, doom and gloom. I have met some good women. And many of them are normally not the model type. Plane/average is ok too. Especially if you are 40 and you are dating 26-31 year olds.

A good personality, decent body and average face is not so bad.

Post: #21

I'm not even that old (32) and I've only slept with around 50'ish women but even I feel less of a desire to have casual sex.

I want a ltr but I also know that I would really struggle just fucking one woman for the rest of my life (even though I don't crave casual sex like I used to).

Post: #22

I always read the 40+ game thread and it’s very interesting to hear those guys real life experiences on this. What I see is that the men who have never had kids or settled down talk about desiring that and they feel like something is missing. Meanwhile the men who have been married with family almost always say hell no! It doesn’t work. She will lose respect for you, stop fucking you, it’s a soul sucking trap that you can’t get out of etc... at best some men say that it can be fulfilling but it is a ton of work, commitment and compromise and you will lose sexual attraction for your wife.
I have never read or heard of a man saying that mairrage completed him and filled him with joy and he loves his wife as much as ever and can’t get enough of her sweet ass.
What does this mean? I don’t know.

Post: #23

(10-04-2018 02:01 AM)Luther Wrote:  What does this mean? I don’t know.

That the grass is always greener on the other side ...

Post: #24

It is your perspective of something, that makes you see it that way. Not how something actually is. It is your thinking.

Post: #25

I've been there, but then I go outside and see all the young, vibrant girls and realize I'll never make a good husband.