Post: #26

Its probably never fully explained in most forums because its a complex topic and would take pages to fully cover, but if you want to learn more read up on the "petrodollar", everything you have asked about has been addressed at various places. If I have time later maybe I can post some good links.

Regardless, each country that uses the dollar we lose, another power gains. Every time the demand for dollars goes down, our debts become that much realer, and some other power elsewhere is able to handle their debts better. And this directly correlates with a nations ability to field an army and fight wars. "Building up an army" after a war has been declared is no longer possible in modern wars; the war would be over well before that. (This is another interesting topic to read up on). And guess what, countries who have a lower cost of wages can field a much larger army than we can on a lower budget. Yes, I realize that bigger doesn't always mean better, but again our technological advantage is also attributed to our high military spending, which is supported by the dollars reserve status. So indirectly, if a country stops using the dollar, our army will be diminished to some extent through decreased spending, while another countries military will be boosted.

Sure losing one country may not bring the entire system down, but when planning your countries existance on the scale of decades or centuries in advance, the elites won't give a shit about morals because our enemies won't either. You don't get to be a superpower for an extended period of time without getting your hands dirty.

Post: #27

Ok, so no answer. Let's make the question more direct:

Why does demand necessarily go down if oil is no longer priced in dollars?

I get the whole "we get to print, run, manage our dollar commodity... as long as it lasts" I get that

Obviously from my posts I understand that losing reserve is a big hit. That's what my original post stated. But why is the petrodollar that meaningful given that USA and Canada have like 65% of the world's oil?

Post: #28

(03-05-2017 11:08 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  Ok, so no answer. Let's make the question more direct:

Why does demand necessarily go down if oil is no longer priced in dollars?

I get the whole "we get to print, run, manage our dollar commodity... as long as it lasts" I get that

Obviously from my posts I understand that losing reserve is a big hit. That's what my original post stated. But why is the petrodollar that meaningful given that USA and Canada have like 65% of the world's oil?

Answer: it isn't.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-03...dy-noticed

The reason why it wasn't a big deal is because oil use has flat lined globally. Oil isn't the economic driver it once was and also too because of the US and Canada's oil reserves are helping flip the equation.

Post: #29

(03-05-2017 11:08 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  Ok, so no answer. Let's make the question more direct:

Why does demand necessarily go down if oil is no longer priced in dollars?

think of it like straws on a camel's back. 10 years ago everything in international trade was priced in dollars. the US bought things in dollars, and its trading partners saved those dollars or spent dollars with other non-US dollars.

Slowly the renminbi is replacing that.

when that happens, the dollars that were offshore will come back to the u.s. and buy stuff here, creating inflation. dollars will be worth less.

its the reserve status that is really valuable.

Post: #30

(03-04-2017 07:53 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I'm immediately suspect of any writings from "esteemed" professors of the 20th and 21st century. If anything, their writings are bonafide proof that academia needs a good purging every now and then.

you should investigage who Carrol Quigley was for yourself and not bury your head in the sand.

Post: #31

(03-06-2017 06:18 AM)Hypno Wrote:  

(03-04-2017 07:53 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  I'm immediately suspect of any writings from "esteemed" professors of the 20th and 21st century. If anything, their writings are bonafide proof that academia needs a good purging every now and then.

you should investigage who Carrol Quigley was for yourself and not bury your head in the sand.

I have and I disagree with his premises even though I agree with a great deal on his writings.

The problem academics have is hindsight is always 20/20. Quigly suffers from the typical stuffy over educated pompousness whereby he assumes that his analyses of the past will make his assumptions of the future correct.

People like him and obviously yourself discount the effect of black swans and once in a lifetime sole actors whose actions make significant changes to the status quo.

The people I'm referring to are the Joan of Arcs, Juluis Ceasers, Donald Trumps, Alexander the Greats, Stalins, etc.

You remember them because they completely changed the course of human events. These saviors or destroyers (depending on one's perspective) are only known after the fact where stuffy professors will then have the opportunity to idly write nonessential papers on said individuals.

What I think would be a far more interesting topic of discussion would be to indentify predictions made by academics through the 20th century and see who was right and wrong.

The ironic part is the fiction writers tend to be more on point than these ivory tower loons!

Post: #32

Look - Carroll Quigley was the official historian of the fucking CFR. He reputedly trained CIA and high-intelligence military officers. He was specifically mentioned by Bill Clinton in his inaugural speach after Quigley had written the biggest "conspiracy books" of all time.

And his history books run COMPLETELY COUNTER TO ANYTHING BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOL, in media or academia!

If he were not top-down certified, then he would be called a conspiracy theorist by everyone and would lose his job.

The only reason why they did not promote his work was that they did not agree with it being published. Quigley thought that the globalist money-power driven New World Order and Eyes Wide Shut society was a very good idea and that they do a better job than nationalistic leaders. Obviously the people would not agree and many scientific elite members know that the public would not approve harboring a mindset that creates wars, kills millions, creates financial depressions just for the supposedly "greater good".

The truth is that CARROLL QUIGLEY IS ONE OF THE FEW CRACKS IN THE MATRIX YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE! That is why he is so valuable.

It is as if you have Hillary Clinton speaking out in a bloody interview about all the people she killed and all the bribes she took and all the cons she pulled. It is that big and everyone here should read those 2000 pages - in his 2 books. Couple that with the Reece Commission docs and there is literally nothing that you can afterwards believe about the mainstream.

Your choice then is to either to become a full SJW, deny everything not mainstream or accept it.

Post: #33

(03-06-2017 07:05 AM)Zelcorpion Wrote:  Look - Carroll Quigley was the official historian of the fucking CFR. He reputedly trained CIA and high-intelligence military officers. He was specifically mentioned by Bill Clinton in his inaugural speach after Quigley had written the biggest "conspiracy books" of all time.

And his history books run COMPLETELY COUNTER TO ANYTHING BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOL, in media or academia!

If he were not top-down certified, then he would be called a conspiracy theorist by everyone and would lose his job.

The only reason why they did not promote his work was that they did not agree with it being published. Quigley thought that the globalist money-power driven New World Order and Eyes Wide Shut society was a very good idea and that they do a better job than nationalistic leaders. Obviously the people would not agree and many scientific elite members know that the public would not approve harboring a mindset that creates wars, kills millions, creates financial depressions just for the supposedly "greater good".

The truth is that CARROLL QUIGLEY IS ONE OF THE FEW CRACKS IN THE MATRIX YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE! That is why he is so valuable.

It is as if you have Hillary Clinton speaking out in a bloody interview about all the people she killed and all the bribes she took and all the cons she pulled. It is that big and everyone here should read those 2000 pages - in his 2 books. Couple that with the Reece Commission docs and there is literally nothing that you can afterwards believe about the mainstream.

Your choice then is to either to become a full SJW, deny everything not mainstream or accept it.

So in other words, a deep state crony.



There isn't an " eyes wide shut" society or an elite that operates as a monolithic unit. There are only interests and sometimes those interests fall in a similar place between the different groups of the ultra wealty. Other times they don't. Case in point: Brexit.

I'm about done here debating conspiracy theories. I look forward to the end of US hegemony not occurring. Keep on worrying gents!

Post: #34

@ The Beast

That same writer wrote an article more recently saying the opposite, and how it would have a big impact. Personally I think he makes alot of asumptions and conjectures in his writing which I don't think he sufficiently backs up. It is entertaining to read and gives you more ideas to research yourself, which I think is what he is going for.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-22...etrodollar

@Kid Twist

Because if you don't need dollars to buy oil, you won't have as much of a demand for them. You will demand whatever other currency oil is trading for, increasing that currencies demand.

Post: #35

Also Kid Twist, its not just oil. Oil related products are a huge part of our economy, especially in places like Texas. We sell these products to the rest of the world and make money hand over fist doing so. Its not enough that we produce enough oil to meet our own needs. We need oil that we can refine into other oil related products and sell to other countries.

Post: #36

I'm following, but how much oil do we import that is not our own?

As I said before, very little is Middle Eastern or even Russian. At this point it's almost all in the Americas (70+%).

Post: #37

(03-06-2017 08:05 AM)Repo Wrote:  http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-22...etrodollar

@Kid Twist

I read that two weeks ago. They are I think purposefully unclear about the petrodollar thing in order to make you scared, because they aren't putting anything together --- it's murky with a lot of presumptions, like your ideas as well in this thread.

Your argument is that we are beholden to Saud in some way, and I don't believe we are, nor do I think Trump is unaware. The comment from johngaltfla on that page is what I believe is more likely:

"In the mean time, look for the Trump administration and Congress to promote regulatory and tax reforms which will favor domestic US oil producers thus allowing them to put more oil on the market at a lower cost per barrel than the Saudis could ever dream of. OPEC and the GCC are fucked and Saudi Arabia will continue to have the Houthi destroying their isolated military units in Southwestern Saudi Arabia.

In other words its the House of Saud that's fucked, not us."

Now, I'm just guessing. But my point is, so are you, and like the ZH article neither of your describes anything behind the reasoning that Saud falling really matters. It just takes it for granted and is sensational.

Post: #38

(03-06-2017 07:36 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  [quote='Zelcorpion' pid='1522831' dateline='1488801948']
So in other words, a deep state crony.

that is my point, yes he was a Deep State crony who spilled a lot of their secrets. because he was their crony, he's not a conspiracy theorists but a conspiracy publicist.

Deep State got upset with his book and bought up the printing plates and destroyed them. They also got the publisher to screw him out of royalties on a technicality (difference between out of print and out of stock).

Post: #39

@Kid Twist

Yeah I don't hold alot of weight in those articles. In 2015, the US imported $132.6 billion of crude oil, with Saudi representing $21.7 billion of that. Yes, I admit some of what I write is assumptions. Like I think elites will do whatever is necessary to prop up the dollar as the reserve currency and not let morals chip away it, but no I do not have hard evidence of that, only personal observations of events that have taken place and my interpretation. But I think to be realistic no one has a concrete answer to what you are asking, only theories and conjectures.

Post: #40

Fair enough, we're both (all) trying to understand things as best we can. I appreciate any input and differing opinions.

If we get through June, I'm betting Trump rallies this overvalued market for another 2-3 years, if not longer. So weird, but hey if anyone can do it, he can.