Post: #26

If the dude pulled a gun on a cop, he's a fucking idiot plain and simple.

Cops have had a history of profiling minorities (part of feels like there's a reason for this and I'm a minority also).

Yes the police are becoming more militarized, Yes the police will protect their own under the blue shield, and they'll never cross their brothers and cross the blue line.

Post: #27

(12-24-2014 11:25 AM)JoyStick Wrote:  Why would he pull his gun out if he didn't fear for his life.

If I think there a chance I might die anyways, I'm going to go out blasting!

Of course the cops are going to twist the story in their favor.

Quote:I just want to remind you guys we are just hearing one side of the story and not to jump to conclusions.

Yeah, no contradiction there...

Post: #28

(12-24-2014 11:31 AM)Badamson Wrote:  Some people are thugs and murderers.

Agreed. Fortunately I can make good choices to live in areas that minimize my interaction with these types of people. Unfortunately, there are times when some of these thugs get jobs with badges, cool cars and sweet ass boots.

(12-24-2014 11:32 AM)Vigo_the_Carpathian Wrote:  The difference is that in this case, there's a surveillance video of the incident:

LINK TO YOUTUBE

A little tough to see; apparently the cop had a body camera (but not on him) and had his dashboard cam turned off. Despite that level of idiocy, he was saved by this camera...

...and there were STILL protests...

If concrete, video evidence of what happened isn't enough for some people, I'm not sure what the solution is, outside of letting both sides "have at it" once and for all, Highlander-style...

Vigo

That security video looks like the guy was pointing a gun, however, I wouldn't say it is concrete. It could be a gun, it could be a hand, it could be a Charleston Chew. I am always suspicious when I hear things like this... "the cop had a body camera (but not on him) and had his dashboard cam turned off."

I am not going to jump to conclusions at this time.

Post: #29

I have a question. On Twitter, part of the outrage about this newest case is directed at his body being "left on the concrete for 2 hours", and that no ambulance was called. That was one of the rallying cries from the previous Ferguson incident also. I'm legitimately curious what the standard protocol is for the removal of a body from a crime scene. Does a certain amount of evidence have to be gathered before the body can be taken away? Or is there a real gripe to be had with the way this was handled as far as medical care, etc? Anyone know what the protocol is to be for things like this?

Post: #30

Maybe I'm blind, but I watched the video and I have a hard time even identifying who the suspect is, let alone what is he doing and how it ends. Is there a zoomed in version or something?

Post: #31

(12-24-2014 11:51 AM)Lemmo Wrote:  

(12-24-2014 11:25 AM)JoyStick Wrote:  Why would he pull his gun out if he didn't fear for his life.

If I think there a chance I might die anyways, I'm going to go out blasting!

Of course the cops are going to twist the story in their favor.

Quote:I just want to remind you guys we are just hearing one side of the story and not to jump to conclusions.

Yeah, no contradiction there...

I wasn't saying he was definitely protecting himself and is innocent. I was just "thinking out loud" in that first post and putting myself in the situation.

Post: #32

Why riot over this though? I also want to know why he was aiming a gun at a cop. That video shown is almost impossible to see due to the location of the cop car in the frame, your practically looking at ants.

When posted the uk was the most objective looking report, the other two were huffington post and buzzfeed. SJW central.

Post: #33

(12-24-2014 11:58 AM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

(12-24-2014 11:31 AM)Badamson Wrote:  Some people are thugs and murderers.

Agreed. Fortunately I can make good choices to live in areas that minimize my interaction with these types of people. Unfortunately, there are times when some of these thugs get jobs with badges, cool cars and sweet ass boots.

I agree. That's why I'm all for white "thug" cops being removed from those areas and instead we just allow the people in their own communities to police themselves by others whom they trust and can't accuse of racism.

In fact we'll even put up walls around our own non-black communities to keep them out, so they can't come in and be exploited, oppressed and/or killed by militarized racist thug cops.

Post: #34

(12-24-2014 09:48 AM)The Reactionary Tree Wrote:  

(12-24-2014 09:47 AM)Pride male Wrote:  Seriously, what is going on in America with this cop shit? Is it grossly exaggerated or is it really racist cops running around beating minorities?

It's not a cop problem.

It is not exclusively a cop problem, however the cops are part of the problem. It is a government problem, a system problem. The Garner killing encapsulates the problem perfectly in my opinion. . . . Too many laws, too many regulations, too much taxation and cops are used to enforce those rules by any means necessary. The police serve the state and the states interest. The police do not serve the citizens, in fact they have no duty to protect the average Joe and they have no accountability to the average Joe, just to the state.

Post: #35

(12-24-2014 11:59 AM)Socrates Wrote:  I have a question. On Twitter, part of the outrage about this newest case is directed at his body being "left on the concrete for 2 hours", and that no ambulance was called. That was one of the rallying cries from the previous Ferguson incident also. I'm legitimately curious what the standard protocol is for the removal of a body from a crime scene. Does a certain amount of evidence have to be gathered before the body can be taken away? Or is there a real gripe to be had with the way this was handled as far as medical care, etc? Anyone know what the protocol is to be for things like this?

Could be, because it is now a crime/investigation scene.

Also with those rioters there and groups standing around and yelling, they might not of wanted to bring a coroner or paramedics in.

Post: #36

(12-24-2014 11:58 AM)IvanDrago Wrote:  

(12-24-2014 11:31 AM)Badamson Wrote:  Some people are thugs and murderers.

Agreed. Fortunately I can make good choices to live in areas that minimize my interaction with these types of people. Unfortunately, there are times when some of these thugs get jobs with badges, cool cars and sweet ass boots.

(12-24-2014 11:32 AM)Vigo_the_Carpathian Wrote:  The difference is that in this case, there's a surveillance video of the incident:

LINK TO YOUTUBE

A little tough to see; apparently the cop had a body camera (but not on him) and had his dashboard cam turned off. Despite that level of idiocy, he was saved by this camera...

...and there were STILL protests...

If concrete, video evidence of what happened isn't enough for some people, I'm not sure what the solution is, outside of letting both sides "have at it" once and for all, Highlander-style...

Vigo

That security video looks like the guy was pointing a gun, however, I wouldn't say it is concrete. It could be a gun, it could be a hand, it could be a Charleston Chew. I am always suspicious when I hear things like this... "the cop had a body camera (but not on him) and had his dashboard cam turned off."

I am not going to jump to conclusions at this time.

Fair enough--I'm not a huge fan of cops generally, either. But the guy who was shot was found with a 9 mm "on him" with the serial number filed off. Maybe this cop is a total racist asshole like Mark Furman who runs around planting untraceable guns on guys who pull Charleston Chews on him. I doubt it, but who knows?

LINK TO ST LOUIS PAPER STORY
(Surprisingly fair in this instance for a notoriously liberal paper)

Relevant excerpts:

Quote:The officer's attorney, Brian Milliken, said one of the men spoke with the officer, while the other kept wandering away despite the officer's commands to stay near him, Milliken said.

One of the individuals "produced a pistol with his arm straight out, pointing it straight at the officer kind of from across the hood," Belmar said.

At that point, the chief said, the officer got his handgun, "and fired what we think is three shots." Belmar said one round struck the suspect, Antonio D. Martin, 18, and one struck a tire of the police car. Police said they did not immediately know where the third round went.

The officer, who is 34 and white, is a six-year veteran of the department, Belmar said. He was placed on investigative leave, which is standard.

Milliken said his client recounted the details to him several hours after the shooting.

"The other guy was doing the talking, and as the cop starts talking, the suspect starts walking away again," Milliken said. "At that point, the cop says, 'Hey, come back here,' and he turns around, pulls a gun from his left pant pocket."

"He's trying to process all of this, and the suspect raises it, points it at him. The cop pulls his weapon and starts backpedaling and fired three or four shots. It happened that quickly. He doesn't understand why the suspect's gun didn't fire. I'm not sure if he tried to pull the trigger and it jammed."

Milliken said it's possible that his client was being set up for an ambush. Store employees called 911 after the suspects stole from the store, Milliken said.

"Their behavior is certainly bizarre, and it wouldn't surprise me at all, in the environment we are in, that's for sure," Milliken said.

Milliken would not comment on why his client was not wearing his body camera at the time of the shooting, "There could be some internal issues," he said. He added that he was glad the incident was captured by surveillance cameras.

"Having video really helps in this situation because it puts to rest all of the false narratives that would be out there," he said.

He did not reveal his client's name. "It doesn't do anything but subject him to threats and puts him and his family in harm," he said.

Millken said his client was calm, but shaken.

"On the one hand, you know you have followed proper procedures and policies, and, on the other hand, these guys are human beings, and on the day before Christmas, he had to take somebody's life," Milliken said. "He's no different than anyone else involved in the situation. It's a traumatic experience and something he'll be doing a lot of reflecting on for the rest of his life.

"He did certainly express remorse that the situation happened at all."

Quote:From the videotape released by St. Louis County Police and Belmar's description, the officer was near the front driver's side of the vehicle and Martin was on the other side, near the car's headlights, when the shooting occurred. Police first said the officer was making a routine business check when the shooting happened; Belmar later said he was responding to a stealing call.

As the officer pointed his gun, he was backing away and lost his balance, Belmar said. As he fell, he dropped his flashlight and fired his weapon.

Martin was pronounced dead at the scene by EMS units. Berkeley police called the county's crimes against persons unit at 11:45 p.m., and they arrived at the scene at 12:15 a.m., Belmar said.

The body, which was covered and concealed from the crowd by a partition, was removed from the scene at 1:40 a.m., Belmar said.

He also said the 9 mm gun found on the suspect had five rounds in the magazine and one round in the chamber. He said the gun's serial number had been filed off.

Police confirmed Martin's name later Wednesday morning. Belmar said he had a criminal record, with charges including three assaults, armed robbery, armed criminal action and multiple uses of weapons since he was 17.

A woman at the scene overnight, Toni Martin-Green, confirmed the victim was her son.

Police said they did not know who the second person was, but they called him a "person of interest" and asked for the public's help to find him.

They said two bystanders on the Mobil parking lot were witnesses.

At a news conference later Wednesday morning, Berkeley Mayor Theodore Hoskins said, "You can't compare this to Ferguson or the Garner case in New York." He said the videotape showed Martin pointing a gun at the officer. He said the city would conduct its own complete investigation, separate from the St. Louis County Police investigation.

"Our overall goal is to project the truth to residents," Hoskins said.

Quote:Belmar said he notified St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch of the shooting, and McCulloch assigned a prosecutor to the case.

An estimated 200 to 300 protesters gathered at the scene after the shooting, and conflicts broke out between officers and protesters, Belmar said.

Four people were arrested for assaulting officers, and at least one officer was injured when he tried to get away from some sort of firework device set off on the parking lot, Belmar said.

Protesters also threw bricks at officers, Belmar said. Police used pepper spray on the crowd but did not use any tear gas, the chief said.

He said several police cars were damaged, and some protesters brought bags of rocks to the scene.

As for suggestions that the officer should have used a Taser instead of his gun, Belmar said: "Frankly that's unreasonable." The officer had a body camera issued to him at the start of his shift, but he was not wearing it. The car's dash-camera was not activated.

The suspect could have complied with the officer, but made "bad choices" instead, Belmar said.

Belmar said he did not know if the stealing call involved the the suspect or the second man.

Quote:Antonio Martin's extended family was in shock early Wednesday, as they waited for details to unfold about the fatal shooting.

"This doesn't make any sense for them to kill my son like this," Toni Martin-Green said early Wednesday from her home near the University of Missouri-St. Louis campus. "I am trying to be calm."

Martin was the oldest of four children born to her and Jerome Green.

"He's like any other kid who had dreams or hopes," said Green. "We loved being around him. He'd push a smile out of you."

Green described his son as a "follower" who took medication for being hyperactive.

"It was hard for him to focus," Green said.

"He was not a violent person, to our knowledge," he added. "Around us there weren't any pistols. It's hard to believe that."

His grandmother, Margret Chandler, was also in disbelief.

"When he was around me, he knew to do right," she said. "Why would he pull out a gun against the police? That's the thing I don't get. It just doesn't add up."

Note a few things:

-They mention security cameras captured the incident. This one angle is the one being released by the cops right now. Maybe he misspoke, but there might be a "better" angle of this yet to be released.

-Cops think it may have been an ambush. Not so sure about this--seems like them projecting a bit.

-The dad, "He wasn't a violent person to our knowledge. Around us, there weren't any pistols." Qualifying language, despite the guy's previous weapons and assault charges.

Obviously, it's sad that this guy pulled a gun on a cop right before Christmas and paid for it dearly. The lesson remains: don't pull a gun on a cop. It's the quickest way to get shot repeatedly in modern America, hence all of the guys committing "suicide by cop." It's that well known that you'll be shot if you brandish a gun at the police that guys do it specifically to kill themselves.

Bad shit, all around...

Vigo

Post: #37

(12-24-2014 10:55 AM)TheBMan Wrote:  Look, I'm your typical urban white collar white guy. I've been arrested a few times in my day and have had more then my fair share of run ins with the cops. Nothing overly serious, some alcohol related and/or driving stuff. If you think that the cops come strolling up to a guy like me because I am white and say "howdy there fine sir has is your evening going?" you're nuts. If you talk shit to cops and antagonize them they will make your life miserable whether you are white or black. If you physically threaten them you will get your ass kicked. If you put their life in danger you very well might get killed, whether you are a white frat boy or black thug. If you pull guns on them, or try and take their guns, you might get shot. If you don't want to get shot, don't to those things, whether you are white or black. Its pretty much that simple and ignorant to not realize that.

Yes but there are some that are preaching BLACK SUPREMACY. Basically when a white guy gets killed by a cop or anyone else it isn't racism. But when a black guy gets killed by a cop it is racism.

Rudolph Guiliani had a good interview stating how it is. Blacks mostly kill blacks..but that doesn't cause a riot. Cops are mostly visible in the black areas because that is where they are killing each other.

Lets not forget it isn't only death by cops. Their were riots because of violence that was done to a black person by Jews in Crown heights years ago.

What they don't tell you is that the religious Jews are victimized by blacks on a regular basis but that they don't riot..or not as much.

Asians are victimized as well. Remember a black person can live safely in a mostly White area. A white guy will get his ass kicked, cursed at, etc if he lives in a Black area.

But who is fueling this BLACK SUPREMACY? The lawyers and other politicians that have a gripe.

When Italians, Irish, Jews and other play the same game..then maybe it will stop or at least we will have have a good Sunday night movie!


And yes this is similar to feminism. Drunk girl can get a drunk guy in trouble for having sex with her . Why can't drunk guy use the same defense?

Quote:Also with those rioters there and groups standing around and yelling, they might not of wanted to bring a coroner or paramedics in.

Can you blame them? EMS and FD constantly get shot at when they go to certain areas or types of jobs. I know some EMS that wear bullet resistant vests.

As for the guy that said SUICIDE BY COP....BINGO! Even the guy who killed the 2 cops is an example of this. He must have known he would die.

Real militants who are looking to execute cops will do it from far away and try to remain unknown. Then a group will claim responsibility.

This is why the unions are holding Mayor and media responsible. An environment has been created where losers with a death wish can get fame/recognition on their way out. Reminds me of the kids that go to school and shoot people knowing they are going to be killed.

Btw the parents and neighbors MOSTLY say 'he was a nice guy', 'hE is an angel" so lets roll eyes here. Serial killers have the same fans.

Quote:If the dude pulled a gun on a cop, he's a fucking idiot plain and simple.

Or if he did it to anyone who they suspected might be armed. In a Punisher comic book they had a story where a street thug tried to rob the Punisher. I think we all agree that would be a death wish.

Quote:it's sad that this guy pulled a gun on a cop right before Christmas and paid for it dearly.

Huh? So it would make you feel better if it was January 10th? And why is it sad a guy got killed who carries illegal guns with serial numbers scratched off and go around pulling the gun at cops and most likely other people?

believe it or not there are many Americans that have nothing to do with law enforcement that is sick and tired of tax payers supporting a prison population of hardened prisoners who just get MORE hard in prison and a vicious cycle repeats it self.

The real victim is the cop that now has to live with the fact that he just entered the 1% of cops that actually ever have to shoot someone and many will/might get injured in the resulting shit storm that comes.

My bad I didn't realize you were that evil bastard from Ghostbusters 2 Vigo_the_Carpathian ..so merry christmas !

Post: #38

There is some serious F Grade stupidity from the SJW's on Twiiter. Like this one. Really? If someone points a gun at me. Im not shooting at thier hand.

Post: #39

The level of stupidity of this whole thing kicking off around the USa can be summed up in a couple of things.

- People take advantage and loot businesses
- Morons with single digit IQ points set off fireworks on gas station forecourts with 100+ people around.

Is this the USA people want?

Post: #40

(12-24-2014 02:10 PM)Foolsgo1d Wrote:  The level of stupidity of this whole thing kicking off around the USa can be summed up in a couple of things.

- People take advantage and loot businesses
- Morons with single digit IQ points set off fireworks on gas station forecourts with 100+ people around.

Is this the USA people want?

The more this shit goes on and the SJW's keep supporting the criminals the faster the majority will see just how fucked up they are.

Post: #41

3... 2... 1... Jariel...

Post: #42

Yes, true. But at what point could you consider the masses removing such a problem? A major war would do little for the USA in terms of getting the best to rise to the top.

Post: #43

Quote:A little tough to see; apparently the cop had a body camera (but not on him) and had his dashboard cam turned off. Despite that level of idiocy, he was saved by this camera..

Depends. I am not familiar to what was the reason the incident took place. camera's are usually not 24/7. They are turned on when a cop does a car stop so there is a visual of what transpires.

But on dash camera's..I support them and cars should all have them but I must warn you guys that be careful of what you wish for.

Reality check: cops don't ticket MOST people they stop, despite some of the ignorance out there. When they use dash cameras discretion goes out the door.

Since their boss is watching them..who wants them to give tickets, those cops will write almost 100% of those they pull over. They aren't going to get in trouble by their boss for letting you go.

You will get a ticket even if your rushing your pregnant wife to the hospital. If you don't believe me just think about it. The biggest hard asses are state troopers and highway dept's who usually have the cameras. Virginia troops ticket everyone I hear. Reason is because they have the cameras.


Who thinks that if they took away public housing , food stamps and welfare that crime would increase/ or would these people be forced to get off the street corners and actually get a job?

Maybe they cant riot and protest because they have to be at work or their boss would fire them. Most at Maiden were unemployed bums btw!

Post: #44

Cop fucked up by not having his cam on. But the vid clearly shows his arm outstretched as if he were holding a gun.

After all that's happened this year, do you really think a cop would execute an unarmed black man for no good reason?

Post: #45

at :48 the gun is shown, http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/24/justice/mi...?hpt=hp_c2

Post: #46

Quote:I'm legitimately curious what the standard protocol is for the removal of a body from a crime scene.

Two weeks ago a neighborhood drunk with a history for pointing his gun at people in bars was causing a scene at our local watering hole. We live/grew up in an all white working class neighborhood and this bar is all cops, vets, firemen, etc.

Long story short, this guy came across the bar and pushes my buddy, trying to start a fight. He then decides to pull out his gun and he shoots my buddy point blank in the stomach. Within seconds of shooting my buddy, an off-duty unloaded his .45 on the assailant and he was dead as a door knob probably when he hit the floor.

To answer your question... The police locked down everyone that was in the bar -probably 10-15 men, turned the smoking lamp on, and ordered everyone pizza while they conducted interviews. The shooter was laying dead on the bar floor the entire night.

Off topic, but always have your guard up. You never know.

Post: #47

(12-24-2014 02:10 PM)Clemmo Wrote:  There is some serious F Grade stupidity from the SJW's on Twiiter. Like this one. Really? If someone points a gun at me. Im not shooting at their hand.

Yeah she is a stupid bitch. Did anyone call her out?

Cops are trained to STOP NOT immobilize. Stop means center of mass.

Shoot someone in the leg and they can still fire off their gun.

Plus what about the innocent bystander who gets hit 200 ft away because the bullet went though the perps hand/leg?

Reality is only the top competitive shooters can even shoot a small moving target with a handgun..so it is unrealistic . Most cops at the range would miss half their shots at such a small target stationary. Imagine a moving one!

Sad..she kind of cute ;(

Quote: He then decides to pull out his gun and he shoots my buddy point blank in the stomach.

What happened to your friend? Stomach wounds suck!

Post: #48

(12-24-2014 02:10 PM)Clemmo Wrote:  There is some serious F Grade stupidity from the SJW's on Twiiter. Like this one. Really? If someone points a gun at me. Im not shooting at thier hand.

All cops should be like wild west circus shooters able to bounce a tin can in the air with 6 rounds. The person you quoted is a fucking moron. Shooting to wound is not only impractical but impossible because people can easily bleed out from a shoulder wound or die quickly from shock. That's the whole principle behind lethal force.

Post: #49

(12-24-2014 02:37 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(12-24-2014 02:10 PM)Clemmo Wrote:  There is some serious F Grade stupidity from the SJW's on Twiiter. Like this one. Really? If someone points a gun at me. Im not shooting at thier hand.

All cops should be like wild west circus shooters able to bounce a tin can in the air with 6 rounds. The person you quoted is a fucking moron. Shooting to wound is not only impractical but impossible because people can easily bleed out from a shoulder wound or die quickly from shock. That's the whole principle behind lethal force.

Read my above post...it says the other problems with her stupid idea. But she is bangeable so i might pretend to support her views to get close to her. OH WAIT! Isn't that the plot of beta guys who pretend to be liberal feminists?

Is her major the 'Philosophy of Women studies' by chance?

Post: #50

(12-24-2014 01:44 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  Huh? So it would make you feel better if it was January 10th? And why is it sad a guy got killed who carries illegal guns with serial numbers scratched off and go around pulling the gun at cops and most likely other people?

believe it or not there are many Americans that have nothing to do with law enforcement that is sick and tired of tax payers supporting a prison population of hardened prisoners who just get MORE hard in prison and a vicious cycle repeats it self.

Fair enough, and a good question to boot. I'm just not to the point where I celebrate a person's death, even a piece of shit like this guy apparently was. By all means, I wish we could do something about this fucked-up prison system we have, and maybe it'll be possible to change things over the next couple of decades. I just would like to think that if we could figure out how to turn more gangbangers into Dr. Ben Carson (who was on this road as a kid) instead of this idiot, we'd be a lot better off as a society.

(12-24-2014 01:44 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  The real victim is the cop that now has to live with the fact that he just entered the 1% of cops that actually ever have to shoot someone and many will/might get injured in the resulting shit storm that comes.

No argument from me here--lose-lose for this guy.

(12-24-2014 01:44 PM)jimukr104 Wrote:  My bad I didn't realize you were that evil bastard from Ghostbusters 2 Vigo_the_Carpathian ..so merry christmas !

Eh, just another week closer to New Year's, when the real fun begins ...

Vigo